Opinion: Why I think some mod authors should think twice about their new content

[SonOfABirch]

Imagine one mod adding something that works really really neat and you really like what it's doing, and then there's this similar item added by another mod that works better in terms of how powerful it is, but you actually don't find it as satisfying as that less powerful item. Which one would you use, of the satisfying one or the powerful one? That's what to me feels unbalanced after my opinion, and as my opinion I wanted to get it out here. Some authors may agree with me. I'd say most mods are balanced, but one mod that I in particularly do not find balanced is Modular Power Suits, as it cast that shadow over the quantum suit.

The satisfying one, of course. That's why I play with TiCo tools and not Dartcraft tools.

 

[Hydra]

Imagine one mod adding something that works really really neat and you really like what it's doing, and then there's this similar item added by another mod that works better in terms of how powerful it is, but you actually don't find it as satisfying as that less powerful item. Which one would you use, of the satisfying one or the powerful one? That's what to me feels unbalanced after my opinion, and as my opinion I wanted to get it out here. Some authors may agree with me. I'd say most mods are balanced, but one mod that I in particularly do not find balanced is Modular Power Suits, as it cast that shadow over the quantum suit.

So now we've gone from "uninnovative" to "unbalanced" and according to you "unbalanced" is still defined as "I like the other mod more".

Why on EARTH are you making such a fuss about simple opinions? You can argue that some mods make stuff too simple, but you were talking about TE here, which you simply like less than IC2 for some reason. Who cares? If you prefer to use IC2, use IC2!

 

[PureEvil]

And again, people think that they are forced to use the mods they don't like... If you think that TE is overpowered or whatever, simply don't use it or disable from the pack. Minecraft is all about freedom and so is FTB, you can use FZ, TE, IC2 and a few other mods for your ore processing and noone forces you to go with the current.. As for me, I feel that IC2 is no worse than TE, many machines can be upgraded making them even better than TE.

 

[Hyperme]

Okay I guess I'll throw in my two pence.

Firstly, innovation. In my opinion, the innovation argument shouldn't exist. Or at least, complaints about lack of innovation should be behind graphical complains, and that isn't something I'd say about the majority of things. I'm much more interested in improvement. And boy, Thermal Expansion is the biggest improvement for MJ I've seen. Before TE, I barely used Buildcraft. Industrial Craft gave me energy storage, Redpower gave me item movement that didn't suck. Then Thermal Expansion arrived. At first, it wasn't much. A few machines I wasn't that interested in. Then came energy cells. Suddenly, MJ was actually feasible. Engines no longer wasted energy! I could use MJ for stuff! It look pretty nice! And of course, that little cube pulled me into the rest of Thermal Expansion. The customizable sides were great. No longer would I need screw around to find which side matched which slot. I could choose myself! And I didn't need to mess about with timers or placing covers or any of that nonsense. It just worked. Fanboying over a Minecraft mod aside, improvement will always beat innovation. Of course you can combine them, but there is only so much you can with blocks.

Second, balance. Another fool in the 'balance based on all the things' camp. Yeah I don't think so. Go dig through my post history for some thoughts on balance. Also I'm going to cover the rest later. Point three?

Point three: External influence. Other stuff exists. Very nice, I look at them and say 'they did a thing'. I am now being pointless, since everyone can see that they did a thing. So if I'm making a mod and say 'they did a thing so I will not do it' I need to look in the mirror, decide if I need to shave, look myself in the eye and say 'Dude, maybe try thinking? I hears it leads to confirming your own existence. And also game design'. Confused? Good. What hypothetical Hyperme should of said was 'they did a thing, and me doing it would neither add to my mod or modding in general'. Notice that hypothetical Hyperme considered his mod first, then other mods. This important! If you think your mod needs an X, add that X. Even if every mod has an X! If someone only uses your mod, and you didn't add that X but an X really is need, you fail. Moral: Only consider other mods after you've got your mod together. Otherwise you end up with the crazy race to the bottom nonsense excuse for modding we have now.

so yeah, words.

 

[RedBoss]

TL;DR OP wants balance. Here ya go

The rest of us can continue to enjoy ourselves.

 

[frederikam]

Shifting your argument does not validate that argument, it merely makes you appear to be attempting to dodge the bullet. Unsuccessfully, I might add.

Your ignorance of basic programming concepts does not change the fact that it is one massive security hole. Just because it is sandboxed does not mean it is safe. Also, do not underestimate the power of a well-timed crash. An unscrupulous individual can frag your hard drive pretty well that way.

