The ftb packs should have the IC2 addons on them agian. If IC2 lacks content or is boring then the addons fix that. I don't get how they can call Monster and Unleashed a replacement for Ultimate if they doesn't have Advanced Machines, Gravitation Suite or GregTech (not even easy mode).
Why don't people like IC2 anymore?
- Thread starter TheBaconator
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Previous packs were geared around IC2 as the main tech mod at the time. A lot of different mods are now available that do similar things. And FTB has moved away from using IC2 as the backbone of the tech tree. The packs are already some of the largest we have made. Adding more mods means we have to remove some to make it playable for the average player. If you don't like what is in the packs, make your own pack.
And as far as Gregtech there's the whole issue of being mutually exclusive with T-Con in modpacks.
I have GregTech and TiC in my pack and it works perfectly, what you're talking about was a while back. And, I'm just fine with Adv Machines and GraviSuite without GT.[DOUBLEPOST=1391131987][/DOUBLEPOST]
Oh I never said I don't like the packs, in fact, I love them. I'm just saying, Monster and Unleashed feel nothing like Ultimate.
You misunderstand. The mod authors have both requested that these mods not be included in the same mod pack. It isn't a coding incompatibility (anymore), it is a request on the part of the mod authors which the FTB team respects and honors.
And why should they? Time marches on. Ultimate was fun, Monster and Unleashed are fun. They might be a different type of fun, but they are fun, and that is kinda the whole goal of a mod pack... to be fun.
This doesnt explain why there are no gregtech packs. Because they dont want to be used in the same pack, we get packs with TiC but not gregtech? It seems people want a pack like Ultimate. Unhinged is a purist (almost) gregtech type pack, and with mostly older mods. Why not make a newer pack with gregtech to provide people with end game items, but then include the more fun mods to make things crazy, like in Ultimate? The things slowpoke talked about in his pinned gregtech thread are all resolved, and obviously if gregtech was big enough to be addressed specifically by him, its a popular mod. To me ftb has just decided that if people want to use gregtech, they need to add it on their own. Maybe politics? Some politicking has to be going on. Like, why are chickenchunks in every pack, and yet even creeperhost support told me "get rid of all chickenbones mods except NEI" because they cause so many issues? Why not use dimensional anchors? They are just as configurable as chickenchunks and apparently dont corrupt worlds.
On topic, because i just thought of this and wondered why no one has done it... couldn't someone use Minetweaker to adjust recipes to make IC2 more like the old mod that people seem to miss? Couldnt you make a recipe that says 'put iron ingot into furnace, get iron plate'? There you go, refined iron is back again. Im just digging into minetweaker and it seems this mod would let people use IC2 the way it used to be, if they wanted to. Once someone wrote up a good script, it could be shared or even added to the universal configs, as an option for people. Wouldnt this solve most of the issues that people talked about in this thread?
you could even change gregtech with enough work. Fusion coil = 3 gold and 6 wheat seeds. Or whatever you want. Bam! no more tedium. No more threads arguing about tedium or whatever. Everyone just use the recipes you enjoy.
All chunk loaders have the same issues. No one has made chunkloaders that don't have bugs yet. And the modpack devs are not going to rewrite IC2.
Gregtech is an IC2 addon. FTB has moved away from IC2 being the core foundation tech mod. That means less IC2 addons. And none of the packs are currently set up to be conversion packs based on IC2. So Gregtech does not fit.
Sorry, but I like to play mods as they're intended to be made.
Seriously, when you combine hundred+ mods in one pack the "intent" from the original mod-author is gone. If you play an FTB pack, you play as the pack team intended, not the mod itself. Not that it would be a bad thing, I just not so different as what zorn described.
I don't belong here anyway, I still love ic2 and keep using it.
