Universal Electricity vs IC2 pros & cons

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PierceSG

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I love the part where you deem there's a need to call me and all other people a retard indirectly as well as calling us lazy.

Just for the record, using real life as an arguement, an electrical product without a manual is going to get lots of refund requests. Not to mention that if it explodes (not talking about huge ones, there are minor explosions of batteries in products as well. But those are defects and aren't "features"), they are going to get into serious shit.
 

Vauthil

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Let's back away from the personal attacks precipice here, folks.

I for one embrace being able to be unintelligent and lazy when playing my computer legos, some days (other days, I play Magic Farm and collect my own trophy heads when I die to decorate my walls). Other tastes may vary.
 

MagusUnion

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"If you don't like it, don't use it" Well, a lot of people aren't using it anymore. I'm glad you enjoy it, but don't call others lazy because they don't.

Never did I say that people who didn't use IC2 were "lazy". It's amazing how offended people get when that word is used :rolleyes:. I'm simply voicing my disagreement with those who have a problem with a mechanic that mimics what happens when you overcharge a machine that can't handle a certain level of voltage. That's why I suggested that they try it at home, and then attempt to argue how 'trivial' said mechanic is...
 

Loufmier

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I'm simply voicing my disagreement with those who have a problem with a mechanic that mimics what happens when you overcharge a machine that can't handle a certain level of voltage.
i don't think we'd have this discussion if IC2 mechanics indeed mimicked what happens in case of voltage spikes. you can read my previous post, which i assume you ignored, to see what can happen IRL because of voltage spike.

the machine explosions is an example of dev trying to mimic realism by introducing pseudo-realistic ideas that do not fit into the game nor are they realistic.
 
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noah_wolfe

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Regardless of your position, the "penalty" argument in either direction is as old as game theory. You can still find thousands of pages related to the early development of WoW and how the lack of a real death penalty (see EQ circa 1999) was either:

  1. Great! It saved the tedium and pain of hours-long corpse recoveries.
  2. Sucked! With no fear of making mistakes came a bland gameplay experience.

Both arguments have merit for several different reasons. As Vauthil points out, a single gamer is often of two minds, wanting hardcore one day and creative the next. I usually want to pay attention to building things properly, take precautions when setting up IC2 grids, and am ultimately more satisfied when everything works as planned. Other times, shit blows up, I ragequit, and find something more relaxing to do. Like drink. Alone.
 

AlanEsh

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My only annoyance with the 'splody nature of IC2 machines is that the interface to flip block facings is kludgy enough to make it easy to accidentally rotate something into a detonating position.
Oh, and 220v power outlets won't accept 110v plugs... real life has it covered ;)
 

Loufmier

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Oh, and 220v power outlets won't accept 110v plugs... real life has it covered ;)
while it is true and it is indeed a decent safety mechanism, it`s not the only situation that can be IRL.
for instance a some laptop chargers can output a range of voltages and if it`s set to incorrect voltage it may cause a damage to your laptop.
 

RavynousHunter

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Thing is, I don't mind penalizing players for getting their setups wrong, but IC2 takes it too far. Your machines shouldn't go off like a block of dynamite. Even my mod will have a penalty for being a little too over-exuberant with your power: your power lines will get hot (dangerous to step on w/o shoes) and eventually melt cables until the system reaches a stable state. The machines themselves just have a maximum running speed once a certain "voltage" is reached. Any extra gets stored in the lines and can lead to heat buildup. Also, yes, you will be able to perturb heat buildup by immersing your cables in water or covering them in snow or ice. Hell, I think I might even introduce a mechanic where immersing some machines in ice would increase their maximum running potential. Basically, giving the player a bonus for doing things better.

That, in my opinion, is how it ought to be done. Not IC2 explody machines, or GregTech turning your base into a god damned Micheal Bay movie if you bugger your voltages by a single EU the wrong way.
 

Loufmier

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Also, yes, you will be able to perturb heat buildup by immersing your cables in water or covering them in snow or ice.
it sounds good from gameplay standpoint but i do have concerns about performans. if each cable has it`s own heat value and each of them checks if there is water or ice around it kinda screams lag to me.
 

