SonOfABirch
New Member
Tesseracts are pretty expensive? You would get on very well with a guy named Greg, your ideas on OP are just as silly as his.
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Thermal Expansion 3.0!!! No More Beta! Thanks KL!
- Thread starter RedBoss
- Start date
Tesseracts are pretty expensive? You would get on very well with a guy named Greg, your ideas on OP are just as silly as his.
My friends CovertJaguar agreed with you ! In last dev change log:
Solid fuel get nerfedLiquid are no valuable fuel
Meaningless change here's why; a 36HP Solid eats 720 charcoal per hour in 1.5, you need 1440 as of this change. I just finished prototyping a charcoal factory that produces about 48,000 charcoal per hour consuming only 1440 of it to keep the entire system completely enclosed, it never needs any outside materials, no human maintience, nothing, I never even have to look at it ever again unlike any Liquid system thus still its still completely superior. Tldr: Under the new solid fuel values it'll cost me 2880 of 48000 charcoal instead to keep the loop running, woop... All he's doing is lagging servers more because its just going to be shuffling around 2x as many items thru networks to keep up.
Edit: Wait a minute... If charcoal was 1600 and is now nerfed to 800, planks are worth 300 and still worth 300 and you get 4 per log which is equal to 1200 its actually 50% more efficient now to just send all your logs->planks->solid boilers... Well that cuts a huge step out of the process! So I guess I now have a Plank Factory that produces 192,000 Planks per hour for solid boiler fuel and at half the MJ cost of the charcoal factory since I can just cut that entire furnace part of it out so i'm now using 3840 planks of 192,000 produced to power it. This is pro balance.
You know, at one point people played this game for fun, before other people started complaining about things being OP, and other people taking a nerf hammer to established mods. All that happens is the enjoyment is reduced and people are less inclined to use those mods or certain aspects of a mod.
Liquid fuels should be better then solid, as you need to put more effort into generating it plus liquid engines/boilers are more expensive then solid. Charcoal is a vanilla OP, purely because of growing time of trees (near instant) - no mod can balance around that.
Liquid fuels should be better then solid, as you need to put more effort into generating it plus liquid engines/boilers are more expensive then solid. Charcoal is a vanilla OP, purely because of growing time of trees (near instant) - no mod can balance around that.
Um... So... how much do the new Portable Tanks hold in them per tier? ExtraUtilities has new Drums type portable tanks that carry 256 buckets, will we get a equal tier or better from TE?
I'm not sure, you'd have to ask sciguyryan, he's the one in possession of the test build. *fistshakes*
The current portable tank in 1.5 stores 8 buckets. It could conceivably be made the lowest tier in TE 3.0, with the next ones going 16, 32, 64. But that's pure speculation on my part.
The current portable tank in 1.5 stores 8 buckets. It could conceivably be made the lowest tier in TE 3.0, with the next ones going 16, 32, 64. But that's pure speculation on my part.
I'm sorry, In fact my plan was to post on Liquid Fuel nerving/raging post.
Is it possible for any of you to reply to someone just posting their opinion without being snide? You want to know what silly is? An item as cheap as a tesseract moving items unlimited distances, for no power at all. I could make a rail system for long distance transport... or just make one inexpensive block and teleport items anywhere. I think when people start using tesseracts to move items within their base, just to reduce cable clutter, then you know they are damn cheap.
I guess people just like taking the easy route and having things handed them. TE rides the line pretty well, but frm what I have seen is the template for how a mod can make a few OP items, buff other things to make things easier than other mods, and have run away success.
And the answer from Lemming is that his liquiducts, for example, are more expensive than waterproof pipes. LOL. With turtles and quarries, you never have to make waterproof pipes. Maybe in a world where people mined by hand it would matter, but with any pack that includes turtles, the cost increase of TE items is not EVEN a speed bump, it does not even exist. Within hours of mining your third diamond for make a mining turtle, the cost of liquiducts vs waterproof pipes isn't even a thought.
Well Zorn, that's a problem with Computer Craft and it's absurdly cheap recipes and the so called "cost" of having to learn LUA. Not a Thermal Expansion issue.
You can't compare the cost of two mods by adding a 3rd mod into the mix. Tesseracts are expensive. Getting ender pearls before the end is not an easy thing unless you build a special mob spawner in the overworld. Theres a risk of death if not careful, and durability loss on tools/armour, plus the time involved. Plus as mentioned many times, you need all the TE machine infrastructure and power in place to make these blocks.
You can't compare the cost of two mods by adding a 3rd mod into the mix. Tesseracts are expensive. Getting ender pearls before the end is not an easy thing unless you build a special mob spawner in the overworld. Theres a risk of death if not careful, and durability loss on tools/armour, plus the time involved. Plus as mentioned many times, you need all the TE machine infrastructure and power in place to make these blocks.
SonOfABirch
New Member
Any of us? Probably. But I tend to reply to silliness with snarky comments, hence my reply to you.
Tesseracts aren't all that cheap you know... and what else does using them cut down on other than clutter? Ah yeah, lag.
