Thermal Expansion 3.0!!! No More Beta! Thanks KL!

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Sarda said:
IC2 & BC/Railcraft/Forestry cut the burn time of liquid fuels like Ethanol, Fuel, ect to 1/4, and Lava to 1/10th.
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Please actually play the mods before you post about them on the forums. I keep telling you to quote your sources, and you keep making up figures out of thin air.

IC2 nerfed lava in geothermal generators to 1/2, not 1/10th. Buildcraft, Railcraft and Forestry did not do anything whatsoever to lava, at all. And if you insist I will prove it with screenshots once I get home, because in contrast to you I can back up my claims.
 
I don't get why people are so upset about the liquid fuel changes....
Before liequid fuel was like 2-8 times better than any solid you could get (haven't got the time to actually look the numbers up right now).
Now they are more or less equal which is a good thing imho. And is has already been proofen that you can do the same things with nearly the same setups as before it just wont be as "overpowered" compared to solids as it was before.
 
Omicron said:
Please actually play the mods before you post about them on the forums. I keep telling you to quote your sources, and you keep making up figures out of thin air.

IC2 nerfed lava in geothermal generators to 1/2, not 1/10th. Buildcraft, Railcraft and Forestry did not do anything whatsoever to lava, at all. And if you insist I will prove it with screenshots once I get home, because in contrast to you I can back up my claims.
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There's nothing BC/RC/Forestry even do with lava to begin with I obviously meant IC2 is the one that nerf's Lava fuel too and if it would spread to the Magmatic Engines of TE it would be the last thing I want to see at the moment. As for 1/10th, you are correct that I'm wrong, i mistakenly remembered that figure for some reason from a older Direwolf20 video he talked about Lava being nerfed (S2E5 I think) I wasn't paying much attention to it at the time since I didn't careless about IC2's changes then and it was out of date to current changes as its actually only 1/2'd now.

Lathanael said:
I don't get why people are so upset about the liquid fuel changes....
Before liequid fuel was like 2-8 times better than any solid you could get (haven't got the time to actually look the numbers up right now).
Now they are more or less equal which is a good thing imho. And is has already been proofen that you can do the same things with nearly the same setups as before it just wont be as "overpowered" compared to solids as it was before.
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People are upset because of the amount of effort and materials that goes into making and using liquid fuel. It was 2-8x times better because people wouldn't use it if it wasn't, hell a lot of people don't even use it now at 2-8x better because they already believe solid is superior because of how much more simplistic it is to make enmass. So being more or less equal is not a good thing at all.
 
Sounds like a good change to me, as someone even said 'we will just abuse solid fuels now'. (facepalm).

One single MFR tree farm will create more power than anyone would ever need, besides a matter fabricator or other gregtech stuff. I kind of like having a power 'progression' to the game. working on more power, more resources, more fuel, etc etc. Instead with an MFR farm you get a few resources by hand, then BAM! more fuel than you can use for most anything outside of gregtech (or at least ic2 with a mass fab).

Im fairly skeptical of using this new TE. One tesseract to rule them all now? Moving stacks of items without any power use at all? As another person said earlier in this thread, its rude to just make items from other mods and make them better 'to increase market share'. is this some sort of hidden competition between BC and TE? "No MY pipes are better!" "No *I* Will build the fastest and cheapest pipes!"

Power creep will kill this entire game. New players will find so few challenges that they will just quit after a short time, and eventually all this will die out due to lack of interest.
 
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zorn said:
One single MFR tree farm will create more power than anyone would ever need, besides a matter fabricator or other gregtech stuff. I kind of like having a power 'progression' to the game. working on more power, more resources, more fuel, etc etc. Instead with an MFR farm you get a few resources by hand, then BAM! more fuel than you can use for most anything outside of gregtech (or at least ic2 with a mass fab).
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As much as I'd hate to burst your bubble- that's not entirely true. You can easily run the GT machines and still put a decent rate through the matterfab with a MFR farm.
(though slightly laggy- in excess of 100 block updates/second, spilled saplings everywhere where the farm doesn't catch them all, and insta-growing multiple trees every tick. Its an epic sight that drive any server into the ground)

Buy you're most certainly right about this almost constant one-upmanship between modders.
Like lightning takes the path of least resistance, its much the same with players- so be it a conscious decision or a subconscious design as a result of not wanting to build a mod that no-one would then use.
I'm mean- who wants to see their work wasted right?​
​
I guess this means the fuel rebalancing is a step in the right direction.
 
