A moral dilemma - was I right or wrong
- Thread starter b0bst3r
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If this is a typical community type server set up for mature players who are supposed to respect each other, then:
Unless they're under 8 years old or have a mental handicap of some sort I'd remove them from the server sans warning. I wouldn't want anyone who'd do such a thing anywhere on a server I'm playing on. I remember being an adolescent or pre-adolescent and not having the slightest clue or care about what seemed to me to be a care-free world, so I do understand the juvenile impulse to be a prick, however there's no need to tolerate it in a private server.
It's a testimony to the human spirit that in an infinite world with resources so incredibly easy to pick up for oneself without bothering anyone that some will still find it more attractive to parasite others and recreate an experience of zero-sum-gamesmanship. We carry our outlook with us, even when circumstances have changed quite radically.
Unless they're under 8 years old or have a mental handicap of some sort I'd remove them from the server sans warning. I wouldn't want anyone who'd do such a thing anywhere on a server I'm playing on. I remember being an adolescent or pre-adolescent and not having the slightest clue or care about what seemed to me to be a care-free world, so I do understand the juvenile impulse to be a prick, however there's no need to tolerate it in a private server.
It's a testimony to the human spirit that in an infinite world with resources so incredibly easy to pick up for oneself without bothering anyone that some will still find it more attractive to parasite others and recreate an experience of zero-sum-gamesmanship. We carry our outlook with us, even when circumstances have changed quite radically.
I don't approve of people putting up 16 chunk quarries, no. I also think people who use them on the surface should be drawn and quartered.
That says nothing about quarries in general. Just the poor uses they're put too.[DOUBLEPOST=1374816100][/DOUBLEPOST]
I don't play, and never have played, with powerconverters. But I challenge you to catch any ore on a single chunk running on 48MJ/t - which is what I power my quarries at.
Sure, you can have a slow, max powered quarry. Just make it too big.
That's an orange to the apple, and a really stupid scenario too boot, so I won't even bother pretending you're making a serious argument here.
So, your action as hypothetical server owner is, instead of just making a rule against misusing quarries in ways you don't like, to encourage grief against players who use them in ways you don't like. I think I'd rather go play on a server with GregTech.
That's stealing. That's like when I'm playing the Walls and I mine some iron, and someone comes and picks it up. Yes technically it was no ones, but I spent the time to get it and find it, he just happened to pick it up. The whole point of a quarry is to get mined resources, it does cost something to do so, and everything in the 1x1-64x64 space is that persons resources. If you do not count it as stealing resources it could also be counted as stealing energy. I don't recommend bringing down the ban hammer, but I do recommend a warning, and possible timeout for the players.
^^This, this and only this...
People need to understand the spirit of the rules and what they are trying to prevent/ensure. It would be a horrible shame if every server had to detail every minute detail, I personally wouldn't want people on my server looking for way around the rules. The rules are there for everyone's benefit not just to satisfy a mythical megalomaniacal server owner.
Infallible
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And you can get warned for being a griefer and then banned if you keep on griefing. It's trivial to avoid this kind of problem. You just make a "one quarry" rule, and you reserve the land for that quarry by placing the landmarks. Yes, you can "own" a 64x64 area in the unclaimed territories. End of problem.
This is the reason why I only have two rules on my server. The first one I mentioned before: "Be excellent to each other" and the second one is "No automated mining in the overworld"
It really avoids discussing technicalities on what is really stealing or not. If I think something is not a really nice thing to do, I will tell the persons involved about it. In this case I would tell the players to stop doing what they were doing in the quarry as I feel it is messing with someone else his quarry.
I rarely have to use my admin powers to deal out swift justice
It really avoids discussing technicalities on what is really stealing or not. If I think something is not a really nice thing to do, I will tell the persons involved about it. In this case I would tell the players to stop doing what they were doing in the quarry as I feel it is messing with someone else his quarry.
I rarely have to use my admin powers to deal out swift justice
I don't get why this is even an argument. The quarry is obviously placed to mine the stuff below it, and the most of the ore would never have been revealed if not for the quarry; anyone arguing that the ore isn't owned in it's natural state are arguing semantics. People arguing semantics for personal gains are usually dicks. People being dicks on a server where the rules "no griefing" and "no non-consensual pvp" are in effect have nothing to do on that server, and if I ran a server they'd be banned with no warning.
Let's look upon the question in another way: Did the aforementioned action of these players cause another player grief in some way? Yes! In the most extreme of cases, this quarry belonged to mr. Houseman who can at most play one hour a day. Fortunately, he just set up his first quarry and is looking forward to logging on the next day to 5 stacks of iron and half a stack of diamonds for all those projects he has lined up... Oh, wait, perhaps not.
It's griefing, pure and simple. The only way I'd ever say this kind of behavior was okay, is if it was a prank, and you'd be damned if you did something like this before making sure the player being pranked was okay with it or not.
Let's look upon the question in another way: Did the aforementioned action of these players cause another player grief in some way? Yes! In the most extreme of cases, this quarry belonged to mr. Houseman who can at most play one hour a day. Fortunately, he just set up his first quarry and is looking forward to logging on the next day to 5 stacks of iron and half a stack of diamonds for all those projects he has lined up... Oh, wait, perhaps not.
It's griefing, pure and simple. The only way I'd ever say this kind of behavior was okay, is if it was a prank, and you'd be damned if you did something like this before making sure the player being pranked was okay with it or not.
