By nifty, here, I mean effective. It's fairly obvious that you aren't intended to reach Thaumcraft early on, because so many things that Thaumcraft brings in have the potential to avoid or just greatly simplify some of the intended processes. "Very bad" may describe how you feel about it, but it does meet its intended purpose marvelously.
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I didnt mind the gating of Thaumcraft personally, forced me to learn Witchery and Botanica which I would have never done as Thaumcraft is a mod I know too well and what I can do with it
All I'm saying is, gating for the sake of gating is bad. If you want to gate, you can split the gamechanging features into certain general stages, such as the flint/iron age. If I have to build ridiculously complicated machinery and structures just to make a single simple item, instead of them being generally useful in my current stage... ugh.
How about making it easier to get the basic stuff, and harder to craft the actually useful items? That way you can easily get into the mod, find out how it works, and plan your progress accordingly.
I found it annoying too, but not that annoying. I wish I could start research earlier, but not necessarily be able to DO much until farther in. I think wands could gate things without crippling the ability to get research tables. Can't do much with just an iron-capped wand. Since greatwood is required for a wand that can hold 50 mana, which limits how much you can do in Thaumcraft, I think not having greatwood for that would limit early progress enough. I think plain wood for the research tables would be fine.
But I didn't dig far in to see if there are some lower tier Thaumcraft recipes that might break progression. Making Thaumium, I suppose, but that should be gateable by other means, if that's a big deal Seems like it should not be as pig iron is doable too.
Then there's AE2. Now THAT is gated.
So, I have a botania noob user question: Is there any way to have, let's say, 4 pools receiving mana from spreaders and having all of them connected, sharing the same amount of mana? Like a multi-pool-stuff. I tried using sparks, augmentations and stuff, but it doesn't work the way I want D:
Thaumcraft is a tricky subject for how it should be gated. Honestly, for those less-advanced in the Thaumic ways, I feel that tpl has done a fabulous job of keeping the base progression the same while still gating it. Obviously, you are more advanced in Thaumcraft and thus know the intended (read: usual) way to make all of the items, with all of their aspects and intended resources. Now imagine that tpl changes those aspects or intended resources to something you can't get until later on. Now you've changed a simple gating system to a very difficult one. Which things in Thaumcraft are considered game-breaking as per his view of how this pack should be played? Probably the automated harvesting from golems, since it seems he really wants you to work for your resources.
He's already stated he doesn't want quests to be "go get x000000000 of this certain item" which one could stand to reason would mean he carries this philosophy into how he gates progression. He doesn't want you to have to toss in 20 coal and 40 torches to get a single nitor and use diamond blocks in all other slots to turn that into a golem core. It's ridiculous and unnecessary and you will be hating it later into the game. By simply gating entrance to the mod itself, tpl can focus on other things, like quests, bug fixes, etc. which, by the way, is the same thing he did for blood magic: he gated entrance to the mod, not the uses of it once there. The user having to go through Botania and Witchery also ties in nicely with his questbook considering you need a certain reputation to unlock some quests. Agree with his design philosophy or not, it's how tpl has chosen to go forwards with progression.
Also, about the "having" to plop down witchery and botania, why not just make a cool area for it instead of just plopping it down? Sure, you may not be able to complete it at that moment, but just leave a little room for whatever you know is coming and use what you need while making the place look cool. For example, I knew that redstone seeds were coming up, so I made a nice area for my witchery setup before making the whiff of magic. Sure, I could've just plopped down the oven, but that wouldn't have done me any good in the long run. This pack has a lot of planning involved, it's not just "run through progression as fast as you can while expanding your base". You actually have to think about how you want things laid out before you get there, which is something I've not had to do with any other pack and am having a ton of fun with.
not that i am aware, how i go about it i connect all spreaders to one pool and put recessive on it. as i believe it works it fills all other ones around it equally
Edit: @ToxicFallenAngel well said
That's probably the best work around that I can think of. Thanks a lotnot that i am aware, how i go about it i connect all spreaders to one pool and put recessive on it. as i believe it works it fills all other ones around it equally
Edit: @ToxicFallenAngel well said
I think I'm a bit stuck on the magic progression... The only quest I have available in a magic line is the one to create an attuned stone, which requires end-game Botania. The last Botania quest I did was the one to create Gluttony, Wrath, etc. runes. No new quests opened up after that. Am I missing some other trigger or is that just where it ends?
