Those little things that irk you about Minecraft

[keybounce]

Regarding whether "real-world" is a definition for tech mod / particle physics ...

There is a tardis mod. I have not played with it, but when I mentioned a big box that was smaller on the outside, I was thinking of Dr. Who.

I don't think "real world" is a good definition of a tech mod, because our real world is not the minecraft real world. Maybe Particle Physics was the wrong way to go.

Point is, I think we were talking about power conversions, mana conversions, what is the scale of power (Rotarycraft is exponential, real world is, none of the major RF mods are).

If real-world power is exponential, then are mods that don't have that level of power scale "tech"? You did say that it had to model real world to be "tech", right?

Does it make sense that to use tech block X1 from mod X you have to make power block X2 from the same mod? Should power block X2 be substitutable by power block Y2 from tech mod Y?

Reika very clearly says no, because his power blocks are based on supporting infrastructure, not cost to build. His tech blocks are potentially server-killing, and the whole idea of "Just use cheaper power from a different mod" wrecks the intended balance.

Now, there is a conversion between RF and shaft, but you'll get the shaft trying to use it. The conversion is bad. Does this make RoC a magic mod because there is no good conversion? Is there a significant difference between Botany and RoC (both have bad conversion rates to/from RF)?

Is balanced maintained if you can use ore multiplier Xm from tech mod X that was balanced with one set of assumptions with tech mod Y that has different assumptions? Is a cheap autonomous activator that can easily right-click for you a balance breaker if it doesn't need a golem core and other things? Insert Reika's observation about people using an ore multiplier that just barely avoided being "worst" because it was "easiest". Insert a balancing mechanism about an ore multiplier that takes work to set up, that is responsible for giving gating items, and needs silk touch to use properly because only some things in minecraft actually drop a processable form of the item. (I.e: Fortune, the enchantment, won't work on iron or gold. There is a mod that makes fortune work on iron and gold by having them drop non-block intermediate items. Things like diamond, coal, redstone, etc, currently drop the final usable item, not a "smelt or otherwise process this thing" for devices like the extractor. Etc. Yes, I know that the redstone ore block and iron ore block extractor drops were switched, you still need silk touch for the redstone ore block's drop.)

 

[RavynousHunter]

My current world does not seem to like me building in the Last Millennium. Its perfectly fine with me building almost anywhere else, but TLM seems to be off-limits. That is...tiring.

[ETA]

Seems that maybe making a house out of massive amounts of crystalline stone brick might be a bad idea. Let's see what a Chisel block does, instead...

 

[keybounce]

That there does not seem to be any built-in way to save data (per-dimension data) in a user-friendly format. WorldSavedData is all about NBT files in the data/ folder, and that isn't per-dimension normally.

 

[Booker The Geek]

Reika very clearly says no, because his power blocks are based on supporting infrastructure, not cost to build. His tech blocks are potentially server-killing, and the whole idea of "Just use cheaper power from a different mod" wrecks the intended balance.

Just curious, what testing have you done to prove this bit of drivel that came out of your mouth hole? Do you have any proof that is not multiple minecraft versions old?

Please don't go spreading this cow manure around without first actually being able to prove it, about any mod.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Just curious, what testing have you done to prove this bit of drivel that came out of your mouth hole? Do you have any proof that is not multiple minecraft versions old?

Please don't go spreading this cow manure around without first actually being able to prove it, about any mod.

I'm thinking MAYBE he meant that some machines can, if misused, be massive sources of griefing. The EMP, the laser, the gas turbine, heat ray, bedrock breaker, and so on CAN be used to grief fellow players to a degree not found in most other mods. That's not even getting into the hell one can raise with a badly-made fission reactor, or poorly-controlled fusion plasma beam.

[ETA]
What the hell is the point of having AromaBackup if the mod doesn't make any effing backups?! I've lost two maps to a random power outage and blue-screen, respectively, and both I played on for more than two hours at a time, yet, not a single damned backup to be found in the backups folder! I'm thinking the universe doesn't want me playing Minecraft, which is screwed up, because its one of the only ways in my thrice damned life I can actually relax and calm my ass down. Anyone know of a backup mod that actually bloody makes backups?

 

[keybounce]

Just curious, what testing have you done to prove this bit of drivel that came out of your mouth hole? Do you have any proof that is not multiple minecraft versions old?

Please don't go spreading this cow manure around without first actually being able to prove it, about any mod.

Boy, what does your .sig say?

Yes, I'm a Smart-Ass. No, I'm not sorry about it. Yes, I will most likely make fun of you

From Reika's Wall-of-shame:

"I sold some of your stuff and people griefed with it, you are going to fix it or pay me back!/When I gave someone something, they did something I didn't like, and since you made the thing you are responsible!/I'll see you in court over my lost server donations!"

