Why no new launcher.

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Vauthil

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Jul 29, 2019
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Sorry if I came off sounding like you didn't know what you were doing or how to get/keep on track. But the two biggest issues I see in projects again and again, are lack of a clear agreed to scope statement and lack of sponsorship/buy in from the key stakeholders and it sounded like you might be suffering from these. But I now see you've got them covered.
I don't think you have to worry, I've put up similar stuff before and he hasn't killed me yet after all. Although now you have me thinking about this Moderator gig... ;)

We're talking about a moderator at this point, primarily.
I think perhaps in your rush to judgment you may have tripped over something along the way: Jinbobo is not a member of moderation staff here on the forum (which is clearly delineated by having a banner labeled "Forum Moderator" or "Global Moderator" under their name, like mine). He leads the Wiki Team, a separate and discrete unit within FTB and is thus an FTB Team member and shows on the staff display, but he is not a moderator here on the forums. He does not wield a banhammer or similar powers on the forum and, since his word doesn't carry the heavy weight or chilling effect of the ever-imminent threat of a smiting, he doesn't have to parse his language quite as much as I do. :)

So, in fact, you aren't talking about a moderator. I am now going to request that posters please refrain from continuing in this vein as it is distracting from the point of the topic that almost everybody else is discussing here. If you have a disagreement on moderation policy or execution, as always (it is noted in the Forum Rules) you may message us privately to discuss it. Thanks!
 

BeastFeeder

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Jul 29, 2019
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I think Feed the Beast is pretty good for a free product. I know that I wouldn't personally invest the time it requires unless I was getting paid, and I wouldn't put up with the criticism about my efforts unless I was getting paid well.

If those of you who are so disappointed want something that's promptly delivered and updated regularly there has to be some profit in it for someone. Until a person can form a little company and make some decent money at it where they can support a staff and their families (at a bare minimum) there isn't going to be enough manpower or incentive to provide what you want.

Beggars can't be choosers.
 

StarLiner

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Jul 29, 2019
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I have no problem waiting for the launcher, and I have no problem with the FTB team selling merchandise. Though when the latest news item in the launcher is about T-shirts from two months ago, it's hard not to feel a bit uneasy. This was a great post, thank you.
 
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danieledward

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I don't think you have to worry, I've put up similar stuff before and he hasn't killed me yet after all. Although now you have me thinking about this Moderator gig... ;)


I think perhaps in your rush to judgment you may have tripped over something along the way: Jinbobo is not a member of moderation staff here on the forum (which is clearly delineated by having a banner labeled "Forum Moderator" or "Global Moderator" under their name, like mine). He leads the Wiki Team, a separate and discrete unit within FTB and is thus an FTB Team member and shows on the staff display, but he is not a moderator here on the forums. He does not wield a banhammer or similar powers on the forum and, since his word doesn't carry the heavy weight or chilling effect of the ever-imminent threat of a smiting, he doesn't have to parse his language quite as much as I do. :)

So, in fact, you aren't talking about a moderator. I am now going to request that posters please refrain from continuing in this vein as it is distracting from the point of the topic that almost everybody else is discussing here. If you have a disagreement on moderation policy or execution, as always (it is noted in the Forum Rules) you may message us privately to discuss it. Thanks!
1st paragraph is irrelevant.

2nd paragraph, the end bit, is understood, as my last post clearly stated in the EDIT part...
 

Necr0maNceR

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Jul 29, 2019
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You mentioned that you wanted to ad the ability for people to customize the skin. Really, dude, c'mon. Who care's what your launcher looks like. Look at Mojang's launcher for Christ's sake, focus on making the thing work!! If someone wants to work on that, great, let them, but make it clear that you don't want them doing so while you are trying to get the thing out to people, because any time you spend dealing with that, is time taken away from the important task people really care about, and that's getting the thing out the door!!!
I agree. That is a feature I doubt I will ever use, and will bring only a little added pleasure to those who actually do use it. It's cool in concept, but a totally superfluous and merely cosmetic feature. If implementing this feature would cause any significant delay to the release of the launcher, I would skip it entirely. Either that, or leave the groundwork so it can be implemented later.

