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Forge: My list of grievances

Discussion in 'General FTB chat' started by Petrus, May 9, 2013.

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  1. BananaSplit2

    BananaSplit2 Active Member


    This wasn't about the character, it was about the idea. If you want, take someone who uses loopholes in laws to get money and stuff. They do legal stuff, but they are still horrible persons, and the argument still doesn't stand to justify decision. Maybe it wasn't the best person to take, but still.(also technically, what he did wasn't illegal, as he was head of state. What law did he really break literally ? But that is going way too off topic there). Also should be consider the actual laws or the legitimacy of an action or behavior ? And who can really judge legitimacy in the name of everybody ? There is no absolute truth, just opinions.

    You cannot justify a decision by saying "I chose it so it's justified"; to me it's clear

    In practical, yes, something is like this because someone decided so, this is how real world is. But are we forced to blindly accept it and praise the modders/youtubers for it ? I don't believe so. And this is how society work, and communities ARE little scale societies. You cannot speak in the name of all. Part of the community decided to praise someone, the other part decided to not care or to hate this person. Surely there is hard work being done by these people, which we can appreciate, but toward which goal ? Pleasing the community or pleasing themselves ? That we can't know, this is why I'm against whiteknighting for someone. That doesn't stop me from liking someone, and/or even praising him. But not blindly, and I won't make up facts about them while I don't know anything about what they actually think, and nobody really can.

    Well maybe I'm going a bit off topic there, but this is my opinion of the things.
     
  2. Nerixel

    Nerixel The Amphibian Retired Staff

    I, as would an overwhelming majority of people would most likely call what Hitler did as "crimes against humanity", and that's exactly what he was charged with when he lost the war, in addition to other various crimes, so in a way, they were actually laws. Of course you can't just choose anything and say "It's my choice, I'm allowed to do it". It has to be within reason and not be harming anyone else. It is a modder's right to test their mod in any way they want. What is considered to be proper in today's society is decided by the community, not just of FTB, but of all of humanity. If the government decided to legalise murder and rape, there's no way they would have any significant amount of support for that (I would hope), and they would likely be kicked out of office. As such, it is decided by the community, since the government only really does what the community wants. Sometimes they don't, then they get a whole lot of crap thrown at them and they normally end up reversing the change.

    I did not say that all people had to "blindly praise the modders/youtubers". They are clearly praised by a lot of the community, some people just seem to have problems with them. For various reasons, maybe because of jealousy, maybe not. Could be they just wanted to argue over something, or they're a troll (not saying you, or anyone is one of these, I'm just listing the reasons that come to mind immediately). You don't blindly praise someone, you would do it because you enjoyed their work. People enjoy the mods, the streams and the YouTube videos, why would they not thank them for those things?

    I do not pretend to represent the whole of the community, nor do I pretend to represent any part of it. I'm trying to speak as to how I believe other people think that have the same opinion as me, and no-one's really corrected me as of yet. From what I've seen, the people with my opinion far outweigh the people on the opposing side. To clarify, my opinion (which fully goes with that of civil law) is that modders have the right to make, license, test and release their mods whenever and however they want. The same goes for streamers and video-makers. This is, in fact, how it already works. Some people (not you, you're actually providing constructive argument), just fail to see that modders/streamers/video-makers have these rights, and continually try to ignore and twist them.

    EDIT: Note how in my quote of myself, I said "... they deserve my praise." My praise. Not anyone else's, mine.

    Attention moderators: I think there should be a debating section of the forum, where people can just debate about these kind of things. It would have to be moderated, so only posts which actually have constructive content on it would be allowed. It would be awesome, that would become my new favourite section!
     
  3. BananaSplit2

    BananaSplit2 Active Member

    Debating is kind of fun isn't it ?

    Again, I'm absolutely not questioning the ability for modders and youtubers to do what they want. It is freedom, and I am glad we have it. It's more about : why do these people deserve that we justify everything they do on the behalf of that ability to choose whatever they want to do and that we enjoy what they do ?
     