As to people asking why not remake Ultimate/Unleashed etc. A lot of the mods have changed. Some of those mods aren't even around anymore. It would be a difficult job to recreate and it still wouldn't be the same pack. The original pack creator that made Ultimate retired in 1.4 . So I and Eyamaz would have to try and reinterpret his vision with missing mods and mods that are completely different. What was great about Ultimate was it didn't feel like 40 mods tossed together willy nilly. The mods worked together and it felt like a balanced game and not like there was too many choices. That same design is still in place in Magic Farm and Horizons and Lite 2. It wasn't about GT or IC2 or Redpower, it was about the mods combining in a way that felt like a cohesive game not just a group of mods.
Those type cohesive packs take time to make. And a lot of tiny tweaks. To do that level of cohesiveness the modpack creator has to feel inspired to create something that is more than the sum of its parts.
During 1.4 IC2 and GregTech were at the top of their game. They are still amazing mods. But other mods have shown up that have more stability and appeal to more of the user base. During 1.4 almost all mod addons were for IC2. It made sense to base packs around IC2. That is not the case currently. While we realize that many users know and love the traditional mods, the modpack dev team is interested in delivering new fresh content for our users. And based on the popularity of the various packs, most users prefer to explore new ideas. If you always play the exact same pack, you eventually run out of things to do. Also during 1.4 there were not as many mods as there are now. It was easier to stand out as a needed foundation mod in 1.4. In 1.6 we have a lot of mods that all do similar things in similar ways, so other considerations come into play. If I only have 1-2 mods to pick from that do the same thing I can include both. If I have 10 mods that do the same thing, I have to start making choices. FTB has a wide range of modpacks currently, from "total conversion" to "incredibly small" to "new cutting edge" to "massive all the things" packs. No MC version has had more public packs available for users. And that's without including other launchers.
IC2 is still in 3 out of 8 packs. GT is not because it does not fit our current packs. Other modpack creators may get inspired by GT and make packs available with GT, but our focus has moved in a different direction. Both mods are still good mods, but with the current selection available they are just not mods we plan to base a pack around. There are just too many other options.
Those type cohesive packs take time to make. And a lot of tiny tweaks. To do that level of cohesiveness the modpack creator has to feel inspired to create something that is more than the sum of its parts.
During 1.4 IC2 and GregTech were at the top of their game. They are still amazing mods. But other mods have shown up that have more stability and appeal to more of the user base. During 1.4 almost all mod addons were for IC2. It made sense to base packs around IC2. That is not the case currently. While we realize that many users know and love the traditional mods, the modpack dev team is interested in delivering new fresh content for our users. And based on the popularity of the various packs, most users prefer to explore new ideas. If you always play the exact same pack, you eventually run out of things to do. Also during 1.4 there were not as many mods as there are now. It was easier to stand out as a needed foundation mod in 1.4. In 1.6 we have a lot of mods that all do similar things in similar ways, so other considerations come into play. If I only have 1-2 mods to pick from that do the same thing I can include both. If I have 10 mods that do the same thing, I have to start making choices. FTB has a wide range of modpacks currently, from "total conversion" to "incredibly small" to "new cutting edge" to "massive all the things" packs. No MC version has had more public packs available for users. And that's without including other launchers.
IC2 is still in 3 out of 8 packs. GT is not because it does not fit our current packs. Other modpack creators may get inspired by GT and make packs available with GT, but our focus has moved in a different direction. Both mods are still good mods, but with the current selection available they are just not mods we plan to base a pack around. There are just too many other options.
I see it much simpler: gregtech is the only mod that offers big goals. Ultimate offered people a way to obtain those without the huge grind that you get with just ic2 and gregtech. Turtles, EE3, soul shards... its much easier to run an implosion compressor when you can anvil together some souls shards and whip up a creeper spawner in 10 minutes, vs trying to do it Greg's way. Without gregtech, no mods have big end game goals. Its why reddit's TPPI pack has gregtech, and its why they set up gregtech on easy mode. Obviously they are just one other forum, but Im just saying this is not my own opinion. I think ultimate was too easy, so im not defending my own preferences here.
