Opinion: Why I think some mod authors should think twice about their new content

[Democretes]

*Throws opinion into the ocean*

I like variety, especially in a sandbox game. Dartcraft, for example, is almost entirely original. That's why people like it. It's new, fun, and has solid content.

Thermal Expansion on the other hand, had me skeptical at first. Most of the content seemed like an MJ version of IC2. Once you start getting in depth in it, you find more content that's innovative and new such as conduits, liquid transposers, the magma crucible, the new molten buckets and such.

The whole point is, people like new toys. Having mods that have nearly the same function is like getting the same set of Legos for Christmas. Sure you can do more since you have twice as many Legos, but the fact is they're still the same and they're going to grow old fast.

 

[frederikam]

Why? It makes no sense.

My opinion is the sky is purple. I know I'm wrong and no one agrees with me, but I'm so narcissistic (I don't know if that's the right word) I want everyone to know that I think the sky should be purple anyways. Even though doing so serves absolutely no real purpose except stroke my apparently massive ego.

It does make sense to have your thread been seen after publishing it. And in this case some users actually agree with me.

 

[Hydra]

It does make sense to have your thread been seen after publishing it. And in this case some users actually agree with me.

The TL;DR types who only skimmed over your bullet-points and missed the whine about TE not being 'innovative', sure. As if that says anything

 

[frederikam]

The TL;DR types who only skimmed over your bullet-points and missed the whine about TE not being 'innovative', sure. As if that says anything

Really I stopped using that word weeks ago.

 

[Mero]

The whole point is, people like new toys. Having mods that have nearly the same function is like getting the same set of Legos for Christmas. Sure you can do more since you have twice as many Legos, but the fact is they're still the same and they're going to grow old fast.

Yeah, but my old set of legos doesn't match all my other sets of legos. While I can build with them all together, things work best when I build something with my old set off to the side of where I build with all my other sets, that actually look good together.
But now this new set, the set that is basically the same as my old set, actually matches all of my other sets of legos.
So while it is possible to build with my old set along side all my other sets, I would rather use the new set that actually matches everything else, in place of the old set.

IMO.

 

[Democretes]

So while it is possible to build with my old set along side all my other sets, I would rather use the new set that actually matches everything else, in place of the old set.

So in other words, the new set is more compatible with all your other sets. Things fit together well and play nicely. That is called adaptation, and things that adapt get rather creative (TE for example).

 

[Dex Luther]

It does make sense to have your thread been seen after publishing it. And in this case some users actually agree with me.

So what? There are plenty of people that would agree with me if I said the earth was flat or that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. Does that mean I'm right or that my opinion is worth even half the bits of bandwidth it cost to display it? Absolutely not.

Just because you whine about something and it stays on the front page because of the overwhelming number of people that told you you're wrong 50 different ways and the small number of other other whiners that agree with you ( or didn't completely read your post) it doesn't mean your opinion is any more valid.

 

[SandGrainOne]

There are many players and mod authors that agree with fredrikam because there are some truth to what he say. Mods with unique elements that are fun and interesting are better than mods that simply reinvent existing features in new ways. There are many mods out there that are created by players and not by game designers. Mods that change and simplify existing processes instead of adding to them.

I don't think fredrikam is going about it in the right way though. The problem is not the mods, but the mod pack. TE could be a unique mod in a pack without IC2 and RailCraft, and MFR could be a unique mod in a pack without Forestry. And vice versa of course. Dismissing individual mods because you don't like what it does is silly. You have the option to design your own game by picking the mods you like. Don't try to control the mod authors into creating something that they don't want to play themselves.

 

[Jadedcat]

There are many players and mod authors that agree with fredrikam because there are some truth to what he say. Mods with unique elements that are fun and interesting are better than mods that simply reinvent existing features in new ways. There are many mods out there that are created by players and not by game designers. Mods that change and simplify existing processes instead of adding to them.

I don't think fredrikam is going about it in the right way though. The problem is not the mods, but the mod pack. TE could be a unique mod in a pack without IC2 and RailCraft, and MFR could be a unique mod in a pack without Forestry. And vice versa of course. Dismissing individual mods because you don't like what it does is silly. You have the option to design your own game by picking the mods you like. Don't try to control the mod authors into creating something that they don't want to play themselves.

Hmmm such a shame there isn't a modpack that tries to eliminate multiple cross mod duplication and/or balance the similar mods in cost.

 

[SonOfABirch]

There are many players and mod authors that agree with fredrikam because there are some truth to what he say.

