Should ic2 be boycotted untill the power system is fixed ??
- Thread starter Corinanth
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I assume because it's Energy Positive from water.
It's energy positive but not free energy wise. Run out of power and hydrogen? You have to jumpstart your whole base to start using some other energy source.
Yes. My education was pretty heavy on chemistry and that, even with the loss of realism that comes with a game, is just a bit much for me to take.
Then again, as a reminder, the amount of hydrogen and oxygen that is released and not obtainable is massive. If this process could be increased to a less insane level of loss, such as, for example, making it a closed circuit, the losses would very rapidly approach 0%(but likely never reach 0% and slow down to a crawl as it got closer), making it much more viable.
Hydrogen is actually a damn good fuel, and the amount of hydrogen particles released from electrolysis is 2 per H2O Molecule. The loss makes it all but useless, since most techniques have roughly 90% loss. Refining the method and reducing the loss would make it usable in this manner. Hydrogen Fuel Cell cars work great, as a reminder, and they are pretty damn fuel effective. The catch is getting enough hydrogen for a country full of cars(and getting Oil Bigwigs to allow this to happen).
The crux is that both machines (the separator and the generator) do the same electrochemical procedure, only in different directions. To consider that this could lead to a net gain of energy is ridiculous as that would be a first kind perpetuum mobile.
One is using hydrogen as fuel; the other is separating water into hydrogen and oxygen, which is actually vastly different. And even if the generator was just combining hydrogen and oxygen to produce water using fusion, the very process of using fusion releases spare neutrons which can allow one to gain power.
I honestly don't see people's issue with the hydrogen generator, it's not a passive generation system (which I also don't see the issue with), it is pretty balanced in terms of cost, and it is significantly more server efficient than a giant tree farm and set of machines to turn the wood into charcoal and the engines on top of all that.
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Yeaaaah, the realism argument doesn't really do much for me, truth be told. You could argue that the cost-to-power ratio isn't as fair as you'd like, and I'd say you'd have a point, but such things can be configured. Each hydrogen gen makes 400 J/t, and each separator needs 50 J/t to run; however, I highly doubt one separator would supply enough hydrogen to keep 8 generators adequately fed, thus introducing a balance point. How much of one, I currently don't know (going to be working on that as part of my research), but rest assured that it is something I plan on discerning for myself and revealing to the rest of you.
This is my understanding too. To split water to make hydrogen requires x joules amount of input. Burning 4 hydrogen in 1 02 molecule releases 2x joules and produces 2 H20 molecules
2H20 <-> 4H + 02
You can't get more energy out than you put in. The reason why Hydrogen is usable in cars is because it is portable, just like gasoline is. The energy is just being used in a different place to where it was "made" is all.[DOUBLEPOST=1395370354][/DOUBLEPOST]
Thats not fusion that is combustion
Using hydrogen as fuel is combustion, yes. I said they are vastly different.
Also seems I'm a bit incorrect on this, wasn't sure how much energy is needed to actual release the hydrogen. Not that you're showing the energy output from the hydrogen, but still, the Carnot efficiency could have us debating until the cows come home.
I'm not sure where you said combustion but I did see fusion and talk of spare neutrons so maybe I got a bit confused about which points you were making. Its been a couple of years since I have been doing chemistry so I don't remember the actual numbers involved but in ideal conditions the amount of energy you need to put in to split water into Hydrogen and Oxygen is exactly equal to the energy you get back when you burn hydrogen in oxygen, and in unideal conditions (aka, basically everywhere) all manner of inefficiencies creep in and energy goes off in all sorts of directions and you end up with less water than you started with and various other things.
GT has the same thing where water = power positive via industrial centrifuges, industrial electrolizers and a fusion reactor. It just does so while adding a junk ton of extra ticks to the server. Every mod that has lava as a potential power source has infinite power via nether. Every mod that has something that creates biofuel is energy positive. Basically what I'm getting as it every mod adds an energy positive system otherwise no one would ever bother using it. Mek's are energy positive but none of them produce amazing amounts of power.
In my experience an energy postive system doesnt always scale well. Big reactors could probably outdo that by virtue of its RF/t/cubic area. Also with Mek, you really dont need to add the generator or tool mods. I dont. I've got enough ways to generate power in my modpack. I have it for the advanced factories, digital miner, and the atomic disassembler. Each mod is balanced in its own ecosystem. If it doesnt seem balanced then you probably aren't configuring it properly to be in a modpack or are comparing it to other mods with different balancing schemes. In either case you are a bit bias.
The issue then, in my eyes, is that water in Minecraft is Infinite and anything generating more power from it then you need to make it usable is bad then, yes? Because if the whole issue is about how inefficient it is, increase the efficiency and the issue vanishes, and this can be done even in real life(though it's neither easy nor cheap, let alone absolute).
Only works if you disable all sources of infinite water, and that's not easy. I use CodeChickeCore to disable infinite water, yet I can still get infinite amounts of it using mods that allow for the creation of water.Could troll the server and make water not infinite. Problem solved