As for chickenchunks... the creeperhost support people disagree with you I guess. So far after ditching all the chickenchunks mods, i have very stable worlds. Other people have advised me of the same thing. Quite a few people actually.
If people were bored with IC2, then why is this thread longer than any other discussion about any mod? Why does gregtech get a special post from Slowpoke, but now that his reasons are all resolved, still no gregtech pack? most of the discussion is about how people just disliked the changes. Thermal Expansion is, for most people here I would think, as 'old' as IC2, they both existed when i started a year ago. But no one is canning Thermal Expansion. Its not like the new content is that much more 'new' than IC2 ore washing is.
Magicfarm is really mostly older standard mods that people here have played over and over. Thaumcraft, mfr, TE. Why are they not old and stale, but IC2 is?
The reality is that IC3 with the addons and gregtech offers more content than 20 other mods combined. This is why people liked ultimate. It offered all that content, but the other modds like computer craft and EE3, etc. made the task of going through it all not so... tedious. 0_o So today we get 5 mods that all have new and improved pipes (ender IO, extra utils, etc.) and this is better content than what IC2 offered?
IC2 and gregtech offer true game progression. You start with a manual process that is lossy and inefficient, and you progress to a semi automated option that is more efficient, then again up a tier to even more efficiency. Forestry offers this somewhat with bees and even tree breeding. Multifarms and tree breeding, etc. No other mods really give you this.
That reminds me... forestry. Youre telling me that IC2 is old and needed to be retired, but forestry gets put in all of them? if anything has been done 1000 times with no new content that ive seen, its forestry. And I love that mod! Just saying the idea that some mods are just old and need to move over doesn't make sense to me.
If you start reading old forum posts about flowerchild and eloraam and spacetoad, it seems that there is a lot of politics and egos going on in the background. ot me it jsut seems that there is something like this going on here. There is no good reason not to have a gregtech pack. When people like Shneeky is saying "Oh TiC and gregtech forbid it!' as a lame excuse, it makes my spidey sense tingle. Just make a pack without tinkers construct. Problem solved.[DOUBLEPOST=1391623107][/DOUBLEPOST]
Not me, but although I suggested minetweaker here for the people that are frustrated with ic2, im using it in reverse, like trying to use it to make Turtles cost more. Is it bad that i am not using computercraft in the way that Dan200 intended it? The whole idea kind of fails once you install two mods. Can you install EE3 and have any other mod work as intended after that?
if you think about it, any mod is basically allowing people to play minecraft in a way notch didn't intend it to be played. Is this bad? Minetweaker "lets me mod the mods".
Or maybe not, have to really figure it out still myself.
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As much as i wish it. Im fine with minetweaking stuff like OP items.
But a mods ''core'' mechanic or something thats basicly the ''main crafting component'' Shouldn't be changed.
And i don't make stuff less hard to get. I always try to do the reverse.
So in my opinion: Making stuff more difficult to get: I like
Making stuff more easy to get: I never do it and i don't like it.
Zorn, at the risk of getting this thread locked for getting too personal, I'd invite you to go back and re-read slowpoke's post about the reasons why Gregtech isn't being included in the new packs.
It's not just that Gregtech and TiC can't be in the same modpacks. It's that a lot of other mod developers beyond just TiC are unhappy with the level of conversion that Gregtech does to their mods and have been getting vocal about not wanting to handle dealing with tech support woes that comes with it. This is largely why Unhinged was much smaller and had a lot less mods than Unleashed.
If you want to call that "politicking" then sure, it probably is. But when Gregtech (and Gregtech alone) annoys other mod developers to that extent, you can't blame the FTB modpack creators for trying to avoid that tension. They are volunteers after all, and build the packs to suit their personal tastes as much as anything else.
Really, if you want to have a modpack with Gregtech in it, you'd probably be best off building it yourself and asking permission from FTB to include it in the launcher as a public pack.