The same thing is true with the new private pack system. It sounds cool, but unless I'm gravely mistaken, the vast majority of FTB players won't be using it. Most people will just be using the standard FTB packs. In other words, you're spending all this time on a feature most players won't care about or use. The entire launcher is being delayed for everyone by a feature that only matters to a minority. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a feature that should absolutely be added… at some point. What I'm saying is, if at all possible, I think you should release a functioning launcher with the groundwork in place so that feature can be added to it later. I'm sure that even the people who want the new pack creation system would like to have something to play with in the meantime.

Even regarding the new system for downloading mods for the packs sounds cool, but doesn't seem to offer that much benefit. Downloading modpacks from the launcher before didn't take very long, whether it was for the first time or an update to that pack. Launching the modpacks didn't take long either. This new system sounds like it will speed up the process a little, and "standardize" things, but all in all it seems like a lot of work for very little benefit.

The whole point I'm trying to make is, any feature that can be added to the launcher later should be added later. If it's a feature that is fundamental to the new launcher and the way it is being coded, then obviously it can't be put off, However if it can be added later then it should be added later, so the launcher can be pushed out as soon as possible. I understand the desire to have all the shiny new features in place at once so that things look really impressive, but it doesn't seem worth the delays. It just seems like a better idea to add on to it piece by piece, so at least you have something out there.
 
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Hambeau

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I agree. That is a feature I doubt I will ever use, and will bring only a little added pleasure to those who actually do use it. It's cool in concept, but a totally superfluous and merely cosmetic feature. If implementing this feature would cause any significant delay to the release of the launcher, I would skip it entirely. Either that, or leave the groundwork so it can be implemented later.

The same thing is true with the new private pack system. It sounds cool, but unless I'm gravely mistaken, the vast majority of FTB players won't be using it. Most people will just be using the standard FTB packs. In other words, you're spending all this time on a feature most players won't care about or use. The entire launcher is being delayed for everyone by a feature that only matters to a minority. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a feature that should absolutely be added… at some point. What I'm saying is, if at all possible, I think you should release a functioning launcher with the groundwork in place so that feature can be added to it later. I'm sure that even the people who want the new pack creation system would like to have something to play with in the meantime.

Even regarding the new system for downloading mods for the packs sounds cool, but doesn't seem to offer that much benefit. Downloading modpacks from the launcher before didn't take very long, whether it was for the first time or an update to that pack. Launching the modpacks didn't take long either. This new system sounds like it will speed up the process a little, and "standardize" things, but all in all it seems like a lot of work for very little benefit.

The whole point I'm trying to make is, any feature that can be added to the launcher later should be added later. If it's a feature that is fundamental to the new launcher and the way it is being coded, then obviously it can't be put off, However if it can be added later then it should be added later, so the launcher can be pushed out as soon as possible. I understand the desire to have all the shiny new features in place at once so that things look really impressive, but it doesn't seem worth the delays. It just seems like a better idea to add on to it piece by piece, so at least you have something out there.
I'm following similar threads on the Mojang/Curse forums, although those are centered on the most recent changes in 1.7.

I see FtB not only working hard to match up with the loader changes brought about by MC 1.6 but also trying to be proactive for the 1.7 changes as well.

The Conversation with Jaded I heard on the twitch stream yesterday had to do with naming blocks and/or items so that duplication doesn't occur anymore. (Ever wonder why there are 3 types of some metals in Unleashed?). I get the impression that the "Standard Configs" that Slow said would be made available, even for non-FtB packs, is an attempt to standardize and provide a template for Mod developers to follow... including standard nomenclature for the Ore Dictionary. These changes sound like they will allow interchangeable use of resources between Mods, instead of, for example, having to smelt Copper into a Copper Ingot before it can be used.

