Forge: My list of grievances

[Mash]

If you are at least attempting to put your points forward for a meaningful debate or conversation, it is your responsibility to present them well so as to reduce the chance they are misunderstood. But, if you want to be like every other slob on the internet and abdicate on your responsibility of your half of the conversation, I can stop debating with you as well.

As a person who spends a great deal of time debating controversial subjects... interpretation is a tricky business.

There are many, many people who will purposefully misinterpret a statement to prove a point, and then will claim that it only occurred because the original "misinterpreted" message was worded poorly or something to that effect. Often times they're actually not worded all that poorly.

Now, I do not think that you purposefully misunderstood what he was saying, but I do think that your bias took away your objectivity on the subject, which made it much easier to take offense to a questionably-worded message. Agenda was a poor word for him to use to accurately describe his meaning. His next line however used the word motive, which is a good deal more accurate. You have to take all the segments of his message into account to assure that you're not cherry-picking out a specific piece to make the post look worse(inadvertently or otherwise).

 

[Moezso]

Technically it costs you some of the most important currency possible: Time. Theoretically, it counters that cost by bringing something to you, but that's entirely a personal weighing.

However, this idea that if something is free you get to have no opinion about it needs to be shot in the back of the head. In the town square. Chinese execution style.

Technically, time is something I'm looking to burn whilst gaming. Specifically, spare time. FTB is a void pipe for my spare time. Now on the matter of opinion, yea, it's natural for everyone to have one, regardless of the topic or what it costs, I was simply saying that demanding for something that's (monetarily if not chronologically) free to be made to an individuals specifications is unreasonable.

 

[voidreality]

My view, FTB costs me exactly nothing, so I will use what I'm given and be happy with it. Will I make suggestions for improvements, ideas, etc? Absolutely. Will I make demands for things or try to command mod authors to respond? Nope. Do I care what people do on their servers or streams or that maybe they get a release before me? Nope. I don't concern myself with things that are beyond my control, or aren't really my business.

Moral of the story - It's rude to look a gift horse in the mouth.

Exactly. However, to the entitled generation everything is owed to them. This is why these type of stupid misguided "grievances" are even an issue.

However, this idea that if something is free you get to have no opinion about it needs to be shot in the back of the head. In the town square. Chinese execution style.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. And yours isn't that important either.

 

[Lambert2191]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. And yours isn't that important either.

I give a shit about Doc's opinion, which means it is more important than yours.

 

[Malkuth]

As a person who spends a great deal of time debating controversial subjects... interpretation is a tricky business.

There are many, many people who will purposefully misinterpret a statement to prove a point, and then will claim that it only occurred because the original "misinterpreted" message was worded poorly or something to that effect. Often times they're actually not worded all that poorly.

Now, I do not think that you purposefully misunderstood what he was saying, but I do think that your bias took away your objectivity on the subject, which made it much easier to take offense to a questionably-worded message. Agenda was a poor word for him to use to accurately describe his meaning. His next line however used the word motive, which is a good deal more accurate. You have to take all the segments of his message into account to assure that you're not cherry-picking out a specific piece to make the post look worse(inadvertently or otherwise).

I would have to agree with you on this one.. I listened to her reaction on the Slow Stream.. And she really Miss Represented.. The whole Hitler thing.. Even though it was a silly analysis to even mention hitler.. I don't think the Poster of said statement meant it the way she interpreted it. Even slowpoke said this.

I'm sorry to say it, but you have to be honest with yourself every once in awhile. Nobody is perfect and things happen.

 

[Hyperme]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. And yours isn't that important either.

Stupid proverbs are like sub atomic particles. They all have an antimatter counterpart with negative conservation numbers, and are annihilated on contact with said antimatter leaving nothing but energy.

The main point being that using a stupid proverb wins no arguments. Especially not internet arguments, where the wager is your pride and the judge is yourself.


Ontopic: Synonyms are not as synomymy as one might wish. Also debate purely through text requires proof reading.

More ontopic: Eh peeps share betas with people in a way to avoid leaks. Whatever.

 

[GPuzzle]

Be right back guys, I gotta refill my popcorn.

 

[Morvelaira]

I would have to agree with you on this one.. I listened to her reaction on the Slow Stream.. And she really Miss Represented.. The whole Hitler thing.. Even though it was a silly analysis to even mention hitler.. I don't think the Poster of said statement meant it the way she interpreted it. Even slowpoke said this.

I'm sorry to say it, but you have to be honest with yourself every once in awhile. Nobody is perfect and things happen.

Why does everyone confuse myself and Jadedcat? I did not discuss this thread on SlowPoke's livestream, nor do I discuss any threads here on the forums on any livestreams, because I do take my position as a global moderator seriously.

Though, I will say Mash - you bring a fair point. I do have a bias in this regard because I have been accused of such things several times in the past, by folks that arguably care less about being earnest than Everlast does. I've been accused of being in it for the money, or of being some sort of whore, floozy, or groupie to mod developers. There has to be some reason I do the things I do, after all... and Everlast is right, there is a reason. But no reason that anyone else has ever devised and informed me of even resembles respectable behavior, let alone the truth.