Furthermore, you misunderstand just how badly you can perma-crash a server and render the entire server inoperable permanently. Or did you forget what the Startup file can do? You would need to perform a world reset (or at least reset the chunk or chunks the turtle(s) or computer(s) running the program is/are in) in order to fix the problem. In many ways, it is a more serious griefing tool than TNT, if only because there are so many ways to protect a world against griefing such as blowing everything up or burning everything, and there really isn't any way to protect against a memory leak. Hell, setting up a 'Grey Ooze' network wouldn't take more than about three or four turtles, and would easily bring a server to its knees given a few stacks of redstone and a couple chests of smoothstone to get things started. Worse, once you write the code, you can simply pastebin it. Meaning you can then retrieve the entire code with a single line of LUA script and crash any server you want (assuming presence of ComputerCraft and html access) within minutes of joining.

Let me run this by you again in plain english: ANY USER can use this to crash a server badly enough that it will require a world rollback at a minimum. With nothing more than a few minutes of mining and a single line of code.

You don't seem to comprehend that the very facts you are touting are my very arguments against the mod. It does everything all at once, and does so with pathetic ease and ridiculously low resources and zero need for any LUA coding other than loading pastebins. It is a 'brute force' approach to 'winning' minecraft. It is actually easier than simply typing in "/gamemode 1" and manually giving yourself all the wins, because once you start running it, you can simply walk away from the computer and let your turtles do all the work for you.

However, unlike you, I feel no need to try and dictate to the mod author what he should or should not do. If he wants to make a LUA shell for Minecraft, that's his ball of wax. I won't touch it with a barge pole, but that's my personal preference. If you like it, that's your opinion, and you are entitled to it (probably the ONLY thing you are entitled to, in point of fact).

If you still fail to see how this is relevant to the discussion at hand... well, I give up. Fortunately, it is not my job to attempt to educate you, because there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

I see where you are with this; you see these bugs but you don't "dictate" that the authors should fix it although it's some serious bugs. But the thing is that it's not possible to fix in this case. And another thing worth mentioning is that I'm not "dictating" any authors to change any code here. I'm just suggesting how I'd prefer a mod's balance to be laid out, and if the reading mod author doesn't agree with me I just have to accept that. If you'd like to discuss how dangerous Computercraft I'd suggest you do that at the CC forums, there's some people that's much more experienced with this matter.

Normally, when you make a suggestion that is rejected, do you continue to make the same suggestion over and over again?

No, but this "suggestion" is pointed at about any mod author, should one disagree it wouldn't mean that everyone would have to disagree. Who would deny this thread? And the fact that CoverJaguar "liked" my initial thread is a good sign.

So now we've gone from "uninnovative" to "unbalanced" and according to you "unbalanced" is still defined as "I like the other mod more".

That's clearly not my definition of mod balance. This is what I'd exspect from an item:

Spoiler

• The item should be balanced in comparison to existing similar items added by other know mods, for example balanced around setup complexity (I'm thinking how factorization handles the balance of the tripling functionality), price and required infrastructure that's required to use the item (IE how much work a quantum suit or redstone cube takes to make). Different tiers, or maybe the item could be restricted to dungeon chests and Etc.
• It should be stable.
• It should be efficient in terms of computer power.
• It should be different from what other similar items added by other mods, IE how TE handles processed items or generated liquids. Why have two different mods have a block each doing exactly the same?
  • A good exception to this is to have items improving that mod, for when it's played with no other mods or very few. IE have some kind of ore doubling method.

Okay I guess I'll throw in my two pence.

Firstly, innovation. In my opinion, the innovation argument shouldn't exist. Or at least, complaints about lack of innovation should be behind graphical complains, and that isn't something I'd say about the majority of things. I'm much more interested in improvement. And boy, Thermal Expansion is the biggest improvement for MJ I've seen. Before TE, I barely used Buildcraft. Industrial Craft gave me energy storage, Redpower gave me item movement that didn't suck. Then Thermal Expansion arrived. At first, it wasn't much. A few machines I wasn't that interested in. Then came energy cells. Suddenly, MJ was actually feasible. Engines no longer wasted energy! I could use MJ for stuff! It look pretty nice! And of course, that little cube pulled me into the rest of Thermal Expansion. The customizable sides were great. No longer would I need screw around to find which side matched which slot. I could choose myself! And I didn't need to mess about with timers or placing covers or any of that nonsense. It just worked. Fanboying over a Minecraft mod aside, improvement will always beat innovation. Of course you can combine them, but there is only so much you can with blocks.

