Those little things that irk you about Minecraft

[Zelfana]

Are you sure? I'm fairly certain that the wildcared character (*) is extremely useful when making recipes involving tools... I may be wrong, of course.

It is metadata, undamaged tool is 0, one damage taken is 1, etc. You'd think it was that simple but metadata in recipes is absolute. All the Thermal Foundation dusts and ingots are under the same ID but different metadata for example. You can use different dust for some recipes because of ore dictionary and the recipes using the ore dictionary entry instead of absolute item ID. I guess you could do it for tools by oredicting absolutely all tools and changing all recipes to use those oredict entries. Else you would end up with the hundreds of pages in NEI with tools of different damage values.

I am not certain about anything.

But that might fix the issue of all the different damage values. But fairly sure that a pristine tool is a completely different item value than a damage one. At least many tools are that way.
Caused a lot of frustrations trying to automate stuff with ME due to that. Or in some situations been able to exploit it

I explained it a bit above there but most mods won't ignore metadata in anything. The only thing I've really seen is Thermal Dynamics filtering. There's mod sorting pipe in ExU but that's different again. If I just want vague filters that still don't include absolutely all items in a mod I have to use itemducts.

 

[Type1Ninja]

It is metadata, undamaged tool is 0, one damage taken is 1, etc. You'd think it was that simple but metadata in recipes is absolute. All the Thermal Foundation dusts and ingots are under the same ID but different metadata for example. You can use different dust for some recipes because of ore dictionary and the recipes using the ore dictionary entry instead of absolute item ID. I guess you could do it for tools by oredicting absolutely all tools and changing all recipes to use those oredict entries. Else you would end up with the hundreds of pages in NEI with tools of different damage values.


I explained it a bit above there but most mods won't ignore metadata in anything. The only thing I've really seen is Thermal Dynamics filtering. There's mod sorting pipe in ExU but that's different again. If I just want vague filters that still don't include absolutely all items in a mod I have to use itemducts.

Huh. I think I've used the wildcard character in Minetweaker to represent tools of all damage types before... Let me find it:
Here's the section of the script -

Spoiler

I was changing the repair recipe for the torch gun from flint and steel to just flint.
recipes.addShapeless(<Torched:TorchGun:1>, [<Torched:TorchGun:*>, <ore:itemFlint>]);
The important bit is here: <Torched:TorchGun:*>
Notice the asterisk representing ALL metadatas. Is something similar available while programming?

 

[Zelfana]

Huh. I think I've used the wildcard character in Minetweaker to represent tools of all damage types before... Let me find it:
Here's the section of the script -

Spoiler

I was changing the repair recipe for the torch gun from flint and steel to just flint.
recipes.addShapeless(<Torched:TorchGun:1>, [<Torched:TorchGun:*>, <ore:itemFlint>]);
The important bit is here: <Torched:TorchGun:*>
Notice the asterisk representing ALL metadatas. Is something similar available while programming?

Well I don't really know how the recipes are done. But I've only really seen damaged items in repair recipes and NEI shows those with the full durability tool making a full durability tool.

 

[rhn]

Well, no matter what it might from a pure logic aspect make sense to force recipes to require full durability tools. Else you open up for "exploits" where you could use a tool to near breaking point first before using it in a crafting recipe. It hardly makes sense to craft a new machine with an old worn pickaxe that is on the verge of falling apart.

 

[keybounce]

You mean, like how a wooden tool that is falling apart is just as good as a new wooden tool in the furnace?

 

[rhn]

You mean, like how a wooden tool that is falling apart is just as good as a new wooden tool in the furnace?

Nah that would be quite different. Just because a wooden tool have lost its edge for example, its constituent parts would still hold pretty much the same fuel value. Even if a wooden tool breaks in RL you can still pick up the parts and burn them. (you will enter a grey area of the wood getting excessive wear however from mining stone etc. as that is clearly not really possible Certain wooden tools should not even exist IMO...)

 

[GreenZombie]

Certain wooden tools should not even exist IMO...)

So many times this.

Although, most diamond, gold or stone tools make no sense either.
I've long contemplated how to re-balance the start-game to focus on flint and wooden tools, work up to iron tools, and then make the gold/diamond tiers more of an improvement of iron tools.

 

[Strikingwolf]

So many times this.

Although, most diamond, gold or stone tools make no sense either.
I've long contemplated how to re-balance the start-game to focus on flint and wooden tools, work up to iron tools, and then make the gold/diamond tiers more of an improvement of iron tools.

*coughs* terrafirmacraft *coughs*

 

[rhn]

So many times this.

Although, most diamond, gold or stone tools make no sense either.
I've long contemplated how to re-balance the start-game to focus on flint and wooden tools, work up to iron tools, and then make the gold/diamond tiers more of an improvement of iron tools.

Yeah, I think this is sort of what GT does now if you play it in its default Hardmode. Removes all the wood and stone tools and forces you to use flint tools, and then into the bronze and Iron.

It would make most sense IMO that you could only make wooden stuff like a Hoe, Shovel(slowly dig dirt and gravel), Axe(cannot chop wood, but can chop leaves and plants faster than by hand. Also deals low damage). (You could also make a Bone tool tier at this level I suppose). This is actually possible in RL.
Then you can find Flint to make Flint tools to break rock and soft metals(tin and copper probably). You can have a stone tier(cobble) of the Wooden tools, but there should not be a pickaxe as that doesn't make sense. With the tin and copper you can then make Bronze tools. This allows you to mine harder ores like iron etc. and then progress further.
You could even add Bog Iron ore(think Iron Ore gravel) as rare spawns to certain Biomes(swamp?) to allow you to get tiny bits of Iron early on before you got the tools to mine it. But it should be extremely scarce ofc.

