Opinions on Microsoft buying Mojang

[midi_sec]

I have yet to see such an idealistic project in my professional career. Usually it's layers of management all with stakeholders that can enforce decisions that affect the project. And as the project gets closer to completion more and more layers of management get involved and throw in their pet projects.

I can't speak for Microsoft but I would assume marketing, PR, legal, and finance all have some sort of say in the direction the project will go, and that's just divisions external to development. For example, say in 18 months they have a bad quarter, management will probably pressure all divisions to increase revenue, and for the most part they will comply.

Corporations behave more like totalitarian feudal states. Not democracies. And MS is one of the more aggressive ones when it comes to competing with the other feudal states.

An oldie but goodie that pretty accurately demonstrates how creative projects work in corporations.

I understand how they work, pretty sure I even said that democracy is nothing Mojang should ever worry about again.

My description was just less bleak than yours, sorry. Should I not have left any room for an "acceptable" ending? Should I have dashed all hope?

My bad

 

[Hambeau]

I have yet to see such an idealistic project in my professional career. Usually it's layers of management all with stakeholders that can enforce decisions that affect the project. And as the project gets closer to completion more and more layers of management get involved and throw in their pet projects.

I can't speak for Microsoft but I would assume marketing, PR, legal, and finance all have some sort of say in the direction the project will go, and that's just divisions external to development. For example, say in 18 months they have a bad quarter, management will probably pressure all divisions to increase revenue, and for the most part they will comply.

Corporations behave more like totalitarian feudal states. Not democracies. And MS is one of the more aggressive ones when it comes to competing with the other feudal states.

An oldie but goodie that pretty accurately demonstrates how creative projects work in corporations.

Don't look into Apple's history if you want to keep your last meal down then.

 

[TheQuixote]

I understand how they work, pretty sure I even said that democracy is nothing Mojang should ever worry about again.

My description was just less bleak than yours, sorry. Should I not have left any room for an "acceptable" ending? Should I have dashed all hope?

My bad

My point was more along the lines that you don't need a democratically managed team to get group think/scatter shot results. Pixar did very well early on using a democratic approach to plot and story development. ( The team could vote down their bosses ideas )

As for how bleak or great things end up being, that probably depends on your perspective and what you're looking for from the game.
The Youtubers, don't think they were ever in any real danger. It would cost Microsoft millions in PR/AD agency gorrilla campaigns to do the same thing. Don't think they'll pass up the opportunity to get that done for free unless legal gets uppity. If you play on XBox or Windows mobile, you're probably going to end up with a much better game that has larger and more frequent updates. That's where Microsoft's core competitive energy appears to be focused these days.

But the modded community is probably going to get hammered. The game being in Java is something I don't think Microsoft will tolerate for long. The curse relationship, 3rd party launchers and 3rd party APIs are probably going to go away. I doubt they will actively try to stomp Java development out with Minecraft 2/MS Live EULAs, but they will try to marginalize future Java development as much as they can.

 

[dothrom]

It's nice that as soon as this thread starts calming down and being more level-headed, we get someone else crying doom and how evil MS is, and how modding will probably end for Minecraft.

For everything at least through 1.8: They can't end all modding. Sure they can make some things more difficult, but there is a line where their legal power ends and ours (as paid customers) starts. They're not very likely to if they could at any rate due to the money, time, and PR that would cost them.
For 1.9: They probably are going to leave things be.
for 2: There will probably be changes, and it very much can go either way.

As to the details of those points? They are mentioned, repeatedly, in the past 64 pages of this thread.

Edit: But seriously, this talk of "no more modding" and "MS will do XYZ" is really dragging down the mood of this forum. ATM the community is more likely to rip itself apart arguing what we think MS will do, than what MS's own actions could do.

 

[PODonnell]

As to the details of those points? They are mentioned, repeatedly, in the past 64 pages of this thread.

Many of them at least 64 times......

 

[moltenbrain]

Java != modding

And it is in Microsoft's interest to encourage modding. They can always screw things up, of course, but they have a consistent history of supporting third party development.

