Depending on how serious you are about it, you could always post feature requests to the mod authors to respect finite water settings. Bug reports and feature requests are an important part of making a mod better and more mature IMO
Should ic2 be boycotted untill the power system is fixed ??
- Thread starter Corinanth
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Depending on how serious you are about it, you could always post feature requests to the mod authors to respect finite water settings. Bug reports and feature requests are an important part of making a mod better and more mature IMO
I'm on the jump so I need to be quick.
Basically what really irks me is neither the basic concept of creating energy from nothing nor the ingame balance (I don't know enough about mekanism to judge that). What irks me is basically shown here in the thread, people are confused. The reason for that is that both of the machines in what they do are on the more realistic side of all things minecraft. Both exists in reality and do the same thing. So basically they hide something vastly impossible in reality behind "fake" realism which could lead to people not educated in depth about these things to believe that this is actually possible in reality.
If it was all energy problems of the world would be instantly solved.
Basically what really irks me is neither the basic concept of creating energy from nothing nor the ingame balance (I don't know enough about mekanism to judge that). What irks me is basically shown here in the thread, people are confused. The reason for that is that both of the machines in what they do are on the more realistic side of all things minecraft. Both exists in reality and do the same thing. So basically they hide something vastly impossible in reality behind "fake" realism which could lead to people not educated in depth about these things to believe that this is actually possible in reality.
If it was all energy problems of the world would be instantly solved.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Its more to do with immersion- how believable is the game? does it actually make sense?
(oddly this has very little to do with actual realism- exploding green penis-shaped monsters are not realistic, but it somehow makes sense and it adds to the game)
Water->hydrogen+oxygen->combustion for generating extra energy is more than a little out of place, and breaks immersion. Its almost entirely down to how its labelled- if you renamed it "quantum generator" it completely changes player perception of the device and preserves immersion; though both machines are identical in everything except name.
It isnt about being realistic as such, its what the player sees and does it behave in a way that makes sense for what it does.
(oddly this has very little to do with actual realism- exploding green penis-shaped monsters are not realistic, but it somehow makes sense and it adds to the game)
Water->hydrogen+oxygen->combustion for generating extra energy is more than a little out of place, and breaks immersion. Its almost entirely down to how its labelled- if you renamed it "quantum generator" it completely changes player perception of the device and preserves immersion; though both machines are identical in everything except name.
It isnt about being realistic as such, its what the player sees and does it behave in a way that makes sense for what it does.
@belgabor @Celestialphoenix
The laws of physics apply themselves vastly differently in Minecraft; the laws of Thermodynamics as we know them do not seem to exist.
We have Exploding Green Wangs, zombies able to infect people and turn them into zombies, witches, potions, enchantments, magic pure and simple, animate skeletons with no muscles or tendons, let alone ligaments to connect them, a form of dust that is apparently magnetic if used with iron and able to emit pulses in a steady pattern if used with gold and on it's own is comparable to electricity systems, teleportation using weird rocks, obsidian is insanely strong and if arranged correctly and a flame is lit on it forms a portal to another dimension comparable to hell. I could go on for months.
Immersion Breaking? Haha, yeah, uh, sure. If you can't get immersed at all maybe. Unrealistic? See Exibit A on this matter: MAGIC IS REAL IN THIS GAME. Ergo your argument about realism has to take into account the presence of magic.
People can't tell the different between reality and Minecraft? They catch on REALLY fast when they try to place some dirt in the air yet it always falls back to the ground, and even so, stupid people are exactly that, stupid.
No offense intended, but the only person who mods for Minecraft who gives two shits about "Realism" is @Reika and even he works within the medium he has, occasionally adding things that don't work in reality but would work in Minecraft.
Seriously, there is a word for people who complain about "Unrealistic" things in games that are obviously fantasy games filled to the brim with things that don't work in reality. Well, actually, plenty of words are used to describe these sort of people. But the key thing here is that the same words are used to describe people who dislike some mods for the Elder Scrolls games because they don't feel they fit into the game, and those people are called "Lore Nazi".
If I seem like I'm coming off strong here, this isn't so much directed at you two but at people who argue about Realism and complain that things don't fit into the Lore of a series. And I'm always pissed at those types.
The laws of physics apply themselves vastly differently in Minecraft; the laws of Thermodynamics as we know them do not seem to exist.
We have Exploding Green Wangs, zombies able to infect people and turn them into zombies, witches, potions, enchantments, magic pure and simple, animate skeletons with no muscles or tendons, let alone ligaments to connect them, a form of dust that is apparently magnetic if used with iron and able to emit pulses in a steady pattern if used with gold and on it's own is comparable to electricity systems, teleportation using weird rocks, obsidian is insanely strong and if arranged correctly and a flame is lit on it forms a portal to another dimension comparable to hell. I could go on for months.
Immersion Breaking? Haha, yeah, uh, sure. If you can't get immersed at all maybe. Unrealistic? See Exibit A on this matter: MAGIC IS REAL IN THIS GAME. Ergo your argument about realism has to take into account the presence of magic.
People can't tell the different between reality and Minecraft? They catch on REALLY fast when they try to place some dirt in the air yet it always falls back to the ground, and even so, stupid people are exactly that, stupid.
No offense intended, but the only person who mods for Minecraft who gives two shits about "Realism" is @Reika and even he works within the medium he has, occasionally adding things that don't work in reality but would work in Minecraft.
Seriously, there is a word for people who complain about "Unrealistic" things in games that are obviously fantasy games filled to the brim with things that don't work in reality. Well, actually, plenty of words are used to describe these sort of people. But the key thing here is that the same words are used to describe people who dislike some mods for the Elder Scrolls games because they don't feel they fit into the game, and those people are called "Lore Nazi".
