I chuckled at this part
Hey ... I can be very mean ... especially when people threaten my homicidal babies
I chuckled at this part
It would not make much sense to have a pack update of 20-30 mods being downloaded 1 at a time. However it would make much more sense if we stopped re-shipping mods and configs you already have installed.
You're into the lands of technicalities there, I'd say that functionality and platform support are independent of each other.1. It has been said that launcher functionality will only increase due to this deal. Dropping Linux and/or OSX makes that statement untrue, and makes the community skeptical, especially early in the relationship.
I think the thing a lot of people have brought up, is it's not that hard to code a multi OS program. Theirs TONS of resources out there to do that. Many of them have been brought up here in this thread and what I find kind of ridiculous myself, is why in the world are those resources not being utilized. Theirs been one explanation that was given that honestly.. doesn't make a bit of sense. Multiple times, it's been said over and over again, it would not affect its performance if done correctly. Going native means spending more time on different versions for each OS. Why not cut your time by a 3rd, and start development on a multi platform client that does everything you need it to do. It just boggles the mind a little bit, and to call whats been going on in this thread ridiculous.. is well.. ridiculous.Just wanted to interject here for a second. Since I decided randomly to actually come to this site.
The contract I have signed with Curse has NOTHING to do with Forge right now.
I am purely there to help get this CurseForge stuff going and make it the best that it can be.
As it sits we can't do to much because its in flux and i'm getting to know everything.
However, I can state some definitive things, because the argument over them is kinda stupid.
1) No there will NOT be a 'Curse' version of Forge. Curse in no way is buying the Forge project. They get NO say in it's development. In the future once CurseForge is done, the plan is to work something out where CurseForge is the OFFICIAL host. But not the exclusive host. It will ALWAYS remain open source, it will always remain free. The CurseForge system has some great potential, especially when it comes to ease of deployment for the end modder. So POTENTIALLY I may do things in ForgeGradle like add support for automatically deploying to CF, but Forge itself will never have anything Curse specific. I will continue to develop it in the direction that I feel is best for the community {and my sanity} as a whole.
2) The whole linux and other OS debates. Windows is the main concern as it makes up somewhere around 80% of the end user base with Mac following behind, and Linux rolling in at around 1%. From a purely numerical standpoint, Linux PLAYERS don't matter at all. Hypothetical 'If one linux user leaves a million windows users will follow' is nonsense and doesn't matter. However, it is well known fact that the majority of SERVERS are linux based because, well Linux is better for that. So, will there be a way to obtain Mods/ModPacks on Linux, of course. Will it be the full fledged pretty CurseClient? That is to be determined. So quit harping on that, Linux users will not be SOL, there will be SOMETHING even if I have to write it myself and it has no relation to Curse officially.
Basically: Will there be a {insert OS} Client? Officially: Maybe if it makes valid business sense, cost vs benefit. Unofficially: There will be something, be it put out by Curse or the community.
3) The API for CurseForge. Its silly to speculate on such things right now. Its a highly technical thing as well as a business thing. There will be SOMETHING available because there will HAVE to be for the CurseClient to work. Whether that's officially documented/exposed to outsiders is unknown at this time and will be figured out as it evolves. However on a personal level my goal has always been to provide some sort of open standard API that others can use and implement.
As for all the other small things like, custom install folders, entering usernames, etc.. That's all minor details that honestly, nobody knows right now but approach it with optimism and see how it unfolds. The client will be used because it's good, not because it's a monopoly.
I don't expect to check this forum often, so if @Jaded or @Eyamaz or someone would be so kind as to poke me if there is anything REALLY important I should read.
But its getting kinda silly.
I'll share API details when I have them.
We currently have a server API for bukkit plugins. Servers will be addressed in our plans as we work out the details.
