Unfortunately, far too often, the opposite happens, people decide to dislike something and ignore anyone who says otherwise. This is not a mental illness (though sometimes I think perhaps it should be), but Stockholm Syndrome certainly is. You also have continued to ignore any counterarguments to your point, So I have to assume you agree with them. We have already established that gregtech is not grindy in any way, and that long wait times only serve to encourage automation.
FTB Mod Discussion: Greg-Tech
- Thread starter Sky Noble
- Start date
Some people like GT, some people don't. It's a matter of preference.
Both opinions are entirely valid, and you are simply insulting people whose opinions differ from your own while leveling accusations of narcissism and egomania at other people.
Made me smile though.
I am merely stating the obvious and even if it is obvious, pointing out the reasons why I have stated those facts. If you disagree with me, you are welcome to prove it with data, using snarky remarks without providing facts will not help you to explain your thoughts.
there is something wrong with those 2 posts...
its a bit silly for a mod, that has no decent automating tools, to encourage automation.
You do believe you have established, in essence belief requires fiction instead of fact. I've already shown a counter argument to your argument and you are still stuck on with your cognitive dissonance. Indeed there is someone who continues to ignore counter arguments and sticks to a belief long destroyed by facts, I wonder who.
I do hope, next time you reply to me, you'll read what I do write.
I have read your post quite thouroughly, and yet you have not addressed either the availability of overclockers or the use of automation and parallelism. Perhaps you could point those out to me? And in response to loufmier, I suggest you try out greg's own automation system. It is arguably the most powerful small-scale automation system yet.
Lol. Yeah, you 'established' that. Like I said before; you're so stuck in your mindset that I don't see any point in discussing the merits of GregTech with you any further. So no, I don't agree with you.
I know your type. You stubbornly stick to your views and when people get fed up with you claim you 'won' because they can't be arsed anymore. It's rather typical for internet discussions. IRL people would've rolled their eyes at you and just have left, leaving you sitting alone and from then on being known as 'that guy you don't want to engage in conversation with'.
Excuse me? What were these counter arguments exactly?
Was it that Gregorious doesn't know about game theory. "According to the game theory, an ideal game should have equal gain proportional to the amount of effort spent though in GTech," (btw. I've never ever heard about this and i've been a professional game designer for the past 13 years)
Was it that it's supposedly against common courtesy in modding scene?
Was it that people who like GT have stockholm syndrome?
Was it that free to play games are grindy?
Was it that there are mods that have easier recipes than GT?
i`ll look into it. although knowing how greg tend to do his stuff, i have some doubs about it.
can anyone explain, how people determine recipe`s difficulty?
I offer my sincere thanks for reading my post throughly and I think others will be quite content if you go through the same effort to read theirs as well, namely post #213 and #221 containing answers to your questions. There are two more posts after mine but I did not mention them hence it would be dishonest to mention them.
Was it that Gregorious doesn't know about game theory
It is a shame that you do not know such theory, I do blame poor education. You can easily google it, and you will learn a lot from it thought it will not help you professionally if you are designing facebook games.
Was it that it's supposedly against common courtesy in modding scene?
FTB stands for common courtesy of mod makers, we do respect their wish and ask permission to use their mods, modders among us use certain code blocks with permissions, and Gregor goes out and modifies every bit of game mechanic to make other mods dependent on his add-on. It is a shame that a professional game designer such as you couldn't notice the pattern in his add-on design.
Was it that people who like GT have stockholm syndrome?
Being stuck in an awful grind and being happy about it, please do google Stockholm Syndrome and read about it.
Was it that free to play games are grindy?
Please do read my post, the explanation is given right after statement of observation.
Was it that there are mods that have easier recipes than GT?
Cognitive dissonance is an awful thing, I've told that GTech is not a hard add-on and does not make game harder and pointed out that there are successful mods out there. What you are doing is accusing me of something I haven't done which is rude at best.
Prequisite requirement to crafting such object. The most usual argument against gregtech is that a Quarry, instead of just costing 11 diamonds and some metals (without GT) it takes titanium, which requires quite a few machines to produce and stable 128EU/tick+ supply.