MagusUnion

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Regardless of your position, the "penalty" argument in either direction is as old as game theory. You can still find thousands of pages related to the early development of WoW and how the lack of a real death penalty (see EQ circa 1999) was either:

  1. Great! It saved the tedium and pain of hours-long corpse recoveries.
  2. Sucked! With no fear of making mistakes came a bland gameplay experience.

Both arguments have merit for several different reasons. As Vauthil points out, a single gamer is often of two minds, wanting hardcore one day and creative the next. I usually want to pay attention to building things properly, take precautions when setting up IC2 grids, and am ultimately more satisfied when everything works as planned. Other times, shit blows up, I ragequit, and find something more relaxing to do. Like drink. Alone.

You're probably the only logical person in this argument so far. For that, I commend you...

Being a person that works with actual electricity for a living, I just find it silly how people who haven't worked in the electrical industry think they know a thing about 'realism' when it comes to power distribution. I prefer something with a harsh penalty, mostly because if you do balls up something on the job and burns up a device down the line, there is a real harsh price (be it economic or hazard) to pay for that....

But that may be just a personal bias.
 

RavynousHunter

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it sounds good from gameplay standpoint but i do have concerns about performans. if each cable has it`s own heat value and each of them checks if there is water or ice around it kinda screams lag to me.
Oh! Herp, I forgot a rather critical detail. All cables that are part of a single, contiguous segment are part of a network, and all actions are taken upon the network, save for the individual melting of cables. Which, if you ask me, kinda makes sense: the heat would be distributed thru the whole system, not just built up on a single piece of cable.
 

Lonewolf187

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Do any of the UE mods add a portable power source like the various batpacks from IC2 that can be used with powered tools?
 

PierceSG

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Mekanism does have those power tablets but I'm not sure if IC2 tools would draw from them or not.
 

ShneekeyTheLost

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Lost as always
You're probably the only logical person in this argument so far. For that, I commend you...

Being a person that works with actual electricity for a living, I just find it silly how people who haven't worked in the electrical industry think they know a thing about 'realism' when it comes to power distribution. I prefer something with a harsh penalty, mostly because if you do balls up something on the job and burns up a device down the line, there is a real harsh price (be it economic or hazard) to pay for that....

But that may be just a personal bias.
I find it silly that such realism is required for a fantasy game.

Furthermore, I find it ludicrous that machines explode, destroying everything within three meters of itself, the very instant it is subjected to higher voltage than it should take. You claim to work with actual electricity for a living. Tell me, are you familiar with the concept of a circuit breaker or fuse? How about a surge protector? Would you, as an engineer, ever plan or design a piece of heavy machinery, or at least a commercial wiring infrastructure, which does not incorporate them to avoid critical damage to components in the event of a power surge? Have you never heard of wiring code and building ordinances?

Power going to machines from anywhere, be it in residential or commercial use, is standardized. You know the machine is going to work when you plug it in because the plug is wired for the output the machine is designed to receive. You see, there's these things called 'industry standards', in case you aren't familiar with them. It is put in place to prevent just such problems as IC2 faces daily.

Even in such extremely ridiculous cases, it will not cause massive explosions. It might cause an electrical fire, but generally the worst that will ever happen is the machine will burn out and become useless. Explosions are pointless, unrealistic, and punitive.

Everybody 'works with actual electricity' for a living. Or do you think computers are somehow powered by magical faeries? Is it your claim that you actually work in the energy industry? If so, then you should damn well know these things, and realize just how silly it is to imagine an industrial infrastructure that does not contain these basic failsafes designed to prevent these sorts of problems.

Yes, if you do balls up something and burn up a device, there is a real harsh price. That machine. Which then needs to be replaced. Which can be upwards of seven figures, depending on the machine. It might also start an electrical fire, depending on what combustible materials are nearby. But it doesn't explode causing everything in several meters to also be destroyed. Losing a machine, I can see. Have it turn the machine into the machine block. That would be fair. Explosions are unnecessarily punitive and unrealistic.
 