It's an argument because some people like picking holes in the rules and taking them literally just to wind people up. Rules that aren't 100% perfect and foolproof are just there to be ridiculed and abused.
We actually implemented another rule on our server because a single person thought it was okay to go into the quarry holes of other and mine the minerals exposed in the walls there. Since that's something normally the quarry owner does after moving his quarry to a new spot, people got a bit annoyed with that person. He then went "but there's no rule against it" and hey presto, then there was a rule. We also extended this to strip mining below someone's quarry. It's kinda annoying to find out after about 24 hours of running that all the diamonds are gone.
There is no real 'land ownership' or whatever in Minecraft but for crying out loud; the terrain is more or less unlimited. Is it so hard just to go find your own spot intead of leaching off of others? If you want some iron or whatever you can just ASK and people are happy to give em to you.[DOUBLEPOST=1374831217][/DOUBLEPOST]
It's not an argument. Some people are dicks. IRL they can't get their rocks off because they'd probably be punched in the nose. From behind the safety of their monitors they can be as 'tough' and they want.[DOUBLEPOST=1374831324][/DOUBLEPOST]
IRL laws aren't 100% perfect and foolproof and still being a total dick gets you thrown in jail. I don't understand why people when anonymous suddenly feel the need to act like that. They must've had really horrible youths or something...
There is no real 'land ownership' or whatever in Minecraft but for crying out loud; the terrain is more or less unlimited. Is it so hard just to go find your own spot intead of leaching off of others? If you want some iron or whatever you can just ASK and people are happy to give em to you.[DOUBLEPOST=1374831217][/DOUBLEPOST]
It's not an argument. Some people are dicks. IRL they can't get their rocks off because they'd probably be punched in the nose. From behind the safety of their monitors they can be as 'tough' and they want.[DOUBLEPOST=1374831324][/DOUBLEPOST]
IRL laws aren't 100% perfect and foolproof and still being a total dick gets you thrown in jail. I don't understand why people when anonymous suddenly feel the need to act like that. They must've had really horrible youths or something...
I've always played by the system that if I can see another players build on the mini map at 0.5 scale, then I'm entering owned "territory", and so shouldn't take any resources in that area.
End of the day, it's all down to common sense, and respect. Two qualities that are still lacking in a lot of humanity.
End of the day, it's all down to common sense, and respect. Two qualities that are still lacking in a lot of humanity.
simplest thing to do is change the rules (include the "be excellent to each other"), give a warning and ban the next guy that forces a rule change like that
remember that a MC server is a dictatorship and "this is a free country" is not a valid argument
remember that a MC server is a dictatorship and "this is a free country" is not a valid argument
This is still going on & its basically Doc v the rest, Christ you got to know when its time to stop Doc, arguing a view to the point of idealism does not make it correct, its still your view & as you can see its far from the majority, what we are seeing here is a case of he who can argue most/best/longest wins!!, time to except your view is yours & not held by 90% of the vocal forums.
Oh & hi bio mate sup, I'll pm ya over the weekend for a chat.
Oh & hi bio mate sup
, I'll pm ya over the weekend for a chat.Being griefed for real is not the same as what is happening here. The items this quarry owner is trying to get is yet to be his. If its not a close server of friends things like this happen all the time, its one reason why I stopped using a quarry. With the tools that ftb provides like thaumcraft blocks and doors even being able to have your base griefed is your fault because you didnt try hard enough.
Well, I don't want to play with people that think that way. I guess if the other people on the server are of much the same opinion as you, then it's ok for that server.
the world isnt black and white, dont try to make your server that way. whats the intent of this behavior? to harass the quarry owner. there is no other legitimate reason. one warning, then ban.
I'll try to throw in my two cents.
If the two players had homes near the quarry, then I could understand aggravation at a massive hole in the landscape, and could understand rage clouding common sense. However, by the wording in the OP, the two players set up shop IN the quarry after it started, having a merry old time.
Personally, I'd step back and let anarchy fall upon the server by giving the victim permission to retaliate, but I can understand that isn't really an option on some servers, especially this one. Total war is fun, but only in organized events.
As it stands, I wouldn't ban the perpetrators either, as they have to atone for their crimes, for that is what I see it as. They willfully rendered the work of one of the members useless. They might as well have stuck a filter pipe on the quarry and left. Not cool.
Nothing less of setting them in adventure mode and keeping them locked in a player jail for a month or so as a warning would be satisfactory in my book. If discipline is to be administered, you might as well have fun while doing it.
It should discourage repeat incidents, and also mollify any others who had sneaky ideas.
RUURRUUS!
If the two players had homes near the quarry, then I could understand aggravation at a massive hole in the landscape, and could understand rage clouding common sense. However, by the wording in the OP, the two players set up shop IN the quarry after it started, having a merry old time.
Personally, I'd step back and let anarchy fall upon the server by giving the victim permission to retaliate, but I can understand that isn't really an option on some servers, especially this one. Total war is fun, but only in organized events.
As it stands, I wouldn't ban the perpetrators either, as they have to atone for their crimes, for that is what I see it as. They willfully rendered the work of one of the members useless. They might as well have stuck a filter pipe on the quarry and left. Not cool.
Nothing less of setting them in adventure mode and keeping them locked in a player jail for a month or so as a warning would be satisfactory in my book. If discipline is to be administered, you might as well have fun while doing it.
It should discourage repeat incidents, and also mollify any others who had sneaky ideas.
RUURRUUS!
I think it should be against the rules seeing as the other person made the quarry, the power for the quarry, and set up the land for the quarry.