Quarry is a perfect example because of how overpowered it is and how quickly you can get it without GT (less than 40 minutes from starting)
i see no difficulty change in quarry recipe, but only cost increase and additional time investment required. if that`s definition of difficulty then i`m a cactus.
since you`ve mentioned a quarry, its also a perfect example of design flaw in gregtech
No, you're merely stating your opinion .. and you don't get to condemn me as being "snarky" when your previous comment eludes to my having a mental illness for liking something that you don't.
I like playing on a GT pack more than on a non-GT pack. It's that simple. You can't credibly argue that my preference is "wrong" and that yours is "right".
It's clear that you're in an entrenched position and are not receptive to any real discussion on this issue so there's not much more to be said.
No, you're merely stating your opinion .. and you don't get to condemn me as being "snarky" when your previous comment eludes to my having a mental illness for liking something that you don't.
I like playing on a GT pack more than on a non-GT pack. It's that simple. You can't credibly argue that my preference is "wrong" and that yours is "right".
It's clear that you're in an entrenched position and are not receptive to any real discussion on this issue so there's not much more to be said.
Please do read post number #232, ah and yes, it is okay to disagree and yes we aren't having a real discussion when I can reply a post with a reference to an earlier post.
so instead of explaining the theory you just decided to insult me? Thanks. And no, I've never done facebook games.
EDIT: And to be more precise, I do know a theory called the game theory but that can't be the one you're referring to.
I'm sure FTB also decided to add GT into their modpacks not other way around. Modding already is a derivative work and modifies the original game made by Mojang, getting pissed at someone modifying how your mod acts is really weird. GT has really good config options and you can modify it to your will.
GTech actually works better in 1.5.2 than it did in 1.4.7. Alot of the mod authors have started to implement GT recipes for their mods. GT does make the game harder, it forces you to use tools that you otherwise wouldnt. You can't just rush to get a quarry or rush to solar power.
There are lots of good things GT is doing but also there's lots of things that i disagree with.
Xeonen, you are engaged in circular logic. your supposed counterarguments are based on the assumption that what we are arguing against is true. We have shown several times that if you actually played gregtech, you would know that it is not grindy in the slightest. I don't understand how you think you can make a claim like that if you have never played it. You clearly have no experience with the mod, and that really destoys your credibility.
Furthermore, you have made a classic scarcrow fallacy. We have never stated that gregtech makes the game "hard".
Furthermore, you have made a classic scarcrow fallacy. We have never stated that gregtech makes the game "hard".
I've explained the core part of it in my post and left the rest for anyone interested enough to know the details. Making facebook games is not a bad thing, albeit different it requires a set of skills, if you are that offended I can happily offer my sincere apologies.
It would be just speculation so I will just state one fact and let people to make assumptions, core of FTB plays on Forgecraft servers, there are two Forgecraft servers with third using Terra Firma Craft is coming, none of them uses GTech. In case of argument that Forgecraft is for bug testings, only Forgecraft 2 has this as it's main purpose and there is Forgecraft 3 with Terra Firma Craft.
I can safely disagree with you on the subject of config options, a good config option can be found in both Thermal Expansion and Forestry, especially forestry has a global "difficulty" settings. I have tried GTech on 1.4.7 and earlier versions, I may give it another chance in summer to see if it really changed the way it behaves. Again, GTech does not make the game harder, mining five minutes more is does not mean hard or waiting 10 minutes for a machine to complete it's job is not hard, it is just more grind.
I am not saying that GTech does not have it's positive parts, the idea behind industrial centrifuge and industrial electrolyzer is great though their implementation is total failure. Fission reactor is also a good idea, industrial grinder is also a good idea yet it's implementation is also a failure, if you have that much resource in your hands you do not require to use an industrial grinder. Since you are a game designer, I can give a different example; GTech is a game where beating an optional miniboss encountered in early game requires lets say Oblivinium Sword of Miniboss Slayer yet in order to craft it you need to beat one of the final bosses then what is the need for such a sword? It becomes pointless and collecting other ingredients which require ten times more time than required to beat the game itself makes that sword totally useless.