  4. Nerixel

    Nerixel The Amphibian Retired Staff

    It is indeed, I love it.
     
  5. Everlast

    Everlast Well-Known Member

    Are you really that gullible? Nothing is done for free nowadays. Just because you specifically don't have to spend a penny does not mean they don't earn anything.
     
  6. Bluehorazon

    Bluehorazon Active Member

    Honestly most parts of the forum should be like this except for some offtopic-areas. A forum is a roman invention and was used for cultural and political exchange or for creating great personalities if you play Civ. In forum you normally trade ideas, view-points etc. it is the purpose of it. Making a sub-area with this purpose would defy the purpose of the forum as a whole, since it would mean that all other areas are not meant to work that way.

    This discussion however is based on certain exspectations. And although it isn't something bad to expect things to work a certain way demanding something is a whole other story. And if you discuss something politly you might find some mod-authors to consider another stance towards unfinished versions. But if you blindly demand it you propably achieve the opposite.

    Which still makes it free. And I'm not sure eloraam gave a bit of insight towards what amount of money you get from adfly and it isn't that much, which is also the reason why they allow FTB to use the mods and load them from their domain. Donations normally make more money than adfly and donations are free nobody forces you to donate, but a lot of people do it because they love the mods, or they love the stream (like people buying slow pizza).
     
    whizzball1, Anubis and Everlast like this.
  7. Katrinya

    Katrinya Well-Known Member

    You simply can't bring up Hitler in this context and expect to be taken seriously. Not by me, anyway. And I have never once felt smarter after debating with someone on the internet.

    Look, you seem pretty darn convinced of your own opinion. Is there anything I could say to persuade you otherwise? I doubt it, and as such, this doesn't really qualify as a debate at all.
     
    ApSciLiara, Lambert2191 and Nerixel like this.
  8. RichardG

    RichardG Active Member

    (Active editing done)

    IC2's lack of proper public release at the moment is because Alblaka, the only one who can post on the release forum, is away for unknown reasons. Same reason why our content is all stagnant.

    There was one guy, henceforth "L.D.", who ran (probably still runs) a mod repository, all was fine since he asked for permissions. One day, he decided that forgecraft was elitist and decided to start his own server, with modpack advertised on the technic platform and all. His target was making a testing server that your regular joe can join, hoping that devs who feel open were going to give him betas.
    I joined there with an alt account (it's very simple, just go to L.D.'s IRC channel and type a couple commands) and didn't see any development other than a small room in the plains biome in the spawn. I assume it was taken down after L.D. received a complaint from pahimar on IRC regarding the nature of the server, mostly its name intended to play with ours.

    What KingLemming said on page 2 is true, Eloraam has the right of being silent even to her testers.

    Some are concerned about the lack of an API. The public already guessed it by now, but she has decided not to release an API under fear that somebody would make a MiscPeripherals-esque addon to jack up all her future ideas involving redbus.

    Open source? We have people on our side that don't like closed source mods. I will not say names, but they let out a cringe when I tell somebody that IC2 or my mod are closed source.

    For those who fell for the rap battle in page 4: Neptune ain't dead, if so we wouldn't have Factorization-0.7.37.jar up the 1.5.2 alley.

    Oh right, more Eloraam stuff. She has disappeared from the server. I made the mistake of publicly speculating that it was griefing (reason for the castle 8000 blocks away) that made she leave, but it's not. She doesn't deserve being trolled, so it wasn't me - all I could find in the logs was that MattaBase put iron golems in her house.

    I will refuse to comment on any other questions. I will neither confirm or deny rumors of death threats or doxing towards Eloraam too.
     
  9. Freakscar

    Freakscar Well-Known Member

    Disclaimer: This image is in no way directed at any participant in particular.
    image.jpg
     
  10. Nerixel

    Nerixel The Amphibian Retired Staff

    That's... a lot of bold. I used it to emphasize certain points of my argument, you seem to me to have just spammed it on random words.