Not to pull the old trope, but you have no idea how difficult or not it is to develop a cross platform client. Because every project is different. Yes there are tools out there that can be used to help ease it and make certain types of projects 'easy'. However, pulling out another trope, if its so easy, then you should go do it. Do something productive instead of reiterating the same ill informed regurgitate statement over and over. The fact that you honestly believe that time would be divided between each OS equally shows how you don't understand project development. Obviously each aspect has to be handled in it's own manor. The main logical setup would be to have the functional core cross platform and the presentation platform specific. Which from what i've seen is how things are happening.I think the thing a lot of people have brought up, is it's not that hard to code a multi OS program. Theirs TONS of resources out there to do that. Many of them have been brought up here in this thread and what I find kind of ridiculous myself, is why in the world are those resources not being utilized. Theirs been one explanation that was given that honestly.. doesn't make a bit of sense. Multiple times, it's been said over and over again, it would not affect its performance if done correctly. Going native means spending more time on different versions for each OS. Why not cut your time by a 3rd, and start development on a multi platform client that does everything you need it to do. It just boggles the mind a little bit, and to call whats been going on in this thread ridiculous.. is well.. ridiculous.
A lot of people here are just worried, or scared of what could happen in the near future with the Curse deal and the curse client being shoved down our throats for downloading the modpacks. Honestly, I've always hated the Curse client and probably always will. Its never sat right with me, but I'm always willing to give things multiple chances and if its for FTB. I'm willing to give it a chance, but only if done correctly and in a way to honor the community that was created around FTB. Not providing them the one thing that there basically screaming about in this thread is just a little more than boggling. If you have this many people already upset about the confusion around a Linux release, imagine what happens when everything that's been said in this thread about how to provide a Linux release is just promptly ignored. The Community here is very tight knit, and ignoring a small portion of them who crys out for Linux support is like shooting the entire community in the foot.
I'm not threatening, I'm not accusing, I'm more just worried about what the future is going to bring if Curse refuses to listen to the FTB community. Also, I don't think anyone ever said anything about a Linux user leaving and a million windows users leaving. I think I mentioned if there was no Linux server support for downloading the mod pack through at least a wget, you'd end up with many server hosts refusing to support a mod pack that was extremely difficult to get a hold of. If that happens, most of the FTB servers that are rented will slowly disappear. Causing an adverse effect on the client base of the FTB packs. Also, a lot of the people who make some of these mods, code them on linux (if this isn't true, feel tree to smack me. I'm more making an assumption). If there not able to test the mod packs, then they won't be able to create them.
So the point was, even though its a small user base who downloads through linux, they are mostly some of the more important clients who keeps things running smoothly. So I'm sorry if you find this thread slightly ridiculous, but everything that's been said here in this thread is a valid and straight point that should be considered.
Have you ever tried writing an application for multiple OSes? Lex didn't go into the details and I won't waste my time with the fine details either as there are plenty of resources that tell you exactly how difficult it truly is.I think the thing a lot of people have brought up, is it's not that hard to code a multi OS program. Theirs TONS of resources out there to do that. Many of them have been brought up here in this thread and what I find kind of ridiculous myself, is why in the world are those resources not being utilized.
And how does that help for an FTB sever then?
Its no as if FTB is very compatible with Bukkit.
I've done some tests with Bukkit mods/plugins that where said to be compatible but never got anything bukkit to work.
Personally I want to upload mod packs on the sun. I mean, it's huge, so it must be the biggest server in the galaxy, right? It'd serve mod packs so fast to users. That's how space works, right? Right? D:Oh and Lex? Can you teach me to [create|build|upload|download|share|copy|use|play] [mods|mod packs|textures|texture packs|maps] on [linux|mac|phones|toasters|your hamster|the sun]? Please?
Personally I want to upload mod packs on the sun. I mean, it's huge, so it must be the biggest server in the galaxy, right? It'd serve mod packs so fast to users. That's how space works, right? Right? D:
c) I was an idiot and just completely missed it.
So to repeat my previous post:
Will you be able to [create|build|upload|download|share|copy|use|play] [mods|mod packs|textures|texture packs|maps] on [linux|mac|phones|toasters|your hamster|the sun]?
YES, unequivocally, YES.
Will this be done officially by Curse through the full feature complete CurseClient on [Linux|Mac|TheMoon|TIMMEAH]?
Maybe. No Guarantees.
Can Bryan ever promise you that these things will come through as an official Curse Employee representing Curse and it's products?
No, because he does not have that power and would be an idiotic business move that if things were to go awry or potentially not come out the way he says could land both him and the company is hot water.