It's not just that Gregtech and TiC can't be in the same modpacks. It's that a lot of other mod developers beyond just TiC are unhappy with the level of conversion that Gregtech does to their mods and have been getting vocal about not wanting to handle dealing with tech support woes that comes with it. This is largely why Unhinged was much smaller and had a lot less mods than Unleashed.
If you want to call that "politicking" then sure, it probably is. But when Gregtech (and Gregtech alone) annoys other mod developers to that extent, you can't blame the FTB modpack creators for trying to avoid that tension. They are volunteers after all, and build the packs to suit their personal tastes as much as anything else.
Really, if you want to have a modpack with Gregtech in it, you'd probably be best off building it yourself and asking permission from FTB to include it in the launcher as a public pack.
I see it much simpler: gregtech is the only mod that offers big goals. Ultimate offered people a way to obtain those without the huge grind that you get with just ic2 and gregtech. Turtles, EE3, soul shards... its much easier to run an implosion compressor when you can anvil together some souls shards and whip up a creeper spawner in 10 minutes, vs trying to do it Greg's way. Without gregtech, no mods have big end game goals. Its why reddit's TPPI pack has gregtech, and its why they set up gregtech on easy mode. Obviously they are just one other forum, but Im just saying this is not my own opinion. I think ultimate was too easy, so im not defending my own preferences here.
As for chickenchunks... the creeperhost support people disagree with you I guess. So far after ditching all the chickenchunks mods, i have very stable worlds. Other people have advised me of the same thing. Quite a few people actually.
If people were bored with IC2, then why is this thread longer than any other discussion about any mod? Why does gregtech get a special post from Slowpoke, but now that his reasons are all resolved, still no gregtech pack? most of the discussion is about how people just disliked the changes. Thermal Expansion is, for most people here I would think, as 'old' as IC2, they both existed when i started a year ago. But no one is canning Thermal Expansion. Its not like the new content is that much more 'new' than IC2 ore washing is.
Magicfarm is really mostly older standard mods that people here have played over and over. Thaumcraft, mfr, TE. Why are they not old and stale, but IC2 is?
The reality is that IC3 with the addons and gregtech offers more content than 20 other mods combined. This is why people liked ultimate. It offered all that content, but the other modds like computer craft and EE3, etc. made the task of going through it all not so... tedious. 0_o So today we get 5 mods that all have new and improved pipes (ender IO, extra utils, etc.) and this is better content than what IC2 offered?
IC2 and gregtech offer true game progression. You start with a manual process that is lossy and inefficient, and you progress to a semi automated option that is more efficient, then again up a tier to even more efficiency. Forestry offers this somewhat with bees and even tree breeding. Multifarms and tree breeding, etc. No other mods really give you this.
That reminds me... forestry. Youre telling me that IC2 is old and needed to be retired, but forestry gets put in all of them? if anything has been done 1000 times with no new content that ive seen, its forestry. And I love that mod! Just saying the idea that some mods are just old and need to move over doesn't make sense to me.
If you start reading old forum posts about flowerchild and eloraam and spacetoad, it seems that there is a lot of politics and egos going on in the background. ot me it jsut seems that there is something like this going on here. There is no good reason not to have a gregtech pack. When people like Shneeky is saying "Oh TiC and gregtech forbid it!' as a lame excuse, it makes my spidey sense tingle. Just make a pack without tinkers construct. Problem solved.[DOUBLEPOST=1391623107][/DOUBLEPOST]
Not me, but although I suggested minetweaker here for the people that are frustrated with ic2, im using it in reverse, like trying to use it to make Turtles cost more. Is it bad that i am not using computercraft in the way that Dan200 intended it?
if you think about it, any mod is basically allowing people to play minecraft in a way notch didn't intend it to be played. Is this bad? Minetweaker "lets me mod the mods".
