Universal Electricity vs IC2 pros & cons
- Thread starter Lonewolf187
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This is an example of disregarding moderator warnings, and of what happens when said warnings are ignored. Don't do this.
You certainly implied it.
And this has what to do with the price of tea in China? I could be quoting regs at you all day long, since I do work in the Civil Engineering field, however it has absolutely nothing to do with IC2, and straying way off topic.
Which was needless complex and punitive.
Perhaps you are unaware, but I was involved in IC before it BECAME IC2. I'm well aware of the limitations back then. However, the fact that this obsolete mechanic has remained while other mechanics have been updated is... telling.
I don't. You'll notice it does not exist in my public mod pack.
Personal attacks aside, you seem to be misunderstanding my position. I'm not 'getting mad' over anything. I'm pointing out how absolutely ludicrous and silly it is. I'm not angry, I'm laughing. Or I would be, if it wasn't like laughing at someone who just took a header into an empty pool.
You seem to think I'm one of the people who got interested in IC2 when FTB came out. Permit me to correct this misconception. I first started playing with IndustrialCraft back when you used ModLoader, and if it was for a server, ModLoader MP (although some mods required MLMP even though you were only planning to play SSP because of dependencies so that those who wanted to play on servers could use the mod). Forge came along later and was another mod you had to drop into the .jar file to get other mods working together easier. Hell, you may be familiar with some of my later works in nuclear engineering, inventing an entire genre of nuclear reactors which were the successors to the horridly broken CASUC reactors.
I used IC2 for... well... I guess now I actually CAN say 'years'. I was never happy with the explosion mechanic, but at least with the old wiring system, you could effectively deal with it. The new wiring system is... a significant step back. AND nothing was done about the exploding machines. So basically... they're about as useful as a Betamax player.
IC2 is obsolescing itself. It simply cannot compete with the other options which are available to us. Particularly so now that Thermal Expansion is out.
Thermal Expansion + Modular Powersuits = in every way superior to IC2. Toss in MFR if you want to also do the agriculture. Attempting to compare IC2, as it currently stands, to that combination is like trying to compare Steve Erkel to Chuck Norris in a martial arts competition.
It's not about the challenge, it's not about the difficulty factor, it's simply a matter of not needing to bother with machines that can explode and take everything else out with it.
To each their own, of course. If you like IC2... you can go ahead and play it. No one is stopping you. And go ahead and throw in GregTech along with it. Seems like it would be something you enjoy, since you seem to like that sort of non-challenging challenge. And you have every right to enjoy that setup.
Don't expect many others to join you, though...
This is an example of disregarding moderator warnings, and of what happens when said warnings are ignored. Don't do this.
To you, but not for everyone...
I know of your existence, and I do remember your works. Or, at least, fragments of what you contributed once upon a time. Why you developed such high expectations out of someone's college hobby is beyond me, but I digress...
Again, your opinion...
And who said it had to? You? Slowpoke? Katermix?
These mods are HOBBIES. Community contributions created by users FOR FUN. Designed by people with enough knowledge to piece together lines of code, and to introduce an interesting new feature into regular old Minecraft fun. They are not designed by companies, nor created by franchises, or even paid individuals that can work on content full time. They are simply options that people can choose at their leisure, and trying to "meta-game" their existence detracts from the very efforts that were applied to the code that created said mods in the first place...
Well I certainly don't need your permission to do so...
Like I care if they did or didn't anyways...
Ummm... perhaps I should clarify something, because you seem to be missing a very important point here:
Everything stated in the entire thread so far are opinions. Mine, yours, everyone else contributing... well, except for the polite and friendly reminder from the Moderator. That is what we are discussing... opinions. That's the whole purpose of this thread, this forum, hell most of this website.
You are reacting very defensively, and have given the impression that you are attempting to defend IC2... but no one is attacking it. We're discussing mechanics, including those we'd like to see changed.
Ummm... this has what to do with the price of tea in china? No one ever said they were. I'm not really sure where you are going with this argument, as it has nothing to do with the mechanics in the mods.
You know what they say about those who assume, right?
Complaining does not equate to discussing. So far, the only thing that people have said is that they hate exploding machines, for no other reason than the simple fact that they explode. And it is the one mechanic that people patronize IC2 for, along with the wrench system.
