Eloraam has not disappeared. (random half related topics)

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EternalDensity

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Jul 29, 2019
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Who cares about losing 300+ stacks of cobble?

Also, if you use AE, moving storage is much easier since you just move the drives...
 

RedBoss

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Jul 29, 2019
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...
Move your house?
I've never understood that tendency to squat on your spawn no matter what. my first 15 minutes of gameplay have me at least 1000 blocks from spawn until i'm happy with the terrain and done with pillaging villages for a while.

From what I saw on docm77's snapshot vid, the horse and lasso mechanics are as buggy as in the mod. Yes its an update but not to my tastes, but that my opinion and they are in a position to fix things. If anything they really need to add storage abilities to these horses. That'd make them very useful in vanilla. What is a mule good for other than packing your stuff about the place?
 

Jyzarc

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Jul 29, 2019
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I've never understood that tendency to squat on your spawn no matter what. my first 15 minutes of gameplay have me at least 1000 blocks from spawn until i'm happy with the terrain and done with pillaging villages for a while.

From what I saw on docm77's snapshot vid, the horse and lasso mechanics are as buggy as in the mod. Yes its an update but not to my tastes, but that my opinion and they are in a position to fix things. If anything they really need to add storage abilities to these horses. That'd make them very useful in vanilla. What is a mule good for other than packing your stuff about the place?
They are buggy but it IS a snapshot. I am really excited about them. They probably wont be that useful but I just think they are more of a "fun" addition. Storage could be really useful for exploring for a long time. Of course that really only applied to vanilla
 

RavynousHunter

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Updates cause problems for mods.
And fixes to make the game run more smoothly? Why not? You may have a computer that can handle it, but I don't. When you see Minecraft, you don't think of "beast to run, need supercomputer". You may think "Hmm, cool recreational game when I have an hour to spare" (well, before you get obsessed :p).
Skyrim, on the other hand, I would think of "Wow, what a huge game! I'll need all the bells and whistles to pull this one off."

Why are these roles switched? You need a medium spec'd computer to play skyrim reasonably. You need a medium spec'd computer to play modded minecraft, and you still get issues! I just want to be able to play Minecraft on a mid level laptop that came out in 2009. I don't need extreme+128, or fancy graphics, All I need is tiny, fast graphics, and no animations, staying in the same 10 or so chunks, on a server (so my computer doesn't have to do all the work) and I STILL have issues!

I'm not the only one that thinks this?! My god, has someone checked the temperature in hell? I think Satan might need a jacket.

Part of the lag, I'm sure, is up to a very...broad design, meant to target as many machines as possible, something which Java is, admittedly, not too bad at. However, that incurs overhead, and the more general you get, the more overhead you incur; its a balancing act that you've got to be very careful with, lest you release a graphically simple game that runs all its graphics on the CPU. Like its the 90s. Besides that, what extra is earned by targeting, say, Linux machines? 1-2% of the market? Even if half the Linux users on the planet bought and played Minecraft, that's still going to be a very minute percentage (again, likely 1-2%) of your overall user base. They tried to reach as many computers as humanly possible, and in doing so, sacrificed performance and, by extension, gameplay to a degree.

The other part is Java itself, or rather, its virtual machine. Time and again, I've found that Java programs take longer to start and consume more resources than something similar made in, say, .Net. I'll give you an example, on my laptop (which is good enough to run Guild Wars 2 on minimum graphics with reasonable FPS), the standalone IC2 Nuclear Reactor Planner (v3) takes anywhere from 3-5 seconds to start up, and according to Task Manager, consumes around 60 meg in memory. Too fucking long, and too fucking much, in other words. Yeah, that program might have some pretty complex math behind it, I'm not saying that it doesn't, but...something like that should really have at most -half- that much memory usage, and start almost instantly. Its bulky, its cumbersome, and worst of all, its inefficient. That inefficiency means greater resource demand, and that means lag.

I honestly wonder -why- Mojang even made Minecraft in Java in the first place. Damn near every game nowadays is made with C++, and extended by scripts in something like Lua, Python, or some homebrew language. Why? Because C++ compiles directly into machine code, no interpretation layer necessary, it. Just. Runs. Want to target multiple platforms? C++ can do that. Yeah, it'd take a little extra work, but if you ask me, that work is worth it if it spells a better experience for your end users. If they'd -insist- on going with an interpreted language...why not go with one of the .Net languages? All you need for cross-platform capabilities there is Mono, and in my experience, .Net programs run a fair deal faster than what I've experienced with Java.

I'm almost tempted to make a clone of the IC2 Reactor Planner in C# just to prove my point.
 
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Lambert2191

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Jul 29, 2019
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Has anyone asked where shadwDrgn is yet?
yes, no one knows.[DOUBLEPOST=1366363070][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh, in regards Azanor, I saw on Dire's last Forgecraft 1 episode that he signed into FC2, so yeah that's good news at least. (Although I'm not on MCF where he is aparently still active so yeah idk)
 

Ako_the_Builder

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Jul 29, 2019
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yes, no one knows.[DOUBLEPOST=1366363070][/DOUBLEPOST]Oh, in regards Azanor, I saw on Dire's last Forgecraft 1 episode that he signed into FC2, so yeah that's good news at least. (Although I'm not on MCF where he is aparently still active so yeah idk)

Thanks, just checking, soul shards can have a significant impact on endgame stuff, surprised I've not seen it mentioned more.

