[1.7.10] Survival industry [rotarycraft based tech]

[keybounce]

So have you ever read a scroll of genocide while confused?

Polymorph is wonderful, by the way .

 

[reteo]

I don't think I've ever tried that. I just tend to enjoy those wonderful moments during hallucination when two other creatures (usually my pet and some monster) fight, only to see something like: "The microscopic space fleet hits the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal. The grue is killed!"

 

[keybounce]

If you read genocide while confused, you genocide all @'s.

It's not fatal if you are polymporphed, and stay polymorphed.

 

[reteo]

Meh. If I have polymorph, I tend to use it for polypiling.

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[reteo]

In any event, the progression pickaxe problem has been solved, and yes, there will be mechanics for right-click placement and 3x3 mining. TiC and all its addons (as well as TF and TD) can be safely removed. There's just the matter of testing to avoid another broken release. Also, Ztones and Refined Relocation will be included in the next version, which may happen when v10 of Reika's mods are released (unless testing is quickly conclusive). I'm also waiting on permission for one key mod.

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[Jetsetlemming]

How do you make Forestry stuff? I can't find any of it in NEI, and a bunch of stuff has no visible recipes like the beealyzer.

Also, I kinda hate the seasons mod (harder world? something like that?). It's a great concept, but I feel the execution is just really lackluster and distracting. The dying trees are ugly and seemingly random, their lifespans don't fit with the seasonal changes, the seasonal changes mess up the map badly, have weird borders, the changes feel really abrupt with no autumn/spring, winter seems to last forever, and honestly I just don't want to have to wait out winter in a videogame about having fun and building stuff. It's not like Harvest Moon, where the time of year matters in a bunch of ways. It's just "winter sux, summer rulez". I thought it might just be my location or setup last time I played, but I started a new game for the recent update the bugs and annoyances were still there. Ice randomly disappears from frozen bodies of water, leaving thawed rivers and lakes turbulent whirlpools. Lines between temperature areas are frequently straight and cleanly divided. Kapok tufts litter the ground everywhere in jungles due to trees dying. I could go on, there's just lots of distracting things that build up throughout experiencing that mod's contributions to the pack that are annoying in total.

 

[reteo]

I'll look into Forestry to see what's up. As for "Harder Wildlife," what kind of changes do you feel would need to be made to make it fit better?

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[Jetsetlemming]

I feel doubtful that there could be anything done on the modpack maker side for it. It's making global changes on a game that has no "global" anything except time of day. The map and chunks only update when you get near them and make them become active again. This feels like it causes pretty significant lag spikes on traveling as it's updating the climate of every single chunk as you move, bringing in snow, swapping water for ice, etc. Plus, you know, general bugs like the ice vanishing, leaving gaps in bodies of water. Dunno how that could be addressed. I feel like the pack would survive without the mod.

As for forestry, I looked in the configs. In modules.cfg,

    # Adds a wide variety of machines to craft, produce and process products.
    B:factory=false

    # Adds automatic farms and harvesters for a wide variety of products.
    B:farming=false

These two lines stick out. I changed them to "true" and the missing Forestry blocks like the Carpenter and Centrifuge, and recipes using them (that Carpenter block is used a lot ) are back in the game. There's also two lines for interaction with Agricraft and Harvestcraft, both in the pack, both lines also set to false. Don't know the particulars of the interaction though, if that's intentional.

edit: This stupid winter has also reduced the temperature of my blast furnace to 580, just low enough to prevent me making HSLA steel.

edit2: also I've been wanting to try out this new boat the pack has, the punt, but the oceans are frozen

 

[reteo]

Those forestry changes were actually intentional; remember that this pack's primary tech progression is through RotaryCraft, and I didn't want to allow things like multifarms from distracting from the RoC fan farms. I did want to allow bee products, but from what I understand, RoC machines like the centrifuge can replace Forestry's machines. I've not used bees personally, though, so I honestly don't know what's needed to effectively use them. That machines were you looking for, and what do they do, and are you sure RoC can't replace their functionality?

As for the lag spikes, I'm not sure if that's harder wildlife or Custom Ore Generation. Still, you make good points for me to consider on the use of that mod. The HSLA-related problems in particular could make the mod problematic overall. I'll have to reconsider its place in the pack, and possibly return farming challenges to Hunger Overhaul.

Does anyone else agree with this? Is Harder Wildlife a problem? If so, what kind of problems have you been having?

 

[Jetsetlemming]

The Carpenter is the crafting block for Forestry. You need it to make most things in the pack, like the Apiary (without the carpenter, you only have the basic "bee house" that can't use frames, and thus is far slower), for example. Beyond the apiary you then can build the Aveary, which is a multiblock bee house that can be climate controlled (the climate requirement of bees is another aspect of the game harder wildlife messes with). I honestly haven't done a ton with Forestry either, not since at least, like, MC 1.4 maybe.

 

[reteo]

I see... Okay, I'll look into re-enabling the factory.

 

[reteo]

What I am probably going to do:

I will not be removing harder wildlife. However, I will disable seasons for now, seeing as how they do mess with the mechanics of RotaryCraft. I will make the trees live much longer (so they don't die off so fast), but I would like to keep the autoplanting mechanics. Crop slowing will be returned to Hunger Overhaul, but that means that they will be slowed down across the board, rather than only during winter. I'm going to keep the rawhide mechanic, as well as the increased drops from mobs.