Can I, Lex, as a 3rd party Not representing Curse promise you that your issues will be addressed in one manor or another by at least the community?
Yes, and I am.
Is this clear enough for you? I'm not sure how "Yes" can get any clearer.
It comes down to if you trust Slow and myself.
If you don't then there is nothing we can do to convince you.
If you do, then take our word for what we say.
This sounds a lot like you are saying that to use Curse.com to distribute mods the author has to ok everyone using it. I was under the impression that there would be a way for mod authors to check off either:
- Everyone can use
- People can use if pack is distributed through the Curse client
- Specific packs/creators can use. - There are several custom mods made to work only in 1 or 2 packs. Magic Farm for example has used 3 mods that were custom made to work with only the mods in that pack and those mods were not even available for download outside the pack.
- Not allowed to be used/ incompatible with "mod xyz"
@Kaelten Could you report on whether the Curse client will need to be running in the background while you're playing a modpack? That seems to be a concern of some people, though if it's as efficient as you say it is (0%-3% CPU use), I don't see a huge problem with it running in the background anyway.
Yes I understand that, and other os support is very important to Slow and myself. However, lets just put it to rest with other os's not officially falling under "feature parity". Because there is no way anyone can grantee that there WILL be a full feature complete linux or mac client at launch or the near future if it does not make proper business sense.It doesn't help that Slow initially mentioned "feature parity" for the new Curse client, which most assumed included cross-platform parity, and Kaelten then saying that there were no plans for a Linux client (at least at launch?), and nobody seemed to be able to clear things up and kill speculation and whatnot.
Jaded isn't so much wrong as it's just that the exact details of the permissions system has yet to be worked out. The goal, is to get everyone on the same platform and working together. Where restrictions such as you quoted do not need to exist. But rather "my mod can not be used with mod xyz because there is a major incompatibility issue"There also wasn't much indication of what to do about mod distribution permissions. Even Jaded had the wrong impression, apparently:
Because, for example, if mod authors are able to say "my mod can only be used in modpacks if distributed through the Curse client", then if there is no official Linux version, there's going to be an issue there. And if I make my own unofficial version of the client, either through an official, documented API (hopefully) or through reverse-engineering the protocols used by the windows client (getting murkier) or even just an HTML scraper (much, much uglier), then yeah, there still might be some issues because it's not the actual official Curse client.
I know, and I understand that. However, we get the point, we are not stupid. We KNOW linux is wanted. However you jut have to accept that the is NO way Curse can promise anything related to that with 100% certainty. The only way they could do that is if they have a fully functional complete release ready to go on Linux.I mean yeah, obviously we Linux users are going to figure something out anyway, but we still prefer to do things the legit way when we can.
I understand the sentiment, I don't particularly care or agree with it, but I understand it. However, it's just the world we live in. Its the same way many other major companies deal with things. Get something done that addresses 90% of the community and after that is settled see what can be done to address the rest.And maybe, perhaps maybe, all this sentiment from Linux users is because we've been snubbed for a long time, and only recently did things like Minecraft and Desura and Steam and the Humble Bundle (even gog.com, just yesterday!) started to actually pay attention to the Linux community and now there's a lot of love for us. And when you see Curse not promise Linux support where the current FTB client already has it, it looks to a lot of us like backtracking on progress that had already been made.
Have you ever tried writing an application for multiple OSes? Lex didn't go into the details and I won't waste my time with the fine details either as there are plenty of resources that tell you exactly how difficult it truly is.
As a programmer you will not spend the majority of your time coding, you will spend it debugging. While those tools may assist in certain aspects, they do not eliminate the majority of the problems you will encounter. Anything beyond a basic "Hello World" application will require you to understand all those platforms and sometimes even the differences between different editions.
Keep in mind that while Windows and Mac OS X only have a few commonly used editions, Linux has literally hundreds of distros and the user base is pretty fragmented across them. Some users may be running bleeding edge, some may be using an equivalent to Ubuntu's LTS system, and some may be on a completely outdated system.
At the end of the day, the only people who truly believe it is easy to code for multiple platforms are honestly those who have no real experience in the field.