So, when I see a words like "agenda" and "motive", words that imply something subversive is happening, I sort of assume I am being attacked once again. While, honestly, assumptions should be avoided on the internet, it doesn't sound like an unreasonable one to me. Do you think differently?

 

[Hoff]

I would disagree with negative connotations of motive. After all it's the root word of motivation!

 

[Morvelaira]

It's also the word used when describing the reasoning behind a crime.

 

[Hoff]

It's also the word used when describing the reasoning behind a crime.

This is true. It brings a neutral connotation in my opinion because of the wide variety of the uses of it. Against a word like agenda it is extremely tame in my opinion.

 

[Mash]

Though, I will say Mash - you bring a fair point. I do have a bias in this regard because I have been accused of such things several times in the past, by folks that arguably care less about being earnest than Everlast does. I've been accused of being in it for the money, or of being some sort of whore, floozy, or groupie to mod developers. There has to be some reason I do the things I do, after all... and Everlast is right, there is a reason. But no reason that anyone else has ever devised and informed me of even resembles respectable behavior, let alone the truth.

So, when I see a words like "agenda" and "motive", words that imply something subversive is happening, I sort of assume I am being attacked once again. While, honestly, assumptions should be avoided on the internet, it doesn't sound like an unreasonable one to me. Do you think differently?

Agenda certainly implies negative connotations. To me, motive simply means a reason; in particular, a reason that isn't especially obvious or apparent to us spectators.

I think his point was, overall, that nothing done on Youtube is ever done altruistically(or at least, not by the popular youtubers). It's certainly not deplorable or wrong to want people to enjoy the effort that you have put into a video, but neither is it entirely altruistic. Youtubers put themselves into those videos.

I'm not even sure if altruistic is the right word for this.

 

[ICountFrom0]

This is totally wrong.

What it assumes is that there is an actual "right" and "wrong" in this scenario. There isn't. Viewed from a certain lens Forgecraft is an exclusionary club of modded minecraft kingmakers. They don't necessarily want to be that, they didn't necessarily mean to be that, and to many people they are not, but that perspective exists and there are events that support it.

The FC folks are a group of friends who achieved celebrity due to the accomplishments of their members. Were they a group of folks with no real minecraft-related accomplishments we'd probably care a lot less about who they invite to FC2, what mods they like, and what mods they loathe. Their natural condition is to be a group of friends that grows organically. But where they focus their attention is then amplified in this community by their celebrity.

You are telling me I'm wrong, and then you are agreeing with the point I was trying to make.

I'm saying that the POV of forgecraft being elitist has an emotional weighting, and that those who have invested themselves in it are not likely to change. Further I am saying that they cannot accept "as a fact" statements that directly contradict the POV that they have. I used my post to explain why they simply can't take our word for it that these people are okay, although not as well as I would have liked.

 

[Slaagathor]

Is it even possible to be entirely altruistic? Even if the selfless person gets nothing other than gratification from helping someone else, they're still getting something.

 

[Mash]

Is it even possible to be entirely altruistic? Even if the selfless person gets nothing other than gratification from helping someone else, they're still getting something.

Mm, probably not.

So, even if it's stating the absolute obvious, he is still technically correct.

 

[Morvelaira]

Fair warning for the thread, and honestly the forums at large. If you do something to earn a temporary ban, coming back with a second account and harassing the moderators at large will earn you a permanent one. We don't ban people because we don't like them - if that was the case a few people in this thread would have been gone a while ago. We ban when there are rules broken, and no other time.

(Blue means moderator voice. Everything else I've said in this thread has been me, speaking as a person, not a moderator.)

 

[DoctorOr]

I propose that Morvelaira streams for the sole purpose of getting access to private stocks of cat pictures.

 

[Morvelaira]

Drat. You've figured out my true, hidden agenda! *rolleyes*

 

[Hoff]

Obviously she streams to...

Spoiler

She Who Brings the Doom and Cuteness!™

 

[Virgoddess]

Why does everyone confuse myself and Jadedcat? I did not discuss this thread on SlowPoke's livestream, nor do I discuss any threads here on the forums on any livestreams, because I do take my position as a global moderator seriously.

Though, I will say Mash - you bring a fair point. I do have a bias in this regard because I have been accused of such things several times in the past, by folks that arguably care less about being earnest than Everlast does. I've been accused of being in it for the money, or of being some sort of whore, floozy, or groupie to mod developers. There has to be some reason I do the things I do, after all... and Everlast is right, there is a reason. But no reason that anyone else has ever devised and informed me of even resembles respectable behavior, let alone the truth.

So, when I see a words like "agenda" and "motive", words that imply something subversive is happening, I sort of assume I am being attacked once again. While, honestly, assumptions should be avoided on the internet, it doesn't sound like an unreasonable one to me. Do you think differently?

I'm sorry. It can be tough to be a female in a male dominated environment (I mean gaming in general here). Being called names like whore (or being asked to show my boobs constantly) is the main reason I quit YouTube. Sometimes you just can't win.