As for Forestry, the factory module will be re-enabled, but not the farming module.

 

[keybounce]

I've played a lot with Harder Wildlife, and the tree death/regrowth is actually something I find enjoyable.

Yes, having trees with a lifespan of about 1-2 years seems odd. But the whole point of a game like this is that time is faster than normal.

I think the big thing is this: Vanilla minecraft is a static world. Harder Wildlife gives a dynamic world -- animals, trees, and ground cover all change over time.

EDIT: I haven't tossed RoC and RR together yet. I thought Reika's DragonAPI used it's own concepts of temperature, and ignored anything from biome wrappers / the harder wildlife seasonal effects. Was I wrong?

 

[Draco18s]

I feel doubtful that there could be anything done on the modpack maker side for it. It's making global changes on a game that has no "global" anything except time of day. The map and chunks only update when you get near them and make them become active again. This feels like it causes pretty significant lag spikes on traveling as it's updating the climate of every single chunk as you move, bringing in snow, swapping water for ice, etc. Plus, you know, general bugs like the ice vanishing, leaving gaps in bodies of water. Dunno how that could be addressed. I feel like the pack would survive without the mod.

Sorry you don't like it. It was an attempt to give some life to the world and a lot of the problems you have are due to the fundamental underlying nature of vanilla in how it handles various things. For example, the chunk boundary color differences is due to the fact that:
1) Vanilla assumes that biome temperature and rainfall values are static, these values then determine the grass/leaf color
2) Vanilla doesn't re-render a chunk until it detects a change that requires it to be re-rendered
Because of the first assumption, changing those values doesn't trigger the second assumption. Enforcing the re-rendering to happen would cause more lag as my systems flag an increased number of chunks for rendering updates (even if it doesn't happen very often, it would cause a noticeable spike).

I don't know what's going on with the ice just disappearing, leaving gaps. I've never seen anything like that (aside from finite fluids and a dropping sea level).

Anyway, you're free to dislike the mod; I don't care. There are config options to disable all of that stuff, use them. If you've got suggestions on how to do it better, share them. Just keep in mind, there are a huge number of underlying assumptions vanilla made that I cannot change. One of the problems that seasons causes with Forestry bees and RotaryCraft stuff has to do with the fact that there isn't a context-sensitive access to the requisite values like there is for a lot of other things. Vanilla never needed that context.

 

[reteo]

Actually, I like the mod. I've disabled the seasons in the next version for now; I was going to see who to approach regarding this issues when I had time... I figured the solution would involve communication between you and the other mod authors (and Reika is a sure thing where cross compatibility is concerned). As for the bees, it seems to me that the reaction is completely realistic... Insects are dormant in the winter.

In fact, the reason I added the mod was to make the player plan for the winter, so their stores would keep them alive until spring.

The rest of the mod is still active. Trees are set to live longer, and animals are unchanged.

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[Draco18s]

Oh I know you like it, Reteo.
As for compatibility with RoC, I'm not sure it's possible. As I said before, there's no context-sensitive version of biome.getTemp() or biome.getRain(); that is, one that passes a world and xyz. I'm at the point at which I don't want to deal with Reika's API as he changes things without using deprecation (not to mention poor documentation).

The only way it "might" happen is if he wants to ask me for some API calls in my mods to give him the data he wants.

 

[reteo]

Well, you made crops context-specifit to indoor environments, right? I mean, that's why greenhouses work. Or am I mistaken? If not, why can't there be an API call to determine if a block is "indoors," and let the mod author handle the logic?

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[Draco18s]

Well, you made crops context-specifit to indoor environments, right? I mean, that's why greenhouses work. Or am I mistaken? If not, why can't there be an API call to determine if a block is "indoors," and let the mod author handle the logic?

I did it manually myself for all the crops I modify. I already have the context, I don't need to request it.
And I can certainly add that API call, but it's more along the lines of needing to know what "indoor" means. I need a use-case to determine what kinds of API methods I need to add.

 

[DriftinFool]

Just found this modpack and love the concept. Always have been a fan of RoC and tech mods while doing my best to avoid magic packs. I've avoided many of the HQM packs because I simple don't want to play blood magic, witchery, or Thaumcraft. They just aren't my thing, so this pack is perfect.

But I am having a problem. I started a new world yesterday and after a few hours, I started getting a lag spike every few seconds which made the game unplayable. In the F3 menu when I started the world, the allocated memory use was at 2780 or so but after some time playing, it went up to the full 100%, which is 3800 and stuck there which was causing the lag spikes. It seems like there's a memory leak of some kind. Just wondering if anyone else has had an issue with it. I had the launcher set to use 3.75 gigs of ram from when I playing Infinity with texture packs.

 

[reteo]

Fair enough; I'm not an OO programmer, so I'm a poor source of advice for specifics. I'll probably report this as a mod interaction issue with Reika, and see what he thinks about it. He might even have a way of adding season detection to DragonAPI (where he seems to keep all the major physics calculations to his mods).

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