If I seem like I'm coming off strong here, this isn't so much directed at you two but at people who argue about Realism and complain that things don't fit into the Lore of a series. And I'm always pissed at those types.
Celestialphoenix
Too Much Free Time
Magic through and through, and it all [somewhat] flows and connects through the game- hence none of it breaks immersion as it all makes sense in game, though its 100% fantasy. Its a believable fantasy.
(see magma crucible Vs boiler when they were first added)
If you then add something that builds on mechanics present in the 'real world', you would kind of expect it to function in an [very simplified] realistic way, which is why when something building on a real life mechanic also breaks a fundamental concept with the same mechanic it feels a little weird.
(actually anything real or fantasy that breaks its own rules would feel very off in my opinion).
I guess theres also a cultural reaction to this; if IC2 or T.E. added such a mechanic everyone would be screaming 'exploit' (actually anything real or fantasy that breaks its own rules would feel very off in my opinion).
(see magma crucible Vs boiler when they were first added)
Thanks for posting that. Was wondering where the finite water option was for my Famine setup.
I'm still having infinite mod sources, but the easier ones will have their crafting recipes changed to be more expensive, so with limited ores, you can't spam AA's everywhere (for example).
There are actually a couple options; but Code Chicken Core is great as it's a minor treasure trove of useful features.
Sweet, I'll check it out. Already discovered you can change chunkloader behavior for chickenchunks, which is great. Made them only work while player is online. If you want offline chunkloading, then RC world anchors fueled by enderpearls. Amazing what you can dig up within the configs, all these little hidden extras.
Wait, what? Are you implying that non-realistic things people experience in a game are going to influence their perceptions of reality? If so...you're aware that's essentially the exact same stance as great assholes like Jack Thompson, right?
Wouldn't that just encourage people to AFK more, though? You'd be surprised the lengths some will go to in the pursuit of laziness. Also, yes, anti-AFK systems can be fooled very easily; I could probably have it figured out in a day, if I was so inclined.
Well, if people have the time to spare to be that lazy to avoid a game mechanic, that's up to them.
Aye, I know, I'm just saying that if I can do it, anyone with Google and a modicum of programming ability (for any language, not just Java) could make a workaround for most anti-AFK things I've encountered.
You don't even need a program most of the time, you can usually just set up a system where water moves you around
Please, the only mod using mechanics present in the 'Real World', as a reminder, is RotaryCraft(and it's addons). Mek, IC2, TE3, RailCraft, most UE mods... they're all based more on fantasy then 'Real Life'.
Worth mentioning that most of these entered the arena with the goal of attempting to represent something reasonably realistic, and abstractions end up chewing that realism away. Saying they're based on fantasy is a bit of a disservice don't you think?
Even RotaryCraft has machines that defy thermodynamics and physics in general*. In that sense you could argue that IC2, TE3, etc are more realistic than RotaryCraft, since all their generators require a legitimate (if cheesy**) source to produce power.
* DC Electric Engine presumably uses lunar tidal forces and clever flywheeling to produce a steady trickle of power.
* Steam Engines run off perpetually burning fire which consumes as its chemical reaction....dark matter?
* AC Electric Engines...ok they require you to magnetize a core. That's legit.
* Hydroelectric engines: No comment, unless you legitimately find a river worth capturing power from.
* I heart Reika and his mods; just don't go slaying all the other mod authors in his name.
** I'm looking at you, almost every source of power other than coal.
Even RotaryCraft has machines that defy thermodynamics and physics in general*. In that sense you could argue that IC2, TE3, etc are more realistic than RotaryCraft, since all their generators require a legitimate (if cheesy**) source to produce power.
* DC Electric Engine presumably uses lunar tidal forces and clever flywheeling to produce a steady trickle of power.
* Steam Engines run off perpetually burning fire which consumes as its chemical reaction....dark matter?
* AC Electric Engines...ok they require you to magnetize a core. That's legit.
* Hydroelectric engines: No comment, unless you legitimately find a river worth capturing power from.
* I heart Reika and his mods; just don't go slaying all the other mod authors in his name.
** I'm looking at you, almost every source of power other than coal.
Again, even Reika bends to the medium he's working in. If it's Redstone related, such as DC/AC engines, it's based on Minecraft Mechanics. Steam Engines? Well, again, we have a object that when lit on fire simply refuses to go out without us smothering it. Hydroelectric? Real life as a whole. Like, seriously, this is the one that I'm confused why you're bringing it up.
Amusing, arguing over lego bricks not being realistic....
Fair question, but simple answer: You can cart a single bucket of water to the top of a tower* and generate power as if millions of buckets of water were driving the turbine. I'd disable this on my server except that the machine itself is so cool I can't make myself do it.
BTW if you haven't seen Reika's vid of his Hydro setup its a thing of beauty.
Regarding "Minecraft Mechanics", well, that's a magical argument any mod author can make, right? Once upon a time we were using the same argument to defend IC2.
Happy Friday!
*And then destroy the tower and just let the water pour out of another dimension.
PS: I refuse to admit I'm wrong about anything until someone goes and answers all my questions on my reactorcraft thread. Apparently I suck at disposing of nuclear waste?
I will defeat all your arguments of realism with three words.
Floating dirt blocks.
Floating dirt blocks.
Rotary craft isn't that hard to understand to be honest. It comes with a handbook and everything.
Also, this awesome dude has a four part spotlight/tutorial on it.