Slowpoke does not decide what mods go in any pack other than Monster. Eyamaz and I do. Slow has veto power if he chooses to use it. But he never has. Eyamaz and I do not get involved in any "politics" real or imagined. Neither of us has time or patience for politics.
I never said IC2 was boring. In fact I said its still a great mod. Its just not the direction FTB chooses to go at this time.
Forestry is in 4 out of 8 packs. Still not in "all " of them. Its in 1 more pack than IC2. BC is in 3 out of 8 and RC is in 3 out of 8. Thaumcraft is the only mod of its type. Even with all the other magic mods coming out TC is still very much unique. TE has a large number of compatible mods. While the number of mods compatible with IC2 has dropped the number compatible with TE3 has gone up. That makes TE3 a good foundation mod as we can put a lot of mods in that work together with TE3.
You have stated why YOU liked Ultimate. And while many people do share your opinion it is not everyone's opinion as to what they liked.
Magic Farm uses a different principle to make the mods feel different.
I did not say IC2 is too old at any point. I said that the number of addons for IC2 has been eclipsed by the number of addons available for other mods.
IC2 is still in almost half of the packs. Your gripe seems to be that GregTech is not. And considering this thread is about IC2 and not Greg Tech I am not really sure why you keep bringing it up.
Please stop reading between the lines and coming up with conspiracy theories. There is no conspiracy/politics involved. None of the current FTB packs are based around IC2 as the foundation tech mod, and GT does not fit a pack not geared around IC2.
I have no idea where you keep getting this "old and needs to move over" thing.
I agree, really. Im attempting gregtech 1.6 with only hand mining.
But i also think if other people enjoy the old ic2, why not let them change it?
No one cared that EE3 completely ruined balance with other mods, but 2 planks per log is a huge issue? I think it can be turned off. or is this not what you meant?
I did make my own pack, it just seems silly not to have a gregtech pack here. Its just the lack of logic that gets me. Why would it be locked? No one is being rude here? I guess the politicking thing isnt fair. i cant think of any other reason though.
As for unhinged, i read back when it came out that someone asked greg to design a pack? I thought TiC was the only pack that wouldnt allow it to be used with gregtech, are there others? ill have to re-read slowpokes pinned post, maybe i misunderstood.[DOUBLEPOST=1391624238][/DOUBLEPOST]
The person right above me talked about ultimate, i see it all the time, so i think its a common opinion. But i get your point, ill leave this thread now. Still, minetweaker solves all of the complaints in thsi thread, just wanted to pass that idea along.
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lets put it this way.
Horizons does not contain IC2, Buildcraft, or Forestry, and is currently the second most popular pack (behind ultimate, which has been around far longer, obviously.) it also doesn't contain Computercraft, or soulshards, etc.
No politics, no BS.
I have nothing against any of those mods, but there is more out there than just those mods, or TE or anything else.
Horizons does not contain IC2, Buildcraft, or Forestry, and is currently the second most popular pack (behind ultimate, which has been around far longer, obviously.) it also doesn't contain Computercraft, or soulshards, etc.
No politics, no BS.
I have nothing against any of those mods, but there is more out there than just those mods, or TE or anything else.
Ok ok sorry I mentioned politics.
I should have just left that out to just mention minetweaker. It seemed this thread was mostly people complaining athat ic2 had become too much like gregtech, they didnt like the hammers, Jaded talked about how hard it was to craft a basic machine. Obviously IC2 is still very popular, this thread is HUGE. I just wanted to pass along an idea for people who didnt like the changes. Should have left the politics comment out.
I should have just left that out to just mention minetweaker. It seemed this thread was mostly people complaining athat ic2 had become too much like gregtech, they didnt like the hammers, Jaded talked about how hard it was to craft a basic machine. Obviously IC2 is still very popular, this thread is HUGE. I just wanted to pass along an idea for people who didnt like the changes. Should have left the politics comment out.
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