What is RF?

King Lemming

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Jul 29, 2019
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You make it sound like the BuildCraft Power Api prevents a mod author from inventing creative ways to produce and consume BuildCraft power. There is nothing in the BuildCraft power design that limits how a mod produce or consume power. Make a "big reactor" mod. Use MJ to power an Airplane. Add a battery.

The perdition in machines is the only "forced" element and that was an attempt to add game play to transportation as well. The idea was to add a problem that the player could solve by being creative with the pipes, gates and wiring. It asks the player to think before placing the pipes.

Was it the best way of doing it? Maybe not. A little bit of idle loss in a few machines becomes more of a gimmick when you have 3-4 RailCraft boilers running at 20% capacity in your basement. But I still think it is better than boring RF.
I actually said nothing of the sort. I stated what RF can do, not what BuildCraft can't do. And yes, you can do all of those things with MJ. You just have to work through a Helper Gremlin and its deputies. And you give up direct access to your own power. And you have forced loss, even when you check how much energy is in your tank. It's like Schrodinger's cat, except even if the cat is alive, it dies a little each time you check on it.

Forced loss in machines is fine. But don't harp on Redstone Flux not having lossy transmission - BuildCraft doesn't either. And we all know why - it's CPU inefficient and chews up a ton of time. It's actually a very solid design decision on BC's part to have the new pipes work as they do.

You can state that the forced perdition is the only "forced" element, and that's a really big thing, but hardly the only forced element. It's also the time trackers, power direction trackers, helper gremlins, and perdition calculators that bloats the API and makes it a bit intimidating. So it's not just "ease of use," but also a question of, "Do I want my tile entity to use 100 extra bytes in memory for a power API I never have full control of?"

Yes, you can do a lot of things with MJ. Nobody is going to dispute that. But it's also a walled garden, and you can't dispute that.
 

casilleroatr

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Jul 29, 2019
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It's like Schrodinger's cat, except even if the cat is alive, it dies a little each time you check on it.
I wouldn't normally like to quote a single throwaway line from a rather nuanced argument but this was just too beautiful. You might get a letter from the people who make the big bang theory asking you to start writing their jokes or something.
 

SandGrainOne

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Jul 29, 2019
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I actually said nothing of the sort. I stated what RF can do, not what BuildCraft can't do. And yes, you can do all of those things with MJ.
I never claimed that you said anything. I simply pointed out that you make it sound like the RF API is the only API with any freedom to create new types of consumers and producers while the truth is that all power API support this. The RF power API is essentially an empty shell and if it hadn't been for the example implementation in TE I don't think anyone would have used it.
 
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KingTriaxx

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Jul 27, 2013
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I wouldn't mind the constant draw on BC machines if I could redstone control the input. I can do it with RF after a fashion by turning off the energy cell. I can do it with IC2, by disconnecting the special cable, and I can do it with RC, by applying a signal to certain blocks, but not with BC. And yes, I do know about gates, but that's merely on/off for the entire system. I can't just disconnect say the carpenters or Rolling machines, and divert the power to fermenters and stills instead. I have to have the carpenters on a separate line.
 

Frontrider

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Jul 29, 2019
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Dear RF haters, i can tell you the same thing what i told to people not liking the modell system in 1.8:
If you don't like it, don't use it. No one forces you do it, so i can't see your problem. There will be more redstone powered pre-made packs in the future, cause theres more mods using rf. If you don't like it, choose one whitout it,or make your own packs, in your own taste ( like i do ).

If you want more non-flux based mods, then make more.

Some admin/mod could move the "bc is better" discussion (including my responses) to somwhere else? I wanted to see what people think about this mechanism, what could be made in this system while staying in-theme.

Just to give ideas to mod makers.
 

trajing

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Jul 29, 2019
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Dear RF haters, i can tell you the same thing what i told to people not liking the modell system in 1.8:
If you don't like it, don't use it. No one forces you do it, so i can't see your problem. There will be more redstone powered pre-made packs in the future, cause theres more mods using rf. If you don't like it, choose one whitout it,or make your own packs, in your own taste ( like i do ).

If you want more non-flux based mods, then make more.

Some admin/mod could move the "bc is better" discussion (including my responses) to somwhere else? I wanted to see what people think about this mechanism, what could be made in this system while staying in-theme.