I am not sure I got this completely right corresponding to RL, but this would make a lot more sense compared to how humans invented/discovered tools throughout history.
(and yes it is just a game, but I just love it when people can actually learn something while having fun. So why does it absolutely have to be incorrect?)

 

[Someone Else 37]

Yeah, I think this is sort of what GT does now if you play it in its default Hardmode. Removes all the wood and stone tools and forces you to use flint tools, and then into the bronze and Iron.

It would make most sense IMO that you could only make wooden stuff like a Hoe, Shovel(slowly dig dirt and gravel), Axe(cannot chop wood, but can chop leaves and plants faster than by hand. Also deals low damage). (You could also make a Bone tool tier at this level I suppose). This is actually possible in RL.
Then you can find Flint to make Flint tools to break rock and soft metals(tin and copper probably). You can have a stone tier(cobble) of the Wooden tools, but there should not be a pickaxe as that doesn't make sense. With the tin and copper you can then make Bronze tools. This allows you to mine harder ores like iron etc. and then progress further.
You could even add Bog Iron ore(think Iron Ore gravel) as rare spawns to certain Biomes(swamp?) to allow you to get tiny bits of Iron early on before you got the tools to mine it. But it should be extremely scarce ofc.

I am not sure I got this completely right corresponding to RL, but this would make a lot more sense compared to how humans invented/discovered tools throughout history.
(and yes it is just a game, but I just love it when people can actually learn something while having fun. So why does it absolutely have to be incorrect?)

Your description reminds me of the first few tiers of tools with Iguana Tinker Tweaks, actually.
Flint -> Copper -> Iron -> Bronze -> Alumite, I think, and more weird metals that don't exist (in that form, at least) IRL.

 

[ljfa]

Well I don't really know how the recipes are done. But I've only really seen damaged items in repair recipes and NEI shows those with the full durability tool making a full durability tool.

Normal recipes have the option to allow any damage value. There is also the option to make your own special recipe class that, for instance, only accepts tools with damage < 10%. Would make more sense than allowing almost broken tools, but I don't know any mod that does this. Not worth the effort I guess.

 

[Zelfana]

Although, most diamond, gold or stone tools make no sense either.
I've long contemplated how to re-balance the start-game to focus on flint and wooden tools, work up to iron tools, and then make the gold/diamond tiers more of an improvement of iron tools.

I just want to comment on the gold thing. Minecraft is actually doing it almost right with gold being a crap tool material in durability. It was also as bad as wood in speed before but that was changed to make them have a point existing even though I'm pretty sure no tools that saw actual use were made out of pure gold at any point in history so having gold tools in the game doesn't make sense from a realism standpoint.

But yes, flint would be the real starter tool. Iguana Tinkers' Tweaks makes it pretty much required to use flint. But then you have the problem that digging gravel wouldn't get you proper sized flint rocks to use for tools larger than a small knife.

 

[pizzawolf14]

But then you have the problem that digging gravel wouldn't get you proper sized flint rocks to use for tools larger than a small knife.

True, but I think that is the closest reasonable thing we can get into Minecraft. I live about three miles from a lake with a rocky shore all around (great for fishing, BTW), and that's always how I've imagined Minecraft's gravel. Sure, most of the rocks are small, but there's always a few that are bigger than a cubic meter block would imply.

 

[rhn]

But then you have the problem that digging gravel wouldn't get you proper sized flint rocks to use for tools larger than a small knife.

Flint tools have historically not been made out of huge boulders of flint. Firstly because you don't find natural forming flint in one piece like that, and secondly because it would take too much effort to shape it and be too brittle. What you want to do is find those rare big pieces/slivers among the limestone or gravel washed out from limestone. Then shape it and set it into a wooden setting to form a full tool. For a pickaxe for example the flint wmight even only constitute the very edge with the rest being a heavy wooden mallet to give it mass behind the blow.

 

[ljfa]

Well, Minecraft physics. After all you can just take as 24 diamonds and bend them into clothing shapes and get something that doesn't shatter the instant it is hit by a sword, it actually protects you from a stab right in the heart.

 

[rhn]

Well, Minecraft physics. After all you can just take as 24 diamonds and bend them into clothing shapes and get something that doesn't shatter the instant it is hit by a sword, it actually protects you from a stab right in the heart.

Again, this is where I personally would have made it so that to make Iron armour, you first had to make Leather armour and apply Iron. And to make Gold (Gilded) Armour(well maybe its shinyness distracts mobs? ) you first had to make Iron armour and then apply gold. And to make Diamond "Studded" Armour you first had to make Gold armour and then apply the diamonds.

 

[Type1Ninja]

Again, this is where I personally would have made it so that to make Iron armour, you first had to make Leather armour and apply Iron. And to make Gold (Gilded) Armour(well maybe its shinyness distracts mobs? ) you first had to make Iron armour and then apply gold. And to make Diamond "Studded" Armour you first had to make Gold armour and then apply the diamonds.

Minetweaker away, my friend. Minetweaker away.

 

[keybounce]

Before you throw out all the wood tools, remember that wood swords are a real thing.

Training tool or not, they still hurt.

This is something that irks me about modded TiC. Removing the ability to make wood swords, and forcing you to either use a flint axe or mattock, or pour metals for a sword. (No, I don't know how much of that was Jaded's, and how much of that was Iguana.)

(And why does a flint mattock with both heads flint do as much damage as a flint sword anyways?)

 

[ljfa]

Before you throw out all the wood tools, remember that wood swords are a real thing.

Training tool or not, they still hurt.

Yes, Wooden Katanas are just better ^^

 

[Type1Ninja]

Yes, Wooden Katanas are just better ^^

ERmahgerd, yas.
And yeah... Mattocks are OP XD
At least they don't level up from smacking things.