Some people might like that... some people like being made to grind for hours on end before they get something of worth, who's right? who knows! But if we take the current meta, we find that TE balances Usefullness with cost quite well.. Especially in regards transport. You require hardened glass to make ANY transport items whatsoever, and that takes at least 3 machines, quite a bit of power, and quite a bit of materials, yet you call them cheap... right, again, whatever you say!
waterproof pipes = 1 glass, 1 piece of waterproofing, 2 ingots/blocks of whatever, let's say gold for 8
liquiduct = hardened glass (=1 lead 2 crushed obsidian) 2 copper ingots for 4
lets say you're using thermal expansion machines only here
smelt 8 cactus, pulverise 1 gold ore, smelt 2 dust and smelt 1 sand= 2 machines and 980MJ (or if you just smelt the 2 gold ore, then it's 860MJ, if you want to make cobble pipes then it's only 480)
now, for liquiducts
pulverise 2 obsidian, pulverise 1 copper ore, smelt 1 lead ore, smelt into hardened glass = 3 machines and 2480MJ
That's almost 2.5 times the price in MJ, more expensive in materials, more expensive in setup and what do you get?
a pipe that more intelligently moves liquids, automatically sucks out (with an RS signal) and reduces lag... and you are LOL'ing at that? That's just silly.
You argue that TE is underpriced/overpowered/whatever... by saying that in a modpack with turtles... it isn't? What?
Why is it so impossible for you to accept that people have different play styles and that "difficulty" is subjective? Not everyone want to play the game the way that you do. I'd honestly delete every mod before I pursued any of the goals you pose on the forums. Which is fine, that's YOUR game.
But seriously, you can't even get a copy of the new TE before you go talking about "balance"? Geez man let us get a copy of the mod first. Also, teleportation allows for less lag. That's a huge deal when people can crash a server when a pipe's is unloaded and entities spill everywhere.
So please don't get my nice thread locked. It has nice vids and people with test copies are posting nice preview pics. I REALLY like that fact. I REALLY don't want all the baiting in this thread. I'd RATHER we talk about the new version of TE and how cool it looks and how we finally have a great alternative to the one thing I missed most in RP2, the tubes. Forgive my backseat moderation, but d@mmit I don't want my thread locked.
Suggestion that could potentially end half of the discussion on this thread:
Configurable Tesseract settings. The baseline recipe that is default, and another recipe (perhaps 2) that is of the more expensive variety that can be enabled at the server's discretion. Maybe if KL is open to an upkeep cost that could be a config option as well.
KL will do what KL thinks is best, but just my $0.02.
Configurable Tesseract settings. The baseline recipe that is default, and another recipe (perhaps 2) that is of the more expensive variety that can be enabled at the server's discretion. Maybe if KL is open to an upkeep cost that could be a config option as well.
KL will do what KL thinks is best, but just my $0.02.
BUT WAIT. Can you still get extra planks by putting a sawmill in the mix?Meaningless change here's why; a 36HP Solid eats 720 charcoal per hour in 1.5, you need 1440 as of this change. I just finished prototyping a charcoal factory that produces about 48,000 charcoal per hour consuming only 1440 of it to keep the entire system completely enclosed, it never needs any outside materials, no human maintience, nothing, I never even have to look at it ever again unlike any Liquid system thus still its still completely superior. Tldr: Under the new solid fuel values it'll cost me 2880 of 48000 charcoal instead to keep the loop running, woop... All he's doing is lagging servers more because its just going to be shuffling around 2x as many items thru networks to keep up.
Edit: Wait a minute... If charcoal was 1600 and is now nerfed to 800, planks are worth 300 and still worth 300 and you get 4 per log which is equal to 1200 its actually 50% more efficient now to just send all your logs->planks->solid boilers... Well that cuts a huge step out of the process! So I guess I now have a Plank Factory that produces 192,000 Planks per hour for solid boiler fuel and at half the MJ cost of the charcoal factory since I can just cut that entire furnace part of it out so i'm now using 3840 planks of 192,000 produced to power it. This is pro balance.
SonOfABirch
New Member
and 1/8th of a charcoal
King Lemming
New Member
I would argue that the success is because the mod just works and doesn't wreck servers. Go back to the days before TE existed and let me know how many modded (BuildCraft) 50+ player servers were running at 20 ticks. The answer rhymes with "hero."
Play a world with only TE. Suddenly, nothing is very cheap. That's what I have to balance against. At the end of the day, the only other mod I can practically guarantee will be present is NEI. I don't provide an autominer or a pump. Probably will in the future, but they still won't be anywhere near as convenient as a Turtle, and they'll have infrastructure cost and energy upkeep.
Pre-End, Tesseracts aren't cheap. Or at least they wouldn't be, without another mod adding spawners to create Ender Men. Even if you have to hunt them normally? No problem, just put on your invincibility armor, you know - the one that TE doesn't add.
Ultimately, everything in Minecraft is a speed bump once you add Turtles in. You cannot use that as a valid argument or a balance point. It is likewise folly to assume that other mods will be present in the modding environment when taking balance into consideration. And yet, we certainly have done that, though there's no obligation.
Nice! Pre-emptive bug report: does it crash when a Steve's Cart drives past in front of it, and it right-clicks on it and the game thinks that it's a player opening the interface? I think Deployers used to crash on the second time they did that, because the game thought the interface was already open and was being opened again. Just a heads-up for the kind of problem that auto-clicker-machines have had in the past.Clone? Yeah right. It can do left/right click complete with shift functionality... did I mention you can also change the pitch when firing projectiles?
sciguyryan
New Member
I just tested this and it doesn't seem to crash so I'd say it will work just fine.
matheus P Pfitscher
New Member
This discussion serves only to make me feel more excited about playing a TE only world. I had never stop to think about what KL said... We are asking to balance shit not because it is OP on their nature, but became OP on the environment we use, aka, a modpack.