When I was referring to TE, I was referring to a very early version of TE where TE didn't have conduits. I like most of what TE adds.

TL;DR OP wants balance. Here ya goView attachment 7230

The rest of us can continue to enjoy ourselves.

Your post is more of an insult rather than a valid input. It's not constructive.

 

[Eunomiac]

Of the four bullets in Frederikam's definition of balance, only the first actually addresses game balance: i.e., new items should be comparable to existing items added by other established mods, in terms of cost/complexity/required infrastructure/tech tier. I agree with this statement. I think most mod authors would, too---and we see that, in how most mods do adhere to an unspoken standard of balance across a whole host of areas. This fiction that balance has no place in Survival is just that: a fiction. Just watch DW20's ForgeCraft series, and you'll hear mod authors talking about balance and OP'ness all the time. Game balance is a thing in Modded Minecraft.

The argument that "if you think it's OP, don't use it" rings hollow, especially in SMP. It's simplistic to declare the balance issue moot because someone who thinks a Powersuit is overpowered can choose not to use it... while everyone else on the server is flying around like Superman. To say that is to deny the competitive nature of gaming.

The way I look at game balance is entirely in terms of "gameplay added vs. gameplay subtracted". A new item can subtract from gameplay if it replaces one path to a goal with a cheaper/better/faster shortcut, rendering a whole chunk of gameplay obsolete in the process. For me, the biggest offender here in the history of modded Minecraft was EE2's Transmutation Tablet. I still remember how awesome my first game in MC1.4 (without EE2) was: the sheer number of goals I now had, once I couldn't transform dirt into everything I needed, was fantastic---automating farms, and trees, and animals, and all sorts of awesome things.

More recently, it made me a little sad to watch a recent episode of DW20's 1.6 SMP on ForgeCraft, where a SteveCarts tree farm produced so many saplings it made crossbreeding high-Sappiness trees for ethanol look like a virtually pointless endeavor. Tree-breeding is elaborate and cool and intricate and fun gameplay. I'm not saying Steve's Carts isn't, I love that mod. I'm just pointing to this as an example of "balance" being more than an abstract concept, but one that can subtract from gameplay by, in this case, undercutting a whole system of Forestry mechanics with a simpler, cheaper, faster and more-effective alternative. I believe that balancing these two paths to ethanol would benefit the game. (Disclaimer: I could be entirely wrong about this specific example; it only looked this way from the video. Consider it an illustration of what I mean by "gameplay added vs. gameplay subtracted", not a specific critique of Steve's Carts or Forestry.)

 

[draeath]

To say that is to deny the competitive nature of gaming.

I know this isn't really your point, but I'm going to take a stab at that one there. Gaming is not competitive by nature.

 

[Mero]

The argument that "if you think it's OP, don't use it" rings hollow, especially in SMP. It's simplistic to declare the balance issue moot because someone who thinks a Powersuit is overpowered can choose not to use it... while everyone else on the server is flying around like Superman. To say that is to deny the competitive nature of gaming.

Your argument is based entirely on the incorrect assumption that everybody wants to be a sheep/lemming. (lemon for those who get the reference)

Using your argument above, you assume that every player wants to be able to fly.
I have no interest in flying in minecraft (or RL as a matter of fact), it just doesn't interest me in the game.
Back when I used IC I made the jetpack, because the guides said to do this and this and this, but I never felt the need or desire to use it. Sure when I was out wandering the wilderness for resources and came across a mountain I would use it to fly up to the top of it, but that was the extent of my use for flying. It was only a very minor time savor.
MPS is one of the mods that is removed before I even create a new world on any SP game.
If I were on a server with it on, I wouldn't use it. Just like I won't use IC stuff. I would never use UU matter, or a quantum suit, nano saber...., or the portal guns/gravity guns.
There are just things I don't like in MC and I won't use, even if everybody else is using them.

You could stick me on a server where every other player on the server has Admin privileges along with complete WorldEdit access and I am nothing but a basic player and it wouldn't bother me one bit.
Just because someone can fly or has more resources than me or can do things that I can't do doesn't mean that I am not enjoying myself or having fun.

Now, if you were playing on say a "Hunger Games" server, that would be different. In that type of environment, where the entire object of the game is to kill all the other players, having an advantage like that would make play unbalanced.
But outside of an artificially enforced competitive environment, other people having stuff that someone else doesn't is meaningless, unless you happen to be someone who thinks that the grass is always greener on the other side.