In other words, people took his bedrock-level stuff, and destroyed the server with it.

My claim was:

his power blocks are based on supporting infrastructure, not cost to build. His tech blocks are potentially server-killing, and the whole idea of "Just use cheaper power from a different mod" wrecks the intended balance.

My claim is that this is a balance issue -- don't make it so easy to get to end-game that people can go crazy easily.

He has said, more than once, that his higher-end engines don't cost that much more to make. Heck, even the extractor isn't expensive to build, and it's certainly cheap for a 5x ore machine. The balance does not come from the cost to build, but from the cost to operate at a given speed -- getting a _fast_ extractor requires engines that require some supporting setup.

He has complained about people substituting bedrockium for bedrock because it is so much easier to get -- heck, even octuple compressed cobble is easier to get.

High-end machines requiring non-trivial power source that themselves have non-trivial requirements? Balance.
Short-circuiting that with "equivalent power" from RF? No balance, and server destruction.

That's my claim.

 

[Someone Else 37]

Just curious, what testing have you done to prove this bit of drivel that came out of your mouth hole? Do you have any proof that is not multiple minecraft versions old?

Please don't go spreading this cow manure around without first actually being able to prove it, about any mod.

Well, the Bedrock Axe, for one, is good at chopping down entire forests in a single swipe...

Chromaticraft's endgame also has some pretty seriously destructive items and abilities, but its progression system is even harder to circumvent than RoC's. It's firmly in the magic-mod-requiring-personal-investment category.

 

[keybounce]

Naah, the Bedrock axe does not take down a forest in one strike. In roofed forests, maybe. In the jungle? It might take out 2 or 3 jungle trees in one strike. It might take out all oak leaves covering the ground in an area in one strike. Heck, the .. what was it, "awaked ichorium axe"? does more. Even the bound pick-axe will do more direct damage in one strike.

(Bedrock axe won't instant-chop leaves, so it takes time to get to the trunk. But it does get the roots of the tree that it chops.)

I seriously tried to take out a jungle with a bedrock axe. It was not up to the task. It is great in the twilight forest's dark forest, and would probably be equally effective in the roofed forest. But normal forests? Jungles? Barely a dent.

EDIT: The dev server episode where I'm attacking a jungle is currently on the editing table. Soo much had to be clipped. But this is the episode where someone mentioned that I have to do a lot of editing on those recordings.

 

[RavynousHunter]

The bedrock axe does make quick work of dark oak forests, though. Delicious, woody work full of fuel and saplings and food...

 

[Booker The Geek]

I'm thinking MAYBE he meant that some machines can, if misused, be massive sources of griefing. The EMP, the laser, the gas turbine, heat ray, bedrock breaker, and so on CAN be used to grief fellow players to a degree not found in most other mods. That's not even getting into the hell one can raise with a badly-made fission reactor, or poorly-controlled fusion plasma beam.

Maybe, the statement "His tech blocks are potentially server-killing, and the whole idea of "Just use cheaper power from a different mod" wrecks the intended balance." implies cheaper as in server resource costs. So.. Cheaper as in TPS lag. But I might be wrong, it is rumored for it to have happened.

Boy, what does your .sig say?

That is exactly what it says, and that is what I am. Nor am I your "boy" as I actually have used Tandy computers when they were still one of the top computer companies



As for the rest, Reika specifically states specifically (emphases are mine)

This includes disabling/banning machines so that users must donate to have access to them or offering packages which include my items

These mods are both very sensitive to modification and modifications can easily cause severe damage

So... A server blatantly disregards all warnings and rules, does BOTH of those, and then complains? I'd be sitting their with some popcorn watching it burn to the ground. Most likely handing out lawn chairs.

Realize, for this conversation, you can replace Reika's mods with any other mod. How about a bound pickaxe or an awakened icor pickaxe? Tweaked to be made from a just crafting an iron pickaxe? How about I sell mining turtles on my server with quarry programs already installed? At what point do we blame the server owners for being stupid and stop blaming mod authors? Their are too many good servers out there to play on one that makes you pay to play with all the toys. (Seriously, If your server REQUIRES you to pay to access and item in game, Leave now. Find a better server. Period.)

He has said, more than once, that his higher-end engines don't cost that much more to make.

Resources? Correct. An understanding of how the mod and his power system works? That cost is much higher than almost any other mod, barring maybe GregTech. Which is one cost that most trolls are not willing, or able, to pay.

Chromaticraft endgame also has some pretty seriously destructive items and abilities, but its progression system is even harder to circumvent than RoC's. It's firmly in the magic-mod-requiring-personal-investment category.