 

[Strikingwolf]

Java != modding

Meh it helps. I like ripping open src code

 

[moltenbrain]

You can do the same for .NET. But the real issue is that people have become accustomed to hacking Minecraft (in the best way) due to the lack of an API, and now believe that is the only way to mod. That can work great until it doesn't and makes the game unstable. A good api with extensive hooks can work as well and provide more stability.

 

[Strikingwolf]

You can do the same for .NET. But the real issue is that people have become accustomed to hacking Minecraft (in the best way) due to the lack of an API, and now believe that is the only way to mod. That can work great until it doesn't and makes the game unstable. A good api with extensive hooks can work as well and provide more stability.

true, but I don't like API's I like ripping into src code. And I believe many modders are the same way

 

[Hambeau]

Meh it helps. I like ripping open src code

Riiiiight... And we need to de-obfuscate Java for WHAT reason again?

 

[Strikingwolf]

Riiiiight... And we need to de-obfuscate Java for WHAT reason again?

Because it's fun . Most modders do this as a hobby BTW

 

[Hambeau]

Because it's fun . Most modders do this as a hobby BTW

No fooling... I dis-assemble to machine code but it's how I learned back in the day and I'm just weird

 

[namiasdf]

Well once again. Remember that all of the new features have been pretty much taken from mods.

Commercial success does not always equal to shitty games, unless you're EA. Microsoft knows that a good game makes more money (Halo, etc.) and they should already know that the MC community is a lot more anal. You guys really put my engineering class to shame when it comes to arguing over technical details.

 

[TheQuixote]

It's nice that as soon as this thread starts calming down and being more level-headed, we get someone else crying doom and how evil MS is, and how modding will probably end for Minecraft.

For everything at least through 1.8: They can't end all modding. Sure they can make some things more difficult, but there is a line where their legal power ends and ours (as paid customers) starts. They're not very likely to if they could at any rate due to the money, time, and PR that would cost them.
For 1.9: They probably are going to leave things be.
for 2: There will probably be changes, and it very much can go either way.

As to the details of those points? They are mentioned, repeatedly, in the past 64 pages of this thread.

Edit: But seriously, this talk of "no more modding" and "MS will do XYZ" is really dragging down the mood of this forum. ATM the community is more likely to rip itself apart arguing what we think MS will do, than what MS's own actions could do.

If this is directed at me, I don't think I said no more modding. Just no more hacking an API into the existing game. MS may very well add an API and it would probably be well documented, supported and a lot kinder in terms of reverse compatibility and deprecating functionality over time. But existing mods would still need to be ported over.

The title of the thread is "Opinions on Microsoft buying Mojang" and it is entirely speculative in nature.

 

[GreenZombie]

I think a lot of people completely misapprehend how important the *lack* of an official modding API was to the success of the MC modding scene.

An approved API is a line in the sand: It exposes the things the developers *think* should be mod-able.

Converesly, because Minecraft lacked an API, mod developers went in and altered the renderer (optifine) world generators (ATG / Biome Mods), added new monsters, AIs, completely new types of villagers (Millinaire / MCA) in addition to the basic new blocks and items and texture packs one might expect from a 'designed' API. Mods have rewritten the enchanting system, hunger system, crop growth system. Have added thirst and heat bars.

And this is why Mojang have not yet managed to create a modding API: Not because they are lazy. But because the problem of offering an API that would enable the mods we already have is a close to impossible task.

The sudden imposition of an 'official' modding API would actually be the worst thing for Minecraft modding.

 

[NunoAgapito]

Well, if the concern now shifted to how bad it would be if Microsoft created a mod API(which is fun coz a couple weeks ago the discussion would be the lack of an API and now is the concern of one being created...), let me remind you that Microsoft is the gaming company with the best experience and capabilities to deliver the best API possible!

Keep in mind that they develop API's for more then 10 years, .NET is a success, they created XNA (although they stopped development) which delivered and still delivers some awesome games.
Every single day they create more and better API's that give developers better tools and more freedom to do what they want! They almost ripped apart their web server technology to create a new web server that is modular and much more easy to develop over(not perfect yet, but getting there) and gives almost total control to the developer!