I personally make my own fun.

 

[Hydra]

Do we really have to start again after a week?

 

[Dex Luther]

Do we really have to start again after a week?

Unfortunately, these threads will never end. People are always whining that one thing or another is overpowered. It's beyond them that it's up to them to decide what to use or not to use. I've seen people even whine about how creative mode is unbalanced and should be removed.

 

[thewindmillman]

at the end of the day, no one should really care a toss about "balance". I think it's safe to say most people play Minecraft, with or without mods, simply to have fun. yes, "balance" on things may add to the fun factor for some people. But really, fun is fun, "balanced" or not. it's easy to just play the way you want to, even if there are more powerful alternatives.

 

[immibis]

The argument that "if you think it's OP, don't use it" rings hollow, especially in SMP. It's simplistic to declare the balance issue moot because someone who thinks a Powersuit is overpowered can choose not to use it... while everyone else on the server is flying around like Superman. To say that is to deny the competitive nature of gaming.

The way I look at game balance is entirely in terms of "gameplay added vs. gameplay subtracted". A new item can subtract from gameplay if it replaces one path to a goal with a cheaper/better/faster shortcut, rendering a whole chunk of gameplay obsolete in the process. For me, the biggest offender here in the history of modded Minecraft was EE2's Transmutation Tablet. I still remember how awesome my first game in MC1.4 (without EE2) was: the sheer number of goals I now had, once I couldn't transform dirt into everything I needed, was fantastic---automating farms, and trees, and animals, and all sorts of awesome things.

Agreed. But if anyone ever tries to explain this point, they get so many replies saying:

it's up to them to decide what to use or not to use

that they tend to just give up.

It might look like you have a choice between breeding high-sappiness trees or setting up a SC2 tree farm - but how many people have seriously evaluated both options and then decided to go for the tree breeding? None (or almost none). Although they had a choice between the two outcomes, only one of them could rationally be chosen.

Consider an analogy. In real life if you want meat you have a choice between buying it from a shop, or hunting animals and processing them yourself. Almost everyone chooses to buy it from a shop. Is this bad in real life? No, because you have more important things to do than find meat.

But if real life was a game, and significant developer effort had gone into the hunting part of the game, the game designer would definitely not want everyone to get their meat from a shop. If hunting is as fun as the rest of the game, then adding a meat shop would not make the game more fun, but would make it shorter - hence there would be less overall enjoyment for players. When players encounter the point in the game where they need to get meat, the rational decision is for every player is to buy the meat from the shop.

Even if a player realises this and wants his/her game to last longer, he/she is not likely to choose to go hunting. Because the shop exists, going hunting would feel like a waste of time, instead of something that is necessary to progress through the game. Nobody likes wasting time, even in a video game. Especially in multiplayer, where even in a non-competitive game, it would be disheartening to spend two hours hunting for meat and then meet up with your friends who bought the meat from the shop and have two hours more progress than you.

Players don't even have a choice when it comes to the mods they use, if they want to play multiplayer, unless they want to start their own server, recruit players, deal with griefers, etc.

 

[Dex Luther]

Agreed. But if anyone ever tries to explain this point, they get so many replies saying:

that they tend to just give up.

It might look like you have a choice between breeding high-sappiness trees or setting up a SC2 tree farm - but how many people have seriously evaluated both options and then decided to go for the tree breeding? None (or almost none). Although they had a choice between the two outcomes, only one of them could rationally be chosen.

Consider an analogy. In real life if you want meat you have a choice between buying it from a shop, or hunting animals and processing them yourself. Almost everyone chooses to buy it from a shop. Is this bad in real life? No, because you have more important things to do than find meat.

But if real life was a game, and significant developer effort had gone into the hunting part of the game, the game designer would definitely not want everyone to get their meat from a shop. If hunting is as fun as the rest of the game, then adding a meat shop would not make the game more fun, but would make it shorter - hence there would be less overall enjoyment for players. When players encounter the point in the game where they need to get meat, the rational decision is for every player is to buy the meat from the shop.

Even if a player realises this and wants his/her game to last longer, he/she is not likely to choose to go hunting. Because the shop exists, going hunting would feel like a waste of time, instead of something that is necessary to progress through the game. Nobody likes wasting time, even in a video game. Especially in multiplayer, where even in a non-competitive game, it would be disheartening to spend two hours hunting for meat and then meet up with your friends who bought the meat from the shop and have two hours more progress than you.

