Honestly Primary School was so long ago that I can't even remember learning anything useful there.
Except that Sherlock Holmes is a awesome Detective.
Should ic2 be boycotted untill the power system is fixed ??
- Thread starter Corinanth
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Except that Sherlock Holmes is a awesome Detective.
I have actually no idea who that is, but if he's any of those FPS make our children kill nutcracks, I'm most certainly not condoning anything of that.
The problem in this specific case is that it's not obviously unrealistic. It's a tech mod using machinery existing in reality doing things they do in reality and put them together to a completely unrealistic combination.
That pretty much sums it up. Most of the free energy sources in modded Minecraft have an energy source that is, within the paradigms of Minecraft, belivable (infinite water, ever-burning netherrack, never-cooling lava). My gripe with this is that it's basically creating energy from thin air.
To make it perfectly fine for me you wouldn't even have to go as far as a "quantum generator". If Mekanism had something like a frekking machine that, similar to how the MFR laser creates ores, creates combustible gas from nothing, that would be perfectly fine, it's a believable energy source within the Minecraft paradigm.
It's all in how things are presented (at least for me).
Phew, okay, I was worried for a sec, there. Yeah, Herr Thompson is one of those dickheads.
As for the latter part; that's like complaining the swords in Skyrim aren't realistic because you can use them to kill elves, orcs, and dragons. The argument becomes completely pointless because you're arguing realism in a game that is blatantly unrealistic; unless you have the power to fall over 10 meters, with a backpack containing 64 cubic meters of gold and wearing a suit of iron armour, without at least excruciating pain, if not outright broken legs, and on top of that, can sprint immediately afterward.
Its a game, its not supposed to be realistic unless its some kind of simulator. If you want a simulator of some sort, then you shouldn't be playing Minecraft, you should be playing Dwarf Fortress. Fun first, then balance, then (if you care) realism.
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Did the original poster ever contribute anything beyond initial post? Its a bit tl;dr now to go check.
I felt sad cuz he or she got totally railroaded, but at the same time I'm torn since who the hell as a mod author wants to create (free) mod content for ppl who throw boycotting fits?
I felt sad cuz he or she got totally railroaded, but at the same time I'm torn since who the hell as a mod author wants to create (free) mod content for ppl who throw boycotting fits?
I see the conversation has moved on a decent amount but I wanted to clarify my position. There are no arguments I would make that are designed to stop people from playing any mod in whole or in part. But I am perfectly happy using any argument I think is appropriate to explain why I don't like or disapprove of a game mechanic. I like mekanism. Its not my favourite mod but it has some very good stuff and I think it deserves its popularity. I don't mind that people use the hydrogen generators+separators either to make a power positive energy loop (in fact, I approve in sense that if you want a set and forget energy system it is more interesting than solar arrays).
The thing is that a machine that purports to electrolyse water using electricity will not ever have its energy needs met by burning the hydrogen it makes. Its not about efficiency because at max efficiency you would have an energy neutral loop. Its only partially about realism because i'm fine with most of the fantasy elements in the game in both tech and magic mods. Its just an opinion about game mechanics, informed in part by my chemistry education and in part also because I think it is a bit boring. Ultimately, I don't like it because I don't like it and that makes me invulnerable to all of your arguments, yay me!
I happily use the photobioreactors from gascraft by the way. No problems there.
The thing is that a machine that purports to electrolyse water using electricity will not ever have its energy needs met by burning the hydrogen it makes. Its not about efficiency because at max efficiency you would have an energy neutral loop. Its only partially about realism because i'm fine with most of the fantasy elements in the game in both tech and magic mods. Its just an opinion about game mechanics, informed in part by my chemistry education and in part also because I think it is a bit boring. Ultimately, I don't like it because I don't like it and that makes me invulnerable to all of your arguments, yay me!
I happily use the photobioreactors from gascraft by the way. No problems there.
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I will agree that a blatant positive feedback loop just feels wrong. I am not going to argue that other mods have to even try to be close to realistic, but a machine powering itself and more off of its own output with no other fuel source is so obviously out of alignment with real life that it immediately vaporizes all sense of immersion and one's entire mental picture of the simulation. It would be akin to some (bad) science-fiction movie powering giant machinery off of the old-style perpetual motion machines; you do not need a background in physics or thermodynamics to immediately realize the problem.
