Basically its stupid to paint them all with the same brush. Maybe some are elitist, that doesnt mean all of them are. Most modders are really awesome. But it is also silly to say that all moddders are great people with good intentions. You can't hate someone for what they don't say. However I think it is fair to dislike a modder for being rude to you on twitter right?
Forge: My list of grievances
- Thread starter Petrus
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But you don't get it.
They can't.
They've invested quite a bit of self worth into the concept of being a good person. So that means anybody they want to treat badly, or think badly of, can't possibly be a good person. Those people just have to be jerks.
No amount of logic is going to budge them. They are simply incapable of viewing the other party (the mod makers) as good people with rights who deserve to be respected. Even if I call GT a work of pure evil, I respect that gregT owns the work, and all (dis)honor that accompanies it.
That's why you get the absurd straw man arguments and the nitpicking replies and see so much of what you say just completely ignored.
Now if you had used those words before, saying there is always a reason, I would not have been offended, and even have agreed with you. Saying everyone has a reason for what they do is also kinda like saying the sky is blue. Duh.
But saying specifically that I and other YouTubers have an "agenda" has some pretty negative and insulting connotations in the context of the conversation. Diction is a powerful, and oft misused tool. Improve yours, and these misunderstandings you seem to keep having should decrease.
As I am not participating in this discussion and cannot be accused of bias here:
NO NAME CALLING. Y'all want to debate go for it. But leave the name calling to the toddlers and keep it civil or I will lock this thread and start bopping people on the head.
NO NAME CALLING. Y'all want to debate go for it. But leave the name calling to the toddlers and keep it civil or I will lock this thread and start bopping people on the head.
FWIW, I interpreted it the same way. I had a whole post typed out about the reasons why *I* did YouTube (that disproved your points), but decided to eat some chocolate instead.
If you are at least attempting to put your points forward for a meaningful debate or conversation, it is your responsibility to present them well so as to reduce the chance they are misunderstood. But, if you want to be like every other slob on the internet and abdicate on your responsibility of your half of the conversation, I can stop debating with you as well.
You are indeed not responsible for what we think while reading your words.
But you are responsible for wording your thoughts in this particular way, that made your whole post mostly offensive.
All we have to understand what you write is what is actually written, and that's one of the major flaws of communication in general, because nearly everything we can say can be interpreted an other way, and nobody except you can know what you were actually thinking.
It is very difficult to take those things into account while writing, and often jokes can be taken as pure insults, just because we don't have intonations and body language to add to the words.
When threading into a domain that is already quite a hot and flammable topic like that, you need to take precautions and try to read your text from other perspectives, so that you won't be misunderstood. Not saying it's easy, and most of us can only do it a little, but we are still to be blamed when most people take the wrong sense from what we wrote.
I feel like I should change my picture so people don't start thinking that I am you and hate me more
Consider it over. There's no way of presenting my beliefs bluntly without offending several people at once and I'm tired of sugarcoating as there's ultimately no advantage to clashing opinions on an internet discussion board. Frankly, I've lost interest several posts ago, resulting in these ramblings without any head or tail.
I started streaming because I thought it would be fun. And it is most of the time. I make no money, and that's that. I've since gotten invited to several servers to play on. (This was entirely unintentional)
Don't worry about offending people? This is the internet, everyone is butthurt about something.
Just wanted to point out here that you'r a bad person and should feel bad. Specifically because of the lack of self-responsibility represented in this quote.
This is totally wrong.
What it assumes is that there is an actual "right" and "wrong" in this scenario. There isn't. Viewed from a certain lens Forgecraft is an exclusionary club of modded minecraft kingmakers. They don't necessarily want to be that, they didn't necessarily mean to be that, and to many people they are not, but that perspective exists and there are events that support it.
The FC folks are a group of friends who achieved celebrity due to the accomplishments of their members. Were they a group of folks with no real minecraft-related accomplishments we'd probably care a lot less about who they invite to FC2, what mods they like, and what mods they loathe. Their natural condition is to be a group of friends that grows organically. But where they focus their attention is then amplified in this community by their celebrity.
On the one hand, they're normal people doing normal things. On the other hand, you could argue that the celebrity they've stumbled into means they have to start considering how potent their actions can be. You can argue they have a right to be normal people and you'd be right. You can also argue that they could consider how even their casual, off-the-cuff remarks can be echoed in their fanbase 100x over.
For example, Slowpoke's recent–and perhaps unwitting, given that he normally is a standup and fair guy–sexist conversation on his stream r.e. Eloraam. Now people are repeating the meme that Eloraam got where she was and has special treatment because she's a woman. Hooray: that toxic sentiment again. I do not think that is how he really feels, but since there was a few moments where it could be construed that he said that on his stream, we're now in a place where people are repeating it. Bummer, because how Eloraam got so popular was by delivering one of the best damn mods in minecraft history.
In any event, my experience is that you cannot tell someone, "Don't feel excluded." The very act of doing so makes them feel worse. So your post, well-intentioned as it was, is nearly as useless as the OP. It just won't do anything. Perhaps this post is equally so–oh well. I never said I wasn't a hypocrite.
The point is that most people participating in this discussion are completly unimportant for this community. We don't create mods or do anything that useful for this community. So how can we be in a situation to judge how modders behave in regards to their mods? We are simply not in the situation to tell them what is right.
And most modders, if not all, don't make mods to be viewed as a good person. They make mods because it is fun, and if we like this mods we should ensure that it stays that way. The only thing we achieve if we try to tell them what they should do is to make modding less fun for them, which decreases their productivity or even makes them stop modding. Being popular or getting some money via donations or whatever is not the goal for most modders, even if they could really need it. They mostly want to do something with a game they like and some choose to mod it or others like Slow made a new challange in form of a map. They primarly do this to enhance the experience of the game. In the first place for themself, but of course as soon as they release their work to a greater audience they are happy to see others enjoy their work.
That's why this argument does not make sense. Because we are not in any demanding position. And the accusation of being elitist is simply negated by the simple fact that although there is no real need to do it some of these elitist modders even took their time to respond here.
I typo'ed it. I happened to notice before I hit post, and I just didn't care to fix.
For that, I don't feel bad.
Also, you didn't capitalize the start of your sentence.
My view, FTB costs me exactly nothing, so I will use what I'm given and be happy with it. Will I make suggestions for improvements, ideas, etc? Absolutely. Will I make demands for things or try to command mod authors to respond? Nope. Do I care what people do on their servers or streams or that maybe they get a release before me? Nope. I don't concern myself with things that are beyond my control, or aren't really my business.
Moral of the story - It's rude to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Moral of the story - It's rude to look a gift horse in the mouth.
Technically it costs you some of the most important currency possible: Time. Theoretically, it counters that cost by bringing something to you, but that's entirely a personal weighing.
However, this idea that if something is free you get to have no opinion about it needs to be shot in the back of the head. In the town square. Chinese execution style.
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