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Moving stacks of items without any power use at all? As another person said earlier in this thread, its rude to just make items from other mods and make them better 'to increase market share'. is this some sort of hidden competition between BC and TE? "No MY pipes are better!" "No *I* Will build the fastest and cheapest pipes!"
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Because having power for:
furnance
pulverizer
induction smelter
And an early supply of obsidian and lead is just that much easy than putting glass and stone in a craft table... The least it could do when transporting items is moving a whole stack.
 
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matheus P Pfitscher said:
Because having power for:
furnance
pulverizer
induction smelter
And an early supply of obsidian and lead is just that much easy than putting glass and stone in a craft table... The least it could do when transporting items is moving a whole stack.
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Indeed, you need to get the TE machine systems in place first before you can even start building any conduits/ducts.
Most difficult thing for BC pipes is getting a piece of redstone for a redstone engine to pull items out of a container.

TE gives you better tools, but at increased cost. That's it's balancing system.
 
My chief complaint with BC pipes is the client rendering load, aka client lag. I have a 2-yr-old machine @ and my frame rate stays pretty high with most content. However, BC pipes seem to drop my frame rate more than most. If I had a much faster machine, I doubt I'd notice.

As for TE vs. BC pipes, it doesn't seem TE pipes are meant to compete with BC pipes any more than AE buses are and LP pipes are. BC pipes are perfect for early-game automation and TE pipes seem too expensive for that. Obsidian, for instance, is not easy to get in bulk early-game.
 
zorn said:
Im fairly skeptical of using this new TE. One tesseract to rule them all now? Moving stacks of items without any power use at all? As another person said earlier in this thread, its rude to just make items from other mods and make them better 'to increase market share'. is this some sort of hidden competition between BC and TE? "No MY pipes are better!" "No *I* Will build the fastest and cheapest pipes!"
Click to expand...

Outside of the magic mods, moving items and liquids across vast distances and dimensions usually does not require power or otherwise have a cost/tax. Consider:
  • vanilla ender chests
  • Ender Storage chests and tanks
  • Ender IO Dimensional Transceiver
  • TE tesseracts
Once built and deployed, none of these have a tax on item/liquid movement. Power is a different story. IMHO, Ender IO's 10% tax is a bit too cheap, but Ender IO is in its early stages and this could change.
 
Sarda said:
People are upset because of the amount of effort and materials that goes into making and using liquid fuel. It was 2-8x times better because people wouldn't use it if it wasn't, hell a lot of people don't even use it now at 2-8x better because they already believe solid is superior because of how much more simplistic it is to make enmass. So being more or less equal is not a good thing at all.
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I would have to agree with this. I always thought the power of liquid fuel was a reward for the additional infrastructure / setup complexity, which also made that setup process more fun and rewarding.

Now, if its about the same as solid fuel (without "forced" tree breeding), why bother?
 
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Ah, the nail on the head.
Zarkov said:
I would have to agree with this. I always thought the power of liquid fuel was a reward for the additional infrastructure / setup complexity, which also made that setup process more fun and rewarding.

Now, if its about the same as solid fuel (without "forced" tree breeding), why bother?
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Hit the nail on the head. *If* a decently-bred sapling with the best or close-to-the-best traits does not produce appreciably more net energy per multifarm than charcoal, then, yes, the nerf went too far.

I still have not tested this yet, but given my previous experiences with decently bred saplings and the insane (i.e. "incredibly OP") amount of power I was generating from 1 multifarm pre-nerf, I'm confident that tree breeding will still produce a superior results. It just won't be 2 orders of magnitude better, but maybe only 1 order of magnitude better.

One of the problems with testing the change is you can't get/make the best sapling in creative or from NEI cheat mode in a test world. You have to actually breed it to test. This is on my to-do list.
 
MigukNamja said:
Outside of the magic mods, moving items and liquids across vast distances and dimensions usually does not require power or otherwise have a cost/tax. Consider:
  • vanilla ender chests
Click to expand...
if it`s an automated setup we are talking about then good luck finding at least one usage of vanilla ender chests...
 
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Looks like it. A TE deployer/block breaker combo! Doesn't seem to need power apart from the redstone signal.

Question though, can it be pointed up/down?
 
Dear people:

Stop using 'power creep' to refer to something that happens to be better than the worst option. That's like calling every Pokemon from Gen 4 and up power creep since they beat Luvdisc. Additionally, please remember to think about RP2's Filter when talking about item transport, which required some infrastructure to create, but was still rather cheap. And also it moved whole stacks without power.

Seriously. Everything in Thermal Expansion requires Thermal Expansion. If you want the current transport options, you need several TE machines to produce the raw materials. Itemducts will probably be crafted similarly to liquiducts, which require obsidian to build. And AE will still be better if you have the power for it, since it can automatic freaking everything.
 
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