To me, people are complaining that IC2 forces you to be careful, and want to get (for lack of a better term) butt-hurt about it. I can somewhat understand the frustration, but c'mon. Your block blew up. So what? Grow a pair and make another one. It's not like scarcity of resources is a concept in Minecraft anyways...
It has ALOT to due with how content is added, how regularly mods are updated, and whether or not mod authors continue with said work. Real life factors in community contributions in more ways than one, and if you can't make ends meet and are strapped on bills and expenses, then you aren't going to commit time to your hobby when you simply don't have it. Another factor (a factor that I warned about when Tekkit was first introduced and gaining steam in the Minecraft community) when it comes to mod developing is: Unnecessary hype and community pressure.
Alabaka abandon IC2 because he was tired of the game and the fame. He stopped caring about something that seemed like an nonpaying job. An monstrous obligation that he could never feed due to the increasing fan-base. To expect a single person to pump out content at the rate of normal video game developing studios is, to me, insane. No person in their right mind is going to do that for free. NO ONE. Eloraam basically was in the same boat, but her's was on a more personal level for why she wanted to stay out of the community again. I won't discuss the details here, as it's not my place. However, the point is that the "fame" of the mods grew too large and they simply didn't see the point of pouring their energy and time into the ever-consuming maw of the Minecraft community. So like any suitable person would, they quit.
Now discussing opinions and objections on a mod is all fine and dandy, but don't expect the entire world from these mod creators. Their time is not infinite. Their existence is not built around Minecraft (unlike Mojang, which I won't get into here). They don't get paid for these creations, and they don't get compensated for time lost (there is the small factor of donations and adfly, but those aren't nearly high enough to make a decent living off of anyway).
And it's not like they have to accept your suggestions anyway to change their mod, if/when they decide to update it or add new features to the game...
Now hold on, that is NOT the reason Elo "quit"
She had troubles IRL and was to busy playing DOTA 2 so we do not get redpower
This is off memory, but just my 2 cents
There's a difference between making an assumption and presenting an impression. I used the phrase 'you have given an impression' for a reason. The more you attempt to attack people for stating their opinions, the stronger that impression gets.
You are again setting up Strawmen to fight. Also making broad generalizations and attempting to speak for the entirety of the user-base of IC2.
This is, again, the defensiveness I was talking about earlier. Not liking machines exploding is a valid opinion. So is the opinion that it is a viable mechanic. Neither one is right or wrong in an absolute sense. However, the vast majority in the thread are of the former rather than the later opinion. It is also only one of several arguments presented as to why Mekanism is superior to IC2. It is not the sum and total of this thread, and it wasn't even a major part until you came in here and started insinuating that people were 'butt-hurt' and how they should 'put their big boy pants on' (direct quotes) and lrn2play (extrapolation).
You are portraying individuals who do not like the exploding mechanic as less skilled, less experienced, less knowledgeable, and less competent than those who do. This is an ad-hominem attack targeting the debaters, not the topic. It is also a highly inaccurate one. I would appreciate it if you stopped doing that, because the moderators are probably going to lock the thread if you continue with that tactic.
Here's the thing you seem to be missing about all this...
I'm not expecting or anticipating or demanding that they change anything. I'm simply pointing out that their userbase is going to decline because there are so many other viable alternatives that do not have exploding machines, and that it is the mechanic of exploding machines which is one of the primary causes of this decline.
Also, you seem to be unaware that your argument about 'free time' is a universal constant. None of the mod authors are doing this for pay. So this argument does not make IC2 any more of a headache to create, develop, maintain, and update than any other mod. And with the Experimental branch, they've included a wide variety of changes... but those changes are generally (again, in my personal opinion) breaking things that were fixed, and leaving the other broken things alone. Granted, it is still in a transitory phase of development, hence the tag 'experimental', so there is still some hope that sanity will intervene, but the development progression does not give me any great hope that it will. Neither does the github.