Yusunoha

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I've had it happen so many times that IC2 machines exploded on me, and everytime it was because I forgot something...
now that IC2 uses hammers and such for the creation of blocks and items, I think it'd be a good time to change the mechanic of machines blowing up aswell...
I'd suggest adding a slot in the machine's interface for a fuse. if your machine gets too much power, this slot would open up and you could put in a fuse.

or perhaps change it so that the transformer upgrade becomes the fuse. have several tiers of the transformer upgrade, each tier for a higher EU usage. or do machines allow more power if there are more fuses of the same type? sorry, I'm not that technical with that :p
 

Ripley

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I can live with machine exploding in IC2 especially since I use mekanism and they don't explode when fed through mekanism universal cables(though I still prefered the old voltage system from IC2, made more sense).
But the fact that you not only have to use a wrench(which is fine I guess), but have to use an electrical wrench in lossless mode to remove a machine without it having a chance to revert to a machine block is just plain weird.

Oh and Mekanism Solar Panels look 100 times better than IC2/Compact Solars/Advanced Solars, they even make that buzzing noise when charging which I love :p.
 

MagusUnion

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I find it silly that such realism is required for a fantasy game.

Never said it was a requirement.

Furthermore, I find it ludicrous that machines explode, destroying everything within three meters of itself, the very instant it is subjected to higher voltage than it should take. You claim to work with actual electricity for a living. Tell me, are you familiar with the concept of a circuit breaker or fuse? How about a surge protector? Would you, as an engineer, ever plan or design a piece of heavy machinery, or at least a commercial wiring infrastructure, which does not incorporate them to avoid critical damage to components in the event of a power surge? Have you never heard of wiring code and building ordinances?

I know very damn well that these things do exist, and are placed in buildings for a reason. Sure, had those things been added into the mod, it would actually be more realistic and more practical. Do you know how many amps a circuit breaker can usually carry before it trips? Or how many receptacles that you can legally have on a residential circuit? Or recite the parts of the NEC that refer to the proper usages and wire gauges of conductors that must be run within an circuit in order to comply with American Fire Safety code?

Thought so...

Even in such extremely ridiculous cases, it will not cause massive explosions. It might cause an electrical fire, but generally the worst that will ever happen is the machine will burn out and become useless. Explosions are pointless, unrealistic, and punitive.

They are effective in making you realize the penalty of over-energizing a device and gives a resource loss in result. Seeing as how argumentative people get over said mechanic, I think that it works highly well to drive that point home...

Yes, if you do balls up something and burn up a device, there is a real harsh price. That machine. Which then needs to be replaced. Which can be upwards of seven figures, depending on the machine. It might also start an electrical fire, depending on what combustible materials are nearby. But it doesn't explode causing everything in several meters to also be destroyed. Losing a machine, I can see. Have it turn the machine into the machine block. That would be fair. Explosions are unnecessarily punitive and unrealistic.

Yet at the time that such penalty was introduced, that was the best the Minecraft engine could do. Quickly do forget that IC was build before Forge, before fancy mechanics to the physics engine (if you can even call it that) were flexible enough to adjust for different types of conditions on tile entities. Now granted, the mechanic could be changed to something friendlier now, but seeing as most of the IC2 community didn't gripe nearly as much about this feature as the modpack communities did, there was no dire need to readjust it.

Now if you find such things to be of inconvenience that you just simply can't be bothered with, then don't use IC2. Getting mad over how a mod messed up your arrangement of blocks and consumed a small portion of the infinite resources that your Minecraft world contains only shows how much of a big deal that you make over trivial aspects of gameplay. You have the option of not using said mod, or you can put your big boy pants back on and just fix your mistake and remake said machine...

Choice is yours...[DOUBLEPOST=1384901247][/DOUBLEPOST]
or perhaps change it so that the transformer upgrade becomes the fuse. have several tiers of the transformer upgrade, each tier for a higher EU usage. or do machines allow more power if there are more fuses of the same type? sorry, I'm not that technical with that :p

We have a forum that you can run this suggestion by. Feel free to do so, as some may see it as a good idea...
 

Vauthil

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This is the part where the rhetorical flourish gets toned down or I lock the thread, FYI.
 
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