Players don't even have a choice when it comes to the mods they use, if they want to play multiplayer, unless they want to start their own server, recruit players, deal with griefers, etc.

Your analogy fails because there's a lot of people that prefer to hunt even though shops exist. Just because some mod exists that does something one what that all the cool kids think is the best thing since sliced bread, doesn't mean you HAVE to do it too. If everyone jumps off a bridge, are you going to go jump off the bridge too? What does it matter if all your friends took the easy way and you decided to take the longer way?

You say it's non-competitive, but then turn around and treat is as if it's some sort of race or something. It doesn't matter if everyone else is 2 hours or 3 months ahead of you. The point is to do what you want to do, and have fun doing it.

Even if a player realises this and wants his/her game to last longer, he/she is not likely to choose to go hunting. Because the shop exists, going hunting would feel like a waste of time, instead of something that is necessary to progress through the game. Nobody likes wasting time, even in a video game. Especially in multiplayer, where even in a non-competitive game, it would be disheartening to spend two hours hunting for meat and then meet up with your friends who bought the meat from the shop and have two hours more progress than you.

What if those friends started playing 2 months before you did? Should everyone start over because you joined the server and would feel bad that everyone has more progress than you?

 

[CrissHill]

Not all modpacks are built like FTB is. Some modpacks might only have 10 mods when others have 100+. It is almost impossible for a mod developer to balance their mods to all of these different packs. This is why I think the final responsibility to balance the mods should go to whoever makes the modpack instead of the single mod's developers.

Currently only a few mods give good enough configurations to balance their mod with other mods in a pack, rest of the mods need to be modified (if sourcecode is available). I wish someone more clever than me would come up with a tool that made all this easier.

 

[Maul_Junior]

Normally, when you make a suggestion that is rejected, do you continue to make the same suggestion over and over again? Balance in my opinion is almost irrelevant especially if you are a player. You do get to choose to do what you want to do you aren't forced to do what you think is less satisfying. Instead of focusing on one, possibly poorly worded, part of Greevir's comment, you should focus on the good point he makes - use the mods you find fun and ignore the ones that for whatever reason you don't like.

By the way I am using Railcraft boilers to power my Mass Fab via Mekanism's universal cable, I hope you are ok with that.

Also, can we all please agree that what we do in the privacy of our own kitchens need not be scrutinized by the FTB community, even if it that includes making terribly unoriginal cheesecakes.

Was just reading with popcorn, but this made me stop.

Mekanism has universal cable?

*investigates*

Also

It might look like you have a choice between breeding high-sappiness trees or setting up a SC2 tree farm - but how many people have seriously evaluated both options and then decided to go for the tree breeding? None (or almost none). Although they had a choice between the two outcomes, only one of them could rationally be chosen.

I breed trees. Tend to use SC2/MFR, sure. But that doesn't mean I just leave it at that.

Even if a player realises this and wants his/her game to last longer, he/she is not likely to choose to go hunting. Because the shop exists, going hunting would feel like a waste of time, instead of something that is necessary to progress through the game. Nobody likes wasting time, even in a video game. Especially in multiplayer, where even in a non-competitive game, it would be disheartening to spend two hours hunting for meat and then meet up with your friends who bought the meat from the shop and have two hours more progress than you.

But how do you DEFINE progressing through modded Minecraft. Getting to the end of a tech tree?

eh.

I tend to get distracted by--Is that a coffee machine?

Heh.

Anyway, I tend to have 15+ projects going on in my world simaltaneously. I RARELY ever get to "end-mod" content. Because I don't care if you can get OMG Ridiculous EU/t/storage via Gregtech (if/when it's installed), I still like all the other mods, and I piddle around in the 32 EU/t region 95% of the time. I've built like 1 nuclear reactor in my entire Minecraft career. Never had one blow. Though on one server I did repeatedly blow out the bottom of the world (read: bedrock) by not having enough water pumps for combustion engines that were on bedrock. That was fun.

Never built a single boiler.

Never really progressed past Vanilla Forestry bees (even though most of the time I have Binnie's mods installed).

because who the hell cares about *THE MOST POWERFUL* system out there?

It's my damn sandbox, and I'll keep using the kiddy toys I've been playing with for years even though I'm 25, thank you very much.

They're more fun for me.