I'm not 'expecting the world' out of anyone. I would just really like it if they changed one obsolete mechanic. They seem to feel that the mechanic doesn't need changing. Fair enough, it's their mod, they get to do whatever they want. Since it isn't an Open Source mod, I can't exactly fork it, even if I had the time to do mod development, so I am simply walking away from it. So long, and thanks for all the fish.[DOUBLEPOST=1384919252][/DOUBLEPOST]
There were also a lot of exceedingly unpleasant comments directed at her, similar to the stream of vitriol aimed at Jaded that forced her into mostly-retirement. It wasn't publicized a whole lot, because it really isn't a topic that deserves having a spotlight put on it, but yea... it did happen.
Oh... I was not around for that fiasco when it happened, so thanks for clearing that up 
(That sounded awfully like sarcasm, but it is not. Sometimes I can be bad at conveying words)
(That sounded awfully like sarcasm, but it is not. Sometimes I can be bad at conveying words)
Everyone, please can we not continue this discussion here in this thread? There are other threads that discuss mod balance and realism, please take the discussion there or PM amongst your self's if you want the discussion to continue. We have already had the Mods give one warning, I don't want to see my thread get locked because of this.
WARNING the following is a opinion by someone named Anubis:
I have never "enjoyed" or liked the explosion mechanic once, it has only produced anger, annoyance, and rage quits. It is one of the prime reasons I have not made an IC2 machine since MC 1.4 .
The same goes for the "wrenching mechanic", WHY... WHY the frick are you going to punish me for placing the block in the wrong spot? That is not "fun" that is just "tedious" to have a wrench only work 70%-90% of the time... come on, maybe if the blindness de-buff was active while wrenching I could see that. It's not like I forget how to use a pair of tin snips or pliers after lunch break and need to be re-taught to hold the thing right.
But that's just my opinion, you don't have to like or agree with it, just respect it, along with everyone else's please.
I'd like to ask why can't both sides have and eat there cake?
Can we just get a config for the explosion mechanic? Win-win on both sides, of course puts you at the mercy of yourself (SSP) or your server admin (SMP).
Oh right... because that would be the easy/smart thing to do... DEFIANTLY can't do that then. /sarcasim
I have never "enjoyed" or liked the explosion mechanic once, it has only produced anger, annoyance, and rage quits. It is one of the prime reasons I have not made an IC2 machine since MC 1.4 .
The same goes for the "wrenching mechanic", WHY... WHY the frick are you going to punish me for placing the block in the wrong spot? That is not "fun" that is just "tedious" to have a wrench only work 70%-90% of the time... come on, maybe if the blindness de-buff was active while wrenching I could see that. It's not like I forget how to use a pair of tin snips or pliers after lunch break and need to be re-taught to hold the thing right.
But that's just my opinion, you don't have to like or agree with it, just respect it, along with everyone else's please.
I'd like to ask why can't both sides have and eat there cake?
Can we just get a config for the explosion mechanic? Win-win on both sides, of course puts you at the mercy of yourself (SSP) or your server admin (SMP).
Oh right... because that would be the easy/smart thing to do... DEFIANTLY can't do that then. /sarcasim
There is no such thing. Seeing as how you think such a thing exist, only proves that this is an exercise of futility.
There is no decline. There is no NEED to keep users, or to get people to play IC2. These mods are not businesses. There is absolutely no need, or reason, for anyone who works on IC2 to worry about how many people play it. It doesn't generate income. It's not a business (unlike FTB, ironically). What difference does it make if only 100 people or 100,000 people use IC2? None. This foolish misconception that the mod "needs users" is an idiotic poly developed by those who do make businesses around modded Minecraft gameplay. I have no sympathy for those people anyway, because they developed their business plan around something that was unstable and unpredictable from the get-go...
Alablaka never really cared about how many people actually used IC1. Greg nor Thunderdark do not care about the amount the number of people using IC2-Ex. They simply gave the community an option to add something to their Minecraft. That's it. If only 10 people use IC2, then it's still a success. If 1,000 people use IC2, it's the same level of success that the prior example had. These mods are just options to alter Minecraft with: not franchises, not corporations, not entrepreneurship. Just creations of code that someone did, and had the generosity to share with others. I would like to think that people could respect the hard work said individuals put for for their time and efforts, regardless of if said creations are their cup of tea or not. But apparently, that's too much to ask for on the internet...