Very very true. Have you gotten to it legit yet? I have not. I doubt any casual griefer will either.


You don't know me. But I've been admining one of the larger modded minecraft networks going on two years. (Yes, and more experience even not being an Admin before that on smaller networks.) I can tell you, along with anybody else who legit runs a minecraft server or network, most trolls and griefers (As long as your staff is any good) will commit their crimes resulting in being banned LONG before they get to a point in RotaryCraft, ReactorCraft and especially ChromatiCraft where they can do serious damage.

Buildcraft, Computercraft, Steve's Carts, Blood Magic, Thaumcraft, Mechanisms, ArsMagica, EE2, just to name a few. All of these and more can majorly grief a server within a day, sometimes within hours, of a player joining the server.

You have a market and an economy? Not any more. Jabba, AE2, Extra Utilities, ProjectRed, Draconic Evolution, all of these have massive dupe bugs. You won't catch most of them. (Yes, I have reported them ALL to the respective issue trackers)

tl;dr
Don't judge a mod until you actually get to the point in it where you legit acquired the items you are complaining about. With only that mod installed. Then come complain. Do not call the Dragon into this, I am much more gentle then he is.

 

[RealKC]

I'm thinking MAYBE he meant that some machines can, if misused, be massive sources of griefing. The EMP, the laser, the gas turbine, heat ray, bedrock breaker, and so on CAN be used to grief fellow players to a degree not found in most other mods. That's not even getting into the hell one can raise with a badly-made fission reactor, or poorly-controlled fusion plasma beam.

[ETA]
What the hell is the point of having AromaBackup if the mod doesn't make any effing backups?! I've lost two maps to a random power outage and blue-screen, respectively, and both I played on for more than two hours at a time, yet, not a single damned backup to be found in the backups folder! I'm thinking the universe doesn't want me playing Minecraft, which is screwed up, because its one of the only ways in my thrice damned life I can actually relax and calm my ass down. Anyone know of a backup mod that actually bloody makes backups?

FTB Utilities makes backups

 

[keybounce]

I was thinking cheaper in terms of game resources, not server resources.

When I said "Boy", I was not calling you a boy. I was abbreviating "Oh boy".

As for Tandy computers: What was your model 1's keyboard like? (See my name and avatar?)

 

[Booker The Geek]

I was thinking cheaper in terms of game resources, not server resources.

When I said "Boy", I was not calling you a boy. I was abbreviating "Oh boy".

As for Tandy computers: What was your model 1's keyboard like? (See my name and avatar?)

lol.. Ah I see said the blind man. (I did not actually) Please don't take my soap box rant personally, I just really don't like it when people attack mods with outdated and incorrect information. If that is not what you were doing, then I'll concede i might have overreacted. Might have.

And that is the problem with abbreviations. They can mean different things to different people.

And it was not nearly as nice as my new mechanical keyboard. I did see your avatar, hances the reference.

 

[RavynousHunter]

FTB Utilities makes backups

Might try setting the delay a bit lower, first. I was...a little pissed at the time and forgot that my sense of time is famously rubbish. I'll see how 30 minutes goes, then try that if it fails to cooperate.

 

[Someone Else 37]

The bedrock axe does make quick work of dark oak forests, though. Delicious, woody work full of fuel and saplings and food...

And Twilight Forest forests. Especially the dark forests.

Very very true. Have you gotten to it legit yet? I have not. I doubt any casual griefer will either.

Not yet; not even unlegitimately. But I have seen videos on Reika's YouTube channel where he does things like click a button and call down a hail of fiery, explosive meteors.

As far as I know, you, Keybounce, Ravy, and I are all reasonably familiar with Reika's mods, and I think we can all agree that while their endgame content can be extremely destructive if misused, few if any griefers would be willing to put in the time and effort needed to actually make it be an issue if the server admin isn't an idiot.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Oh hell yeah, the ultra endgame of ChC can be hilariously destructive, but the amount of work required to get there is well beyond what your average griefer is willing to put in. Typically, the griefer is a lazy creature, looking for the quickest, cheapest thrill instead of working towards the truly bombastic stuff. Even something as simple as a radiation generator to ruin people's bases requires significant effort.

 

[keybounce]

There is a Block.isAir(), and a World.isAirBlock(); but there is nothing in Chunk...

 

[keybounce]

Rabbits give leather???

** A small rabbit has about as much leather as a large cow or horse!?!? **

 

[SolManX]

Just rabbits.

 

[RealKC]

Rabbits give leather???

** A small rabbit has about as much leather as a large cow or horse!?!? **

4 have as much leathers as a large cow or horse