Landmarks set the quarry size. He owns it once the quarry is down and running. Its stealing and I would give 1 warning and ban the second time.
A moral dilemma - was I right or wrong
- Thread starter b0bst3r
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So once the quarry is running, the player owns the land below it.
By that logic, what happens if I start a quarry in the middle of the sky, directly above your quarry, with the frame being one block thicker than your quarry frame.
Does your quarry belong to me now?
Of course, I don't know if this would actually work (i.e., whether a quarry can run above another operating quarry), but it is solely for the sake of argument.
Thoughts?
If the quarry you placed above mined blocks above thats fine. (some people put quarries low in the earth) HOWEVER if your quarry then runs into their and destroys their frams and/or steels ore already claimed then that would be stealing. Your taking a risk by doing that and spiting in the face of the spirit of no griefing.
That's just infantile griefing and would deserve an immediate ban.
Oh yeah, that's definitely griefing. I'm just talking about where the line is drawn between "block ownership", just because a quarry is running. I personally think that there is no right answer, only a preference by the server owner. It just has to be explicitly stated and decided beforehand. *shrugs*.
I think this is the "technically the rules say" type of mindset that KirinDave was warning us about.
Plopping a quarry down above an active quarry is in no way logical or justifiable. It also shouldn't have to be explicitly stated that it's against the rules or the spirit of fair play. It should be obvious that doing this is wrong.
A way to make it not griefing would be to build a house right over the quarry. I now own the blocks and you lost your quarry in the process... That's not how it works. Unless you are playing on a server with friends or it is explicitly stated in the rules that quarry's = ownership of all the blocks under it. It's fare game in my eyes that what isn't protected either in the rules or by other means is up for the taking, Doc stated a few of the means that could have rendered this impossible for the other players to mine the ores.
This wouldn't even be a debateble issue on my server. I'd let them know that it was a crappy thing to do then send them on their way. That behavior doesn't belong on my server. We're all about respecting and helping each other.
Why not setup quarry over some ones base then, its the same kind of warped logic, come on common sense dont seem to so common any more, this for 99% of players is a no brainer so why is this even a debate.
Rule 1: don't be a dick*
*This server is a dictatorship, whatever the admin/mod decides is being a dick, is what being a dick is. If you believe someone is being a dick, tell a mod. If a mod is being a dick, tell an admin. If an admin is being a dick, tell the server owner.
*This server is a dictatorship, whatever the admin/mod decides is being a dick, is what being a dick is. If you believe someone is being a dick, tell a mod. If a mod is being a dick, tell an admin. If an admin is being a dick, tell the server owner.
This whole mess stems from poorly defined server rules.
So before I get my ass handed to me let me try and state my view and then what in all fairness should keep this sort of stuff from being questionable in the first place.
My view is if and this is a big IF the quarry owner had set up a fully power functioning quarry and the two miners then went in and mined out of the ore to deny the quarry owner the ore or just because it was 'free and easy' ore. Then yeah I would think that was fairly dickish. If this is the first time the did it warn them and redefine your server rules better. But that is just my personal view on it.
But here is the rub. If your running a server with people you do not know well you really have to define your rules. What is and not ok. Just assume that everyone does not know better. Because in this case yes there are no rules on your server over what is counted as owned. And because of this you run into a huge gray area because sure while taking ore as it is uncovered is kind of dickish what if they had been branch mining under the quarry unaware it was there would that be stealing? What if I had a branch mine already and someone dropped a quarry on top who owns the ore? When it comes to player disputes like this is ends up being a lot of he said she said. So you need to have more clearly defined rules on what counts as ownership when it comes to land and a way to inform players who owns what. If you want to say a Quarry claims land then you need to put that in your rules and doing so you might want to also define any limits to this to stop as Doc pointed out someone building multiple max size quarry just to claim land.
The problem is simple rules that are poorly defined invite people to do stuff like this. So unless you trust your players to be sensible do not use overly simplified rules. When it doubt it is far better to have well defined and more rules then to have overly simplified ones. Having a rule list that is just Don't Steal Don't Grief leaves way to much open for debate.
So before I get my ass handed to me let me try and state my view and then what in all fairness should keep this sort of stuff from being questionable in the first place.
My view is if and this is a big IF the quarry owner had set up a fully power functioning quarry and the two miners then went in and mined out of the ore to deny the quarry owner the ore or just because it was 'free and easy' ore. Then yeah I would think that was fairly dickish. If this is the first time the did it warn them and redefine your server rules better. But that is just my personal view on it.
But here is the rub. If your running a server with people you do not know well you really have to define your rules. What is and not ok. Just assume that everyone does not know better. Because in this case yes there are no rules on your server over what is counted as owned. And because of this you run into a huge gray area because sure while taking ore as it is uncovered is kind of dickish what if they had been branch mining under the quarry unaware it was there would that be stealing? What if I had a branch mine already and someone dropped a quarry on top who owns the ore? When it comes to player disputes like this is ends up being a lot of he said she said. So you need to have more clearly defined rules on what counts as ownership when it comes to land and a way to inform players who owns what. If you want to say a Quarry claims land then you need to put that in your rules and doing so you might want to also define any limits to this to stop as Doc pointed out someone building multiple max size quarry just to claim land.
The problem is simple rules that are poorly defined invite people to do stuff like this. So unless you trust your players to be sensible do not use overly simplified rules. When it doubt it is far better to have well defined and more rules then to have overly simplified ones. Having a rule list that is just Don't Steal Don't Grief leaves way to much open for debate.
You have near infinite space and you do this? Dont be a douche. The only moral dilemma is you admitting to it.
While I agree with this in theory, expecting a server owner to be able to come up with every single situation which can be abused is far from easy.
Take this thread as an example. Before reading it, the thought of this being done had never crossed my mind. I'm not a thief nor do I think like one. Unless/until I am actually exposed to situations like this I simply don't think about them.
If I were a server owner or admin, it would take situations like this for me to be able to make a rule to cover situations like this.
Expecting server owners to know every single way that these types of people will use to grief others is futile.
Its clearly parasitic and dishonorable. I wouldnt allow it on my server and honestly the people I talked to laughed at the idea you could defend that action as not griefing. Someone had to power that quarry and spend effort setting it up and your going to come along and steal the things the quarry is trying to get? Thats totally wrong. Its not a fuzzy line. Its clear out and out taking advantage of another player.
This is the reason why I only have two rules on my server. The first one I mentioned before: "Be excellent to each other" and the second one is "No automated mining in the overworld"
It really avoids discussing technicalities on what is really stealing or not. If I think something is not a really nice thing to do, I will tell the persons involved about it. In this case I would tell the players to stop doing what they were doing in the quarry as I feel it is messing with someone else his quarry.
I rarely have to use my admin powers to deal out swift justice
Your server sounds like a wonderful place to play.
His server sounds like modded minecraft heaven.Your server sounds like a wonderful place to play.
Which is why my point view on the issue is warn them and update the rules.
I would never make a rule for something like that. Anyone who needs to have it spelled out why that is uncool I'd rather not have on my server. That person will just cause problem after problem after problem that I just don't have time for.