On the topic of Thaumcraft entry gating.. interesting timing, as this weekend I've been working on a bee-line progression to golems. I had forgotten about the dragonstone requirement, and having to work up to that has effectively doubled my time to reach them. Before that lapse, I had my lapis crops planted by Minecraft day 24. (This includes a good 3 day delay while I dug around for lava!)
I didn't have diamonds, blaze, or gold in my original plan, and spent extra time getting those seeds and growing them. I'm currently on Minecraft day 38, waiting for blaze essence to grow so I can make sparks for terrasteel. In another 2 or 3 days I should be there and waiting for the Greatwood to grow, then finally getting the Thaumcraft research for the golems and harvest core. So, assuming I haven't missed anything major, I should have harvest automation before day 45. I think the biggest hold up now is actually getting the ember moss.. have gone through over a stack of mutandis at this point and still no sign. I wonder if there's a quest somewhere that will reward me some..
So, you can have golems within 15 hours of play, and I'm thinking that could be brought down to 12 hours with better planning. This seems pretty reasonable to me.
My Witchery and Botania areas are thrown together (I'm not a builder to begin with). All of my tier 1 seeds are 10/10/10 and most of my tier 2 seeds are close. In this world, I've ignored most of the storage quests, and all of Mariculture (minus the vat for getting to the Nether), Forestry, Tinker's Construct (I'm still using flint tools!), BC, and Railcraft. Interesting to note that progression down these tech lines is not needed at all for the magic side.
I had forgotten about the dragonstone requirement, and having to work up to that has effectively doubled my time to reach them. Before that lapse, I had my lapis crops planted by Minecraft day 24. (This includes a good 3 day delay while I dug around for lava!) I didn't have diamonds, blaze, or gold in my original plan, and spent extra time getting those seeds and growing them. I'm currently on Minecraft day 38, waiting for blaze essence to grow so I can make sparks for terrasteel. In another 2 or 3 days I should be there and waiting for the Greatwood to grow, then finally getting the Thaumcraft research for the golems and harvest core. So, assuming I haven't missed anything major, I should have harvest automation before day 45. I think the biggest hold up now is actually getting the ember moss.. have gone through over a stack of mutandis at this point and still no sign. I wonder if there's a quest somewhere that will reward me some..
So, you can have golems within 15 hours of play, and I'm thinking that could be brought down to 12 hours with better planning. This seems pretty reasonable to me.
My Witchery and Botania areas are thrown together (I'm not a builder to begin with). All of my tier 1 seeds are 10/10/10 and most of my tier 2 seeds are close. In this world, I've ignored most of the storage quests, and all of Mariculture (minus the vat for getting to the Nether), Forestry, Tinker's Construct (I'm still using flint tools!), BC, and Railcraft. Interesting to note that progression down these tech lines is not needed at all for the magic side.
Actually, all of those things require a significant amount of work to obtain. Each mana tablet requires an ender pearl or diamond. Terrasteel requires an assload of mana generation, which takes a lot of time to set up. Add to all of that how extremely easy agricraft makes getting all of these things and fuel to power mana generation (basically unlimited coal for endoflames), and botania becomes much, much easier to play than it is alone or with pretty much any other mod pack.
Honestly, the quest rewards do offer a lot of things that are hard to obtain on your own, but what is really making botania entirely too easy is agricraft. Without agricraft, getting the items to craft botania items becomes a much larger hassle. With agricraft, you set up a few farms containing ender pearls, diamonds, iron, coal, and you've pretty much got every thing you need to infinitely create items and mana in botania.
Regrowth was my first time playing botania. I am now playing botania as part of a different mod pack, and it has taken me quite a bit more time to achieve the same things that I had in regrowth due to not having quest rewards and not having farms overflowing with items to pump into botania.
Part of me thinks that Regrowth is the only time you've played botania..
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On the topic of Thaumcraft entry gating.. interesting timing, as this weekend I've been working on a bee-line progression to golems.
I didn't have diamonds, blaze, or gold in my original plan, and spent extra time getting those seeds and growing them. I'm currently on Minecraft day 38, waiting for blaze essence to grow so I can make sparks for terrasteel. In another 2 or 3 days I should be there and waiting for the Greatwood to grow, then finally getting the Thaumcraft research for the golems and harvest core. So, assuming I haven't missed anything major, I should have harvest automation before day 45. I think the biggest hold up now is actually getting the ember moss.. have gone through over a stack of mutandis at this point and still no sign. I wonder if there's a quest somewhere that will reward me some..