This is not a company that creates an API where you have a method to create a mob allowing to set a texture and a biome to spawn. This is a company that will give you a mob interface and free reign to do whatever is possible to do, with the same control you would have if you had access to the full code!

Tell me a (gaming) company that might do a better job helping the mod community? Probably none. Not even Mojang. There is no other companies that have at their core business API developments and gaming at the same time! We are all used to the bad stuff we use to hear about Microsoft but that is usually due to the fact that the 10% of bad people there has more visibility then the other 90%. There is a lot of great minds there and they know how to do the stuff(and who knows, they might even play MC!). If Microsoft joins them together, greatness will happen!

Also, I repeat, Microsoft is not the monolithic company of the past! They changed and are much more modern. Before, employees were stuck inside their division, with no access to other projects, like the old companies. Now, if the Office developer has a cool idea for Windows he can work with them on is free time(like Google has, a couple hours every week to do whatever you want for the company). And awesome tools and features were created from this. You might not notice on your Windows OS but, us .NET developers keep seeing a lot of new crazy stuff being released. Will be funny to see how many of them will dedicate their time to MC

 

[TheQuixote]

I think a lot of people completely misapprehend how important the *lack* of an official modding API was to the success of the MC modding scene.

An approved API is a line in the sand: It exposes the things the developers *think* should be mod-able.

Converesly, because Minecraft lacked an API, mod developers went in and altered the renderer (optifine) world generators (ATG / Biome Mods), added new monsters, AIs, completely new types of villagers (Millinaire / MCA) in addition to the basic new blocks and items and texture packs one might expect from a 'designed' API. Mods have rewritten the enchanting system, hunger system, crop growth system. Have added thirst and heat bars.

And this is why Mojang have not yet managed to create a modding API: Not because they are lazy. But because the problem of offering an API that would enable the mods we already have is a close to impossible task.

The sudden imposition of an 'official' modding API would actually be the worst thing for Minecraft modding.

There are a lot of good points here. The existing state of mods are a testament to open nature of the environment and the hard work and creativity of the modders. We probably wouldn't be where we are if it started out with a structured API.

The glimmer of hope is MS will see the level of effort that is expected and wont try to re-write a game with an api that might allow all of this, because I agree that is a daunting task. But instead will write a game engine and ship it with a set of mods that provide the vanilla experience.

 

[BlacKHeaDSg1]

http://www.minecraftforum.net/news/59883-after-microsoft-what-about-minecraft-youtubers#comments

Can we stop panicking now? Please? I told you they wouldn't alienate that large part of the community.
I have a feeling they will release more statements about what they plan to do and about modding etc. I think everything will be alright
On a more unserious note I think we wouldn't ever have to worry about power again if we could have harnessed the collective sphincter clench of everyone when they saw that microsoft bought mojang.

You must be really naive person to believe in this statement. Sure they will not change for now until dust calms down. But later, in next few years, they can still flip the switch. Like they did with Xbone (first they were saying that you need internet to use Xbone, 1 week later they were saying that you don't need internet to use it).

It's unbelievable that people are still trust such big company as M$ and others. Man, look what Notch did ...

Just saying ...

 

[McJty]

You must be really naive person to believe in this statement. Sure they will not change for now until dust calms down. But later, in next few years, they can still flip the switch. Like they did with Xbone (first they were saying that you need internet to use Xbone, 1 week later they were saying that you don't need internet to use it).

It's unbelievable that people are still trust such big company as M$ and others. Man, look what Notch did ...

Just saying ...

On the other hand, what the MS man said made sense. MS has paid a lot of money for this. It doesn't make sense for them to close down things that contribute to the success of Minecraft. It is just business logic.

 

[NunoAgapito]

You must be really naive person to believe in this statement. Sure they will not change for now until dust calms down. But later, in next few years, they can still flip the switch. Like they did with Xbone (first they were saying that you need internet to use Xbone, 1 week later they were saying that you don't need internet to use it).

It's unbelievable that people are still trust such big company as M$ and others. Man, look what Notch did ...

Just saying ...

So... you criticize Microsoft for doing exactly what consumers want. They made a mistake, people complained and they fixed it and you use that to show how bad they are.
Haters gotta hate....