And in the end, fun is more important to me than *EFFICIENCY*

I'm the kid who spent 20 minutes in Zelda: Twilight Princess repeatedly slamming Wolf-Link into a wall while laughing hysterically while people watching me play got super frustrated. Both aspects of that were enjoyable to me. Then I ended up not beating the game.

 

[immibis]

Your analogy fails because there's a lot of people that prefer to hunt even though shops exist. Just because some mod exists that does something one what that all the cool kids think is the best thing since sliced bread, doesn't mean you HAVE to do it too.

I forgot to add "if the thing you are working towards is not hunting-related." If I tell someone interested in hunting to make a meat pie, they will probably go and buy the meat from the shop. (I don't know anyone interesting in hunting)

If everyone jumps off a bridge, are you going to go jump off the bridge too? What does it matter if all your friends took the easy way and you decided to take the longer way?

If our shared goal is "get down there," and I'm not scared of jumping off the bridge (e.g. the bridge is 1m off the ground), then my friends are smarter than me.

You say it's non-competitive, but then turn around and treat is as if it's some sort of race or something. It doesn't matter if everyone else is 2 hours or 3 months ahead of you.

What if those friends started playing 2 months before you did? Should everyone start over because you joined the server and would feel bad that everyone has more progress than you?

You're right, it doesn't matter if they are 2 hours or 3 months ahead of you. It's not about comparing yourself to your friends, it's about comparing yourself to you if you'd made different decisions. You don't want to stop and think "Damn, I could be 2 hours further ahead if I'd done that other thing."

The point is to do what you want to do, and have fun doing it.

If I want to build a fusion reactor, and I need some power to run the machines, I'm not going to choose the slower route to get power, because then it would take longer to get to the fusion reactor part.
If I then decide to go back and breed trees for ethanol, it's going to feel like a complete waste of time, instead of something that works towards a bigger goal.

 

[PierceSG]

Yes, for me, MineCraft is definitely a non-competitive game unless the server is setup to be PvP based.
It's a game where players from different places and background come together to have fun, what is fun and balanced for you might be boring and tedious to them, what might be interesting and engaging to them might be "overpowered" and is an exploit to you.
In the end, the mod is made in the author's point of view, you have the choice to play with it or not.
And you could also endeavour to create a mod that encompasses your vision of "balance" and share it with other like-minded individuals, instead of trying to convince others to agree with your view of "balance" when there isn't one.

 

[Maul_Junior]

I forgot to add "if the thing you are working towards is not hunting-related." If I tell someone interested in hunting to make a meat pie, they will probably go and buy the meat from the shop. (I don't know anyone interesting in hunting)


If our shared goal is "get down there," and I'm not scared of jumping off the bridge (e.g. the bridge is 1m off the ground), then my friends are smarter than me.


You're right, it doesn't matter if they are 2 hours or 3 months ahead of you. It's not about comparing yourself to your friends, it's about comparing yourself to you if you'd made different decisions. You don't want to stop and think "Damn, I could be 2 hours further ahead if I'd done that other thing."


If I want to build a fusion reactor, and I need some power to run the machines, I'm not going to choose the slower route to get power, because then it would take longer to get to the fusion reactor part.
If I then decide to go back and breed trees for ethanol, it's going to feel like a complete waste of time, instead of something that works towards a bigger goal.

How can something you ENJOY be a waste of time?

And Hell yes I want to go hunting. Only my lack of IRL guns and school are interfering with going hunting. If I wanted to, my parent's new place has tons of deer.

And what's the big rush to a fusion reactor, anyway? Why not slow down, get it right the first time, and enjoy the ride?

Or maybe consider it part of *completeness*

 

[immibis]

How can something you ENJOY be a waste of time?

You find it a waste of time, so you don't enjoy it, so you don't do it.

And Hell yes I want to go hunting. Only my lack of IRL guns and school are interfering with going hunting. If I wanted to, my parent's new place has tons of deer.

So if I told you to make a meat pie, and you agreed for some reason, what would you do?

And what's the big rush to a fusion reactor, anyway? Why not slow down, get it right the first time, and enjoy the ride?

That's a different question. If you want a fusion reactor, then what I said applies.

If fusion reactors aren't your thing, maybe you want to build a castle out of stone brick in 1.4.7. Then you need a stone brick factory, and you need to go and learn how cobblestone generators, block breakers and pneumatic tubes work, and how to connect RedPower tubes to a BuildCraft crafting table... or you could just smush together an igneous extruder, powered furnace, and cyclic assembler.