So, you can have golems within 15 hours of play, and I'm thinking that could be brought down to 12 hours with better planning. This seems pretty reasonable to me.
My Witchery and Botania areas are thrown together (I'm not a builder to begin with). All of my tier 1 seeds are 10/10/10 and most of my tier 2 seeds are close. In this world, I've ignored most of the storage quests, and all of Mariculture (minus the vat for getting to the Nether), Forestry, Tinker's Construct (I'm still using flint tools!), BC, and Railcraft. Interesting to note that progression down these tech lines is not needed at all for the magic side.
I agree! The research it takes to get to anything useful in thaumcaft is long. My issue is for players that are as far along now, and even worse for people who have made it to the dream world(and if I read it right, it's basically a restart of the game) what happens when there is a map reset needed? I can't imagin anyone would want to do the seed thing all over again. I have started from scratch twice now, and I' already not wanting to go to the dream world. For a mod that will help liten the load for players shouldn't be so far away that when you get there you have completed more than half the pack. All complaining aside, I finily got my greatwood sapling and that thing still hasn't grown. It's like watching water boil.lol
My base is the same, just mod sections thrown around in order to get the thaumcraft.
I haven't been able to get nice builds since before 1.7.10 for some reason.yeah my base is just walled in with machines thrown about as i need them, i tried building buildings (saying that sounds funny) for each thing like a lab for the technology and such but im just not good at building things so i dont even try ;pI agree! The research it takes to get to anything useful in thaumcaft is long. My issue is for players that are as far along now, and even worse for people who have made it to the dream world(and if I read it right, it's basically a restart of the game) what happens when there is a map reset needed? I can't imagin anyone would want to do the seed thing all over again. I have started from scratch twice now, and I' already not wanting to go to the dream world. For a mod that will help liten the load for players shouldn't be so far away that when you get there you have completed more than half the pack. All complaining aside, I finily got my greatwood sapling and that thing still hasn't grown. It's like watching water boil.lol
My base is the same, just mod sections thrown around in order to get the thaumcraft.
Have you completed the nether quest in what the world enables? It's after the vat quest.
Couple Agri-craft related things:
1. Is it possible to have a "tiered" soil set-up instead of strict? It would be nice if we could plant everything on the top tier soil (also you can't un-till garden soil). This would exclude special need soils like soulsand, sand, etc.
2. Can we get the actual flowers instead of the dyes from the "normal" flower crops? You can do flower -> dye, but not the other way around. With that fact, plus the fact you can get dye from the petals, that set of crops become useless. Same goes for the botania crops: flower -> petals. If you want to make it so you still have to get the actual flowers another way, that would make sense for the botania flowers since the crop would still be very useful and there are mechanics for flowers already built into the mod, but not so much with the normal flower crops being useless.
Last request: if there is an intended way to get around the spirit-world from scratch issue, please put it in the quest book. If there is not an intended way and you wanted it from scratch, please rethink that and include at least one way in the quest book. Doing it all again really is just a grind as opposed to actual progression the first time through, and without that info in-game, it will just keep popping up over and over despite being addressed.
And, since it is my first post in this thread, very nice pack so far. The progression rules do a nice job in switching up play.
1. Is it possible to have a "tiered" soil set-up instead of strict? It would be nice if we could plant everything on the top tier soil (also you can't un-till garden soil). This would exclude special need soils like soulsand, sand, etc.
2. Can we get the actual flowers instead of the dyes from the "normal" flower crops? You can do flower -> dye, but not the other way around. With that fact, plus the fact you can get dye from the petals, that set of crops become useless. Same goes for the botania crops: flower -> petals. If you want to make it so you still have to get the actual flowers another way, that would make sense for the botania flowers since the crop would still be very useful and there are mechanics for flowers already built into the mod, but not so much with the normal flower crops being useless.
Last request: if there is an intended way to get around the spirit-world from scratch issue, please put it in the quest book. If there is not an intended way and you wanted it from scratch, please rethink that and include at least one way in the quest book. Doing it all again really is just a grind as opposed to actual progression the first time through, and without that info in-game, it will just keep popping up over and over despite being addressed.
And, since it is my first post in this thread, very nice pack so far. The progression rules do a nice job in switching up play.
1. Not really possible with the way agricraft works. Also Garden soil not being untillable was fixed in 0.7.2
2. There are plans for the next version of Agricraft to make it so using shears to harvest things like flowers would give you the flower instead of the dye.
3. Spirit world isn't particularly functional currently, and I'm going to be making further tweaks to make it easier in the near future.