Regardless, you are under no obligation to use them if you don't like them. It is honestly of no concern or consolation if you do or don't...
So yeah, exploding machines is annoying, should be a config.
if ( Config.MadeOfExplodium == true )
{
IC2.VanillaMechanics.Engage();
}
else
{
IC2.VanillaMechanics.Disengage();
}
{
IC2.VanillaMechanics.Engage();
}
else
{
IC2.VanillaMechanics.Disengage();
}
lets just stop this non-sense talk about the greatness of IC2 I for one ditched it completely due to it... very buggy on my side and in fact I see it was already in the phase of "development hell" as it not having an actual beta release or even close to an alpha test, and right now I'm using TE (I find conduits more convenient than BC's built in power pipes) in fact I had always enjoyed using TE more than starting my game from IC tech tree then working to get TE, now if I can get UE to power things from lava... what does resonant induction add for that matter? I know tesla coils
- IC2 doesn't have models like Mekanism's.
- At the moment, both are poorly documented.
- IC2's addon community is rather small, whereas Mekanism is interoperable with UE, BC, TE and maybe others.
- IC2's experimental branch changes the energy grid so that you can no longer simply not mix voltages, you must carefully plan out your power grid beforehand. Things are no longer "plug and play".
- UE is usually more expensive than IC2 was (I think), but its recipes and dynamics are stable, and it doesn't explode if you set it up wrong.
- Instead of a power grid tied to its own rises and falls, Mekanism supports the popular UE, BC and TE grids, which all have vibrant ecosystems.
In short, Mekanism is easier to use and safer. If you like that, use UE. If you don't, IC2 experimental may be more what you like.
Note: I haven't actually played IC2 experimental first hand; I have based my opinion on posts on the IC2 forums, especially those here.
I, personally, haven't had much use for IC2 in the past month or so, specially since the server on which I play switched over to RR, and I'm no longer under Greg's moronic, arbitrary restrictions.
However, I do know of one caveat with Mekanism: do not, under any circumstances, connect MineFactory Reloaded machines directly to Mekanism universal cables. The game WILL crash, and you'll need MCEdit to get rid of either the bit of cable or the MFR machine. Go thru a middleman cable, I'd suggest, ironically enough, IC2 tin cables so you can throttle consumption a bit. If you don't mind consumption, or simply prefer MJ, then any form of MJ transport will work. EnderIO if you got power to spare, vanilla BC if you want tighter control.
However, I do know of one caveat with Mekanism: do not, under any circumstances, connect MineFactory Reloaded machines directly to Mekanism universal cables. The game WILL crash, and you'll need MCEdit to get rid of either the bit of cable or the MFR machine. Go thru a middleman cable, I'd suggest, ironically enough, IC2 tin cables so you can throttle consumption a bit. If you don't mind consumption, or simply prefer MJ, then any form of MJ transport will work. EnderIO if you got power to spare, vanilla BC if you want tighter control.
That just sounds like a version bug to me, as I have used them together previously.
After using IC2 on a SP world, I am more confident about my opinion about it. I really don't like the direction it's heading. It's definitely for a smaller niche of players.
TE/Mekanism is definitely for a wider variety of people, although they don't exactly fill the same roles.
Okay you want reason to hate terrible mechanics? Well here are some reasons:
The punishment in IC2 for misplacing or miswiring a machine is in excess of the 'crime'. Having to either gamble with machines or spend way too much energy for a simple misclick is bad enough. Destroying not only the machine that was badly wired (an acceptable cost) but also damaging the immediate area, which may include other machines, is ridiculous. With the new changes to the power grid, working out if a machine should be added becomes a more difficult task. The risk for miscalculating or accidentally wrenching something are now higher, yet the damage is still just as high. Carefully add four machines, then screw up the fifth. Well sucks to be you, go make five things again. Failure not only undoes progress on the current task, but undoes completed tasks as well. The risk/reward factor is simply tipped too far in the risk direction.
Also, being a hobby doesn't excuse bad game design. Plenty of hobbyist writing has been mocked for being absolutely awful, so saying people can't point out bad game design because hobbies is ridiculous. If you put a creative work out into the world, it will be criticized. That's just how it works. Heat, kitchen and all that.
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