Everything before 16 is a factor of 16. Everything past 16 has 16 as a factor.
programmer mode: 4096 * 4 = 4K * 4 = (2^10 * 2^2) * 2^2 = 2^10 * 2^4 = 16K
RotaryCraft is very power-of-two math friendly. Convert to power-of-two and then add/subtract exponents as needed.
The irony here is that anyone who was daunted by RotaryCraft before is certainly not less daunted now. Possibly a bit annoyed too.
LOL
I did say "programmer mode"
I write low-level software for hardware (think firmware / device driver kind of code) so powers of two math is second nature for me. Of course I cut my assembly language teeth on PDP-11 when men were men and programmers used octal!
Fair enough. I'll stick to my c/c# thanks
Oh yeah. Mostly 'C' almost never anything lower level than that unless I have to deal with a bare board that has no board support package and I need to cobble together a crt0.s file to initialize the hardware enough such that there's a stack at which point 'C' can run. Very rare in my environment.
Because IC2 has no realism
Regarding IC2 and Hydrogen Generators, BTW.
Here's a thing - realism is not for making things exactly the same as IRL, but it should create some reasonable explanation what's going on. It's like plot in a game or movie.
For example, Hydrogen generator is bullshit, because that "plot" is stupid - it doesn't work that way. I could use it if I need energy and there's no other way to make it, but I still would say that it's a bad design.
BTW, RotaryCraft Steam engines grid + pump work kinda the same way - one engine pumps water to itself AND other ones, but it's fine! Why? Because the "plot" is much better - engine is heated by lava or fire, and that's the source of energy - water is just a working body, not source of power. But on the other side I kinda dislike the "plot" about AC and DC engines since I kinda disagree that redstone signal is a some sort of electric current.
BTW, kinda same for Ethanol Crystals - are they really a thing?
Another note about hydrogen generator - It's a weird looking machine that runs on hydrogen and produces electricity. What is it? A fuel cell? A hydrogen turbine? Or maybe some other ICE engine? That's not a big of an issue, but still makes the "plot" worse.
Now, IC2. It was one of the first mods I played (Well, I played IC1 + some other mods before
) and while sometimes its electricity works a little realistic - you use transformers to change "voltage" for long-range power transfer or to power different kinds of machines or such stuff, it has some issues where electricity "plot" fails. I won't talk about gnomes carrying packets - I guess everyone already knows how it really works, but I want to point out other issues.1) Glass. Freaking. Fiber. Cables. They are not conductive at all, but they conduct electricity. That bugged me since the beginning
2) Basic generator. At first it seems fine, but really... One does not make a generator from a furnace. Technically you can, but it's much more complex system that usually involves steam.
3) Solar panels. I won't talk about spammability and boringness, but... Why are the panels so cubic and so metal-heavy?
4) Geothermal generators are not really geothermal.
5) Nuclear reactor is a fun minigame, but if you think about it - it has nothing to do with nuclear reactors... In real life they do not produce anything other than heat, but in IC2 you don't want heat. Better than IC1 uranium furnace, though.
I think there are some other things.
I've never understood the realism argument when it comes to games. Yes, we all know that in the real world you can't get a power positive loop by electrolyzing water. We also know you can't cut a chunk out of the middle of a tree without the top crashing to the ground... you can't smelt a chunk of ore into an iron ingot with the same amount of heat/time it takes to cook a piece of chicken (or do the second right after the first in the same oven - very unsanitary)... speaking of the furnace, you can't cram 8 cubic meters of stone together and end up with a 1 cubic meter oven... the list goes on, and on, and on...
btw, this was not aimed specifically at you Reika - yours was simply the best quote to make my point against. You are most certainly not wrong, I just feel like this is a silly windmill for people to tilt against.
It is not so much about realism as it is about believability. Again using film examples, I am sure you can think of dozens of movies where large portions felt just too implausible to be taken seriously, and where the movie as a whole suffered as a result. Games are the same way.