I'll just use a combination of bees and mfr myself if he has given it up, hope that he is still updating though it's a really cool mod, just hope the anvil stuff gets removed as that makes it a bit too cheap.
 

steelblueskies

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Jul 29, 2019
141
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I'm not the only one that thinks this?! My god, has someone checked the temperature in hell? I think Satan might need a jacket.

Part of the lag, I'm sure, is up to a very...broad design, meant to target as many machines as possible, something which Java is, admittedly, not too bad at. However, that incurs overhead, and the more general you get, the more overhead you incur; its a balancing act that you've got to be very careful with, lest you release a graphically simple game that runs all its graphics on the CPU. Like its the 90s. Besides that, what extra is earned by targeting, say, Linux machines? 1-2% of the market? Even if half the Linux users on the planet bought and played Minecraft, that's still going to be a very minute percentage (again, likely 1-2%) of your overall user base. They tried to reach as many computers as humanly possible, and in doing so, sacrificed performance and, by extension, gameplay to a degree.

The other part is Java itself, or rather, its virtual machine. Time and again, I've found that Java programs take longer to start and consume more resources than something similar made in, say, .Net. I'll give you an example, on my laptop (which is good enough to run Guild Wars 2 on minimum graphics with reasonable FPS), the standalone IC2 Nuclear Reactor Planner (v3) takes anywhere from 3-5 seconds to start up, and according to Task Manager, consumes around 60 meg in memory. Too fucking long, and too fucking much, in other words. Yeah, that program might have some pretty complex math behind it, I'm not saying that it doesn't, but...something like that should really have at most -half- that much memory usage, and start almost instantly. Its bulky, its cumbersome, and worst of all, its inefficient. That inefficiency means greater resource demand, and that means lag.

I honestly wonder -why- Mojang even made Minecraft in Java in the first place. Damn near every game nowadays is made with C++, and extended by scripts in something like Lua, Python, or some homebrew language. Why? Because C++ compiles directly into machine code, no interpretation layer necessary, it. Just. Runs. Want to target multiple platforms? C++ can do that. Yeah, it'd take a little extra work, but if you ask me, that work is worth it if it spells a better experience for your end users. If they'd -insist- on going with an interpreted language...why not go with one of the .Net languages? All you need for cross-platform capabilities there is Mono, and in my experience, .Net programs run a fair deal faster than what I've experienced with Java.

I'm almost tempted to make a clone of the IC2 Reactor Planner in C# just to prove my point.


i'd just like to say as to expectations for what hardware to run things.. one chunk is 16x16x255 blocks. that means each chunk requires tracking something on the order of 6 million blocks, before even accounting for block interactions, entities, lighting, texturing, or anything at all else.

when one reflects on the odds of a good 9x9 region of chunks loading around the player that starts to look a great deal more like database numbers. database handling is not el suprem' de cheap for good performance either.

so perhaps it has more to do with what one knows and how that shapes expectations.

that said i generally have to agree on the finding it odd as to the language choice. worse is that apparently the engine does some derpy heavy handed things like the full texturemap push every tick we've heard about. but the use of a jvm which cannot take full advantage of hardware virtualization thus added another layer, to what is still viewed as more of an interpreted language(ala python vs c/c++) and the lack of hardware acceleration for same.. well i guess it was what was to hand. if i wasn't aware of some of the boost libraries bignum/apm math bits, i might think the arbitrary precision math routines and huge array functions available in java might have something to do with it, given the dimensions and such used for the world. hard to tell, haven't specifically looked into if it goes that route instead of nested arrays or somesuch and i haven't gotten a real deep look through mc code, still mostly trying to snipe certain functions in my exploration.

to that end however, i know the IEEE has some articles on java acceleration hardware, and i swear i recall seeing java accelerator add on cards. i wonder if they still exist, and if they might actually have an impact on mc performance.

of course better in the general sense would be getting mc multicore support, although at that point i'd wager half the mods would vanish as coding in that style is . . . special. goodness knows i don't understand it well in practice, and certainly not for something big, complex and largely capable of parallel workload division for the lions share of what it does, not just splitting audio and rendering, and networking apart.

also with respect to mods making it worse.
well aside from the doing more aspect, many modders are humans.
humans you see are inherently lazy. when humans are faced with the prospect of doing something complicated to add features to something already complicated, which in turn add features to something that itself is fairly complicated, while being faced with the possibility of changes to the last core source of complexity they are tacking on to potentially changing and breaking their work...

/breathes

..they tend to favor skipping a layer of complexity even if it could offer reductions in cpu sucking spammage and preferring people spam the mid tier addons instead of offering a higher logical tier addon which is in fact a separate and distinct thing doing twice the work at the same cpu cost as the other bit.

grins.
then when someone actually does do that, some guy comes along and says "o.p.", and the other humans double their requirements of that fellows sleeker systems output ,starting the escalating need to spam cpu eaters yet again.

humans are strange. of everything discussed, and the discussions themselves, this is ever affirmed.
 

Dravarden

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Jul 29, 2019
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i'd just like to say as to expectations for what hardware to run things.. one chunk is 16x16x255 blocks.

chunks are not 16x16x255, well, they are, but they only load 16x16x an area of blocks, so for example, in the nether chunks are 16x16x127 because there is nothing above the bedrock, now, if you place a block, it will load that chunk 16x16x143.
 
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