The thing is though, if games didn't iterate, then there would be no progress. If IC2 was able to say "we have ore doubling, everyone else cannot have it!" then there would be no progress.. youd be forced into that one path and only that path for processing ores... that's retarded.
Look at the games industry, do you think games like battlefield, CoD, etc are completely unique, as fred is implying they should be? Hell fucking no they aren't! If they didn't take/itterate/progress on other games, then the industry would have been dead LOOOOONG ago!
Take minecraft itself, you think this game didn't take ideas from other games and itterate on them? Dwarf Fortress, Dungeon Keeper, Infiniminer are all listed as inspiration on the wikipedia page for minecraft. If any serious game designer took this kid seriously, then we'd have big big problems.

 

[SandGrainOne]

Hmmm such a shame there isn't a modpack that tries to eliminate multiple cross mod duplication and/or balance the similar mods in cost.

It wasn't very clear in my post, but I've said before that the packs can be adapted to the player by the player. Instead of complaining about individual mods they should take a look at the pack and redesign it to their needs. Mods give players the power of game design. This is why we players actually need both redundancy and diversity. Complaining about it is stupid.

I don't use any of the FTB packs myself, but I see the need for what it does and what the team behind it has been doing. I also value the community it has spawned.

The thing is though, if games didn't iterate, then there would be no progress.

At no point in my post did I say that iterations are bad in any shape or form. I only stated that unique mods are better than the iterations. I also said what I considers wrong with what fredrikam is saying. The mods are fine. It's how you put them together that is important.

 

[Hydra]

It wasn't very clear in my post, but I've said before that the packs can be adapted to the player by the player. Instead of complaining about individual mods they should take a look at the pack and redesign it to their needs.

The whole idea of launchers like FTB is to give players who're not tech-savvy enough to muck about with mod configs the opportunity to play mods. There's nothing wrong with trying to give those users a good balanced starting point that doesn't require them to somehow magically find the right place to edit the right config settings. And especially for server play it's important to have good defaults, because most servers don't want to have to play support to users who can't find the directory to put the configs. Our server admin tried that and even with our 12 players or so it was already a pain.

FTB desperately need private config packs that anyone can make.

 

[PhilHibbs]

​

• The item should be balanced in comparison to existing similar items added by other know mods, for example balanced around setup complexity (I'm thinking how factorization handles the balance of the tripling functionality), price and required infrastructure that's required to use the item (IE how much work a quantum suit or redstone cube takes to make).​

I strongly disagree with this. Just because one modder gets in first with a concept, that doesn't mean that all subsequent modders have to stick to what the first modder decided was "balanced". If Eloraam had been the first modder to introduce an energy system, then would all subsequent modders be expected to make their energy systems zero-input (solar, geothermal, wind)? If GregT was the first modder to make industrial machines, would all subsequent machines have to be be balanced around GregTech material costs? If DartCraft had come out first, should that have become the basis for mod balance? All these modders have their own idea of what is an enjoyable balance point. They all disagree, and they all have their fans and critics who agree or disagree with them. Some of them provide configs so that pack maintainers, server operators, and single players can adjust them to a degree, and that's great. But each modder has their own vision of what their mod's balance point is, and that's the only way it can be. "First dibs" has no place in this equation.

Your point is correct in respect to modpacks, but not to individual mods. If a modder takes into account cross-mod balance by including configs that can be used to balance it against other mods in the pack, then that should satisfy your desire.

 

[Zarkov]

FTB desperately need private config packs that anyone can make.

What I would really like to see is server controlled client configurations for SMP. Instead of selecting mod packs, enabling / disabling the extra mods that might be in use, and making config changes - simply use the launcher to connect to a server. The only config needed should literally be the URL / IP.

The launcher would then display the required setup to play on the server, and if it was accepted, the correct mods would be downloaded to the client and all configs would be set exactly as per the server's specifications.

 

[PhilHibbs]

What I would really like to see is server controlled client configurations for SMP. Instead of selecting mod packs, enabling / disabling the extra mods that might be in use, and making config changes - simply use the launcher to connect to a server.

The problem with that is you only get to connect to a server after you've already launched Minecraft and loaded all the mods and congfig. The new launcher will have custom pack functionality that should be pretty close to this, if I understand it correctly.

From http://www.gamrmag.com/exclusive-new-ftb-launcher-and-website-preview/

• It will be easier to add Private Server packs, Just send a mod list and configs. The launcher will do the rest.
• The ability to copy a modpack instance will be available, for example- if you play on two Unleashed server that had different configs you can have an instance for both servers.

 

[Zarkov]

The problem with that is you only get to connect to a server after you've already launched Minecraft and loaded all the mods and congfig. The new launcher will have custom pack functionality that should be pretty close to this, if I understand it correctly.

Yes, a server side mod would be required to add an intermediary server - client handshake step, which the launcher then could use to connect and query for configs and mod list. That all seems unnecessary though given the information you mentioned, sounds very promising!