Just to give ideas to mod makers.
>Go make more
We aren't all mod makers, buddy.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Dec 8, 2012
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I never claimed that you said anything. I simply pointed out that you make it sound like the RF API is the only API with any freedom to create new types of consumers and producers while the truth is that all power API support this. The RF power API is essentially an empty shell and if it hadn't been for the example implementation in TE I don't think anyone would have used it.
That's kind of the purpose of an API... to be the framework upon which compatibility rests. BC's API seems more designed to keep people's fingers out of his pies and force you to do things a certain way. Yes, you can do a lot of things that way, but it is far from the most efficient way to do so, and the API is constantly forcing you into doing things a certain specific way. It is limiting rather than enabling.

Which is why more and more mod authors are making the move to RF. And why more and more mod pack designers are looking for RF compatibility in their mod packs. Heck, I'm not even including BC, RC, or Forestry in my 1.7.x version of ShneekeyCraft. I've got TE, Mekanism, and MFR.
 

KurShedir

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Jul 29, 2019
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>Go make more
We aren't all mod makers, buddy.
Yeah, but learning to assemble and configure a modpack(or at least to reconfigure an existing one) may be useful for displeased players, and it's not as hard and time consuming as learn Java from scratch or mod a game.
 

Frontrider

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Jul 29, 2019
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*sigh*
i just don't like the "go learn java" mentality.
Thats not my mentality. In vanilla minecraft i'm a redstoner, i like making working things. This is my mentality.

Yeah, but learning to assemble and configure a modpack(or at least to reconfigure an existing one) may be useful for displeased players, and it's not as hard and time consuming as learn Java from scratch or mod a game.
Tech packs were too laggy for me, light2 wasnlt enough, so i rebuilt it in my own taste. Still tweaking, but it wasn't hard to start. Lots of restarted worlds, but i have a pack what i like to use.
 

hotblack desiato

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Jul 29, 2019
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the only problem I found with redflux is actually a forestry problem: when I hooked a forestry multifarm to my RF-network, the network started pumping tons of energy into that farm. then I grabbed a cheap leadstone redflux cell and used it as a flow limiter. worked like a charm... even worked so well that I placed those cells at every machine with high energy demand (and there are plenty of those machines which don't need to run at 100% all the time.
 

Frontrider

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Jul 29, 2019
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Possibly, because bc machines love rf. Since buildcraft is a bit laggy for me, i don't often use it, but when i did, dynamos made bc machines faster. No idle times while generating power.
 

Zeeth_Kyrah

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Jul 29, 2019
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the only problem I found with redflux is actually a forestry problem: when I hooked a forestry multifarm to my RF-network, the network started pumping tons of energy into that farm. then I grabbed a cheap leadstone redflux cell and used it as a flow limiter. worked like a charm... even worked so well that I placed those cells at every machine with high energy demand (and there are plenty of those machines which don't need to run at 100% all the time.
That's actually how I'm using them. I have a resonant energy cell beneath my energetic infuser, so it operates at full speed without draining my main base supply (which is feeding hardened conduits -- plenty as long as the central power bank has energy in it), and I've got a leadstone cell connected to several pink generators to make sure my laser drill has a constant trickle of energy going to it (instead of draining the pinks at maximum speed).

I've been debating whether to use an abbreviated torque (Newtons, instead of Newton-meters) for the mechanical power in Ultratech, or just use RF instead. If I went with Newtons, I'd still have RF conversion in the mod, but if I used RF primarily I'd only have to convert between the electric-styled power system... which could potentially also use RF, but with a different presentation to it. I'm really tempted to unify the mod around RF instead of have differing structures that only interact through converter devices (motors and generators, basically), because I'd like to focus more on the main theme of "going Ultra" and everything else in the mod is support for that. That would leave me free to split off the different groups of mechanics as their own mods in an Ultratech family, which is a very compelling argument right now.

I'd love to debate the relative value of using simplified torque vs straight-up RF, and of volts-and-amps electric vs RF.
 

King Lemming

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Jul 29, 2019
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I'd love to debate the relative value of using simplified torque vs straight-up RF, and of volts-and-amps electric vs RF.
Okay. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power

I'm a power engineer. I do this for a living. There's a reason I'm keeping it simple in Minecraft. If you're going to do volts and amps, but NOT do AC power, that's just a waste, as DC power is uninteresting. However, both AC and DC power are computationally horrible the way that Minecraft works.
 

TheCupcakeisaLie

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Jul 29, 2019
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Okay. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power

I'm a power engineer. I do this for a living. There's a reason I'm keeping it simple in Minecraft. If you're going to do volts and amps, but NOT do AC power, that's just a waste, as DC power is uninteresting. However, both AC and DC power are computationally horrible the way that Minecraft works.

pls mak ac powr for uther computer cores to mak minceraft more better

thx



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