    Back on topic, this doesn't mean anything to me. Remember, I'm on the side of wanting modders to have all that money, and more, as thanks for doing all that they do. If I had any money, I would donate it to various modders and youtubers that I feel deserve it. Being an unemployed high-school student, money isn't something I come by a lot, so unfortunately I can't do that.

    By free, I meant they aren't really paid for their time working on the mod. Sure, there's adf.ly and donations, but I can't imagine these paying the same amount that a programming job would for the same amount of time they've worked on modding.
     
  11. Mead

    Mead New Member

    Gotta love the internet
     
  12. RetroGamer1224

    RetroGamer1224 Active Member

    The internet where all one needs to do is say something like "I like cake" and all hell breaks loose.
     
  13. dlord

    dlord Active Member

    To the OP.

    I hope you realize by now that complaining does not help anyone. And posting your "grievances" does not make things any better.

    You know what? Make your own mod. And let's see if you can live up to your words.

    Please read my sig.
     
  14. Everlast

    Everlast Well-Known Member

    Which was completely unnecessary in my opinion.

    There's nothing wrong with the mod developers, streamers and YouTubers getting paid for what they do.

    I was targeting the Twitch/YouTube broadcasters, who in fact get paid by the respective companies which in return earn advertisement revenue. As I stated before, there's nothing wrong with that. I just find it absurd that people still believe they do it for free. There's no point in making delusions, entertainment is an enterprise.
     
  15. BananaSplit2

    BananaSplit2 Active Member

    If at the first round of a debate, one changes his opinion, immediately, wouldn't it be kind of... stupid ? Also if you doesn't feel smarter, what is the point for you to enter them then ? Also, how many debates ,considering the whole world, ended with someone changing radically his opinion ?

    You, on the other hand, seems to despise me as some hater kid that just want to get a flame war going. If you can't take someone seriously because he brought up a very serious subject from the XXth century, than I'm sorry, honestly. Also you seem comforted by the fact you are in the majority and you are more prone to bashing "haters", since well, if someone has an even slightly different opinion than yours and he wants to understand why you think otherwise, than it's "hater" (by yours, I don't mean you in particular, I mean a majority of people on the internet). I hope I am wrong on that one.
     
  16. Virgoddess

    Virgoddess Well-Known Member

    Actually, I think constructive criticism is a good thing, which the OP was not (IMO). But many would consider any form of criticism "complaining" and how can you change anything without it?

    Anyhow, this topic is resembling a deceased equine at this point.
     
  17. RetroGamer1224

    RetroGamer1224 Active Member

    I think you are inflating how much they are making. Sure some get paid for what they do but it is not like making hand over fist. Think about it. Take say..Yogscast they make a good amount on their stuff yet they go and do "regular" jobs like everyone else. It isn't like suddenly they are partners and boom all love comes rolling in.
     
  18. DoctorOr

    DoctorOr Popular Member

    Most of the Mindcrack crew are working at making videos as a job and deriving most of their income from payments stemming from that. (No problem from me, yay entrepreneurship) . It may not be living extravagantly, but they are living off the proceeds. Even those with spouses who bring in an income are at least making enough to not get torn apart by that spouse.

    Streamers on the other hand hasn't matured to the that level, and the income from that is a pittance.
     
  19. Everlast

    Everlast Well-Known Member

    Pretty sure it's their main source of income. YouTube, that is.
     
  20. RetroGamer1224

    RetroGamer1224 Active Member

    Both of you have good points. I do have some counters though. Yogscast people have been said they work other jobs. Sips works in a bank for example and I remember Lomada posting in FB that Xephos had a job interview not to long ago. I think it is great that they make money and not disputing that just saying it isn't omg amounts.

    You have to figure that Youtube takes a cut. Entities like TGS, Machinma also take a cut. I can think of a few channels that are popular enough in their circle that the person needs a second job. One is Scooby1964. He sitll has a day job and does youtube.
     
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