If GTech was not an add-on to IC2 and a mod to Minecraft and a mod not compatable with other mods like Terra Firma, I can say mechanics might change and it might turn into an acceptable mod.
And people are still saying, GTech does not introduce grind to the game, please disable GTech and play once with it disabled.
Dunno why this has anything to do with anything as Forgecraft is just another private server. Slowpoke actually wanted one of the forgecraft servers to have GTech... We all know that Gregtech isnt for everyone and this is no different in the modding community. (or atleast the host of Forgecraft servers).
I am not saying that GTech does not have it's positive parts, the idea behind industrial centrifuge and industrial electrolyzer is great though their implementation is total failure. Fission reactor is also a good idea, industrial grinder is also a good idea yet it's implementation is also a failure, if you have that much resource in your hands you do not require to use an industrial grinder. Since you are a game designer, I can give a different example;
I completely agree with you on this Xeonen and that GT is nowhere perfect. I still think it offers me a better experience than a modpack without gregtech. I just disagree with the grindy part, because to me, grindy equals repetition.. For me GT adds the more incentives to automate things. Only thing that i really -HATE- in gregtech is the Matter Fabricator and the amount of iridium some of the endgame recipes take.
That is what I am saying, it isn't for everyone and it isn't for the majority of modders since it isn't implemented in their own server. If only we had data on the download rate of 1.5.2 with and without GTech and Direwolf20 versus Mindcrack packs we might have an objective data on the number of people who like to use GTech and who don't.
Indeed, grindy is repetition of same thing, if you think GTech brings more variety than the grind, then it is a good addition for you. Time will show which way GTech will move, balance or imbalance.
Kenken, I notice that you and the few people actually defending this mod are resorting more to insults rather than facts. Please stop that. Remember what the first page postings said, we don't need this to be a 20 page flame war. You've said your piece, move on.
Indeed, the bulk of any arguments against the points presented as to why the mod is bad seem to consist of 'How so?' and 'I don't see how that's true' or just blindly ignoring the evidence and asking that the point gets proven again. At which point it is. Rinse, repeat.
Sorry to single you out, it kind of applies to everyone else here too, but you're probably the loudest of the supporters here. At least Xeo and Criss are finally agreeing on some things ;p
We've been doing this dance for 13 pages now. Nobody is going to concede, but as a somewhat neutral person here (I did give it a fair, open minded shot at least, and I pointed out parts of the mod I do like) I can just say that the points against so far heavily outweigh the points for.
Indeed, the bulk of any arguments against the points presented as to why the mod is bad seem to consist of 'How so?' and 'I don't see how that's true' or just blindly ignoring the evidence and asking that the point gets proven again. At which point it is. Rinse, repeat.
Sorry to single you out, it kind of applies to everyone else here too, but you're probably the loudest of the supporters here. At least Xeo and Criss are finally agreeing on some things ;p
We've been doing this dance for 13 pages now. Nobody is going to concede, but as a somewhat neutral person here (I did give it a fair, open minded shot at least, and I pointed out parts of the mod I do like) I can just say that the points against so far heavily outweigh the points for.
Yet getting Awesome Sowrd of Awesomeness (quarry), that lets you kill everything with single blow, on first defeated enemy is a good game design? You don't see people QQing about that, do you?
Here you complain about tool that actually lets you decrease amount of grind you have problem with. The only thing in GT that is really "grindy" is Fussion Reactor And that's top-tier endgame stuff. If you don't feel like going for it who forces you? For some people it's a goal to go towards. Neither Ind. Grinder or Electrillizer require much resources to make. And GT actually helps you start with easier MFE and MFSU recipes for example.
And i home it's just unintentional mistake and you really know the difference between fusion and fission.
BTW. How would you place a difference between "hard" and "grindy"? I guess you'd say learning how to play the violine is not hard, just grindy, would you?
Maybe just drop saying GT is hard and let people play however they want, without going into who is "right" about it.