This standardized naming will be one less thing having to be changed in all the Mods when numeric block IDs are phased out of Vanilla entirely (1.8? 1.9? Only Mojang knows for sure, and it's probably tentative at that).
 

BanzaiBlitz

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Jul 29, 2019
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It is very good to hear an update. Perhaps it wasn't doom and gloom coming through your update, but the FTB team's side of things radiating your own frustrations with numerous delays. Regardless though, it speaks volumes of perseverance towards, to be possibly odd a moment, a team-wide need of nose-jobs due to heavy grindstone efforts! Thank you FTB team for trying as hard as you are! :D

While even a rough ETA is unmanageable currently, perhaps just a two number list to display the numbers of major (multi-layers, foundation levels, crap won't work period stuff) objectives left and necessary legwork items (pack configs, debugging for release, etc.). Both have to hit zero for release and no timeframe is given or implied (numbers can even go up again if needed) but offers a tangible update, vague as it must be, for us FTB fans to feel like we can follow progress even when a way to summarize in words otherwise escapes for whatever circumstances. Anything more defined can of course come where available. One way of putting it is when it's pitch black all around, one tiny blinking light can make all the difference in knowing where you are. :)

And while it's on my mind again, why the heck does Lawbroken have the title "Crazy Batman"? o_O
 

prenetic

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Jul 29, 2019
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I just came here to show my appreciation for all of the hard work and dedication the volunteers put forth to release a great (and free) product the entire community can come together and enjoy. Thanks for the update and I look forward to the finished product.
 

KRWren

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Jul 29, 2019
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I am glad to hear from you about that status. To me no news is much more concerning than bad news.

It sounds like you made a common mistake with projects. You over reached for the size and let feature creep set it. Speaking as Caption Hindsight, you would have been much better off splitting the effect into several smaller updates, while the large project continued adding features as ready. Please take this a constructive criticism as someone who has experienced this in the past my self.

You very much have my sympathy and best wishes.

Thanks

Ken
 

Ray Herring

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Jul 29, 2019
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I think you could take lessons from MCUpdater, SMBarbour has done an awesome job with it, and you might be able to get some inspiration from what he has done.
 

Necr0maNceR

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Jul 29, 2019
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I'm following similar threads on the Mojang/Curse forums, although those are centered on the most recent changes in 1.7.

I see FtB not only working hard to match up with the loader changes brought about by MC 1.6 but also trying to be proactive for the 1.7 changes as well.

The Conversation with Jaded I heard on the twitch stream yesterday had to do with naming blocks and/or items so that duplication doesn't occur anymore. (Ever wonder why there are 3 types of some metals in Unleashed?). I get the impression that the "Standard Configs" that Slow said would be made available, even for non-FtB packs, is an attempt to standardize and provide a template for Mod developers to follow... including standard nomenclature for the Ore Dictionary. These changes sound like they will allow interchangeable use of resources between Mods, instead of, for example, having to smelt Copper into a Copper Ingot before it can be used.

This standardized naming will be one less thing having to be changed in all the Mods when numeric block IDs are phased out of Vanilla entirely (1.8? 1.9? Only Mojang knows for sure, and it's probably tentative at that).
By "standardization" I was referring to how they plan on having it so you download several mods and use them for multiple modpacks instead of downloading each mod multiple times for multiple modpacks. The standard configs, standard nomenclature for the ore dictionary, and so on is the type of thing that should be ready for day 1 of the new launcher. I was referring to less important features that could potentially be skipped or postponed so the launcher and modpacks could be released earlier.
It sounds like you made a common mistake with projects. You over reached for the size and let feature creep set it. Speaking as Caption Hindsight, you would have been much better off splitting the effect into several smaller updates, while the large project continued adding features as ready. Please take this a constructive criticism as someone who has experienced this in the past my self.
This is the sort of thing I'm referring to. Releasing the new features of the launcher over multiple updates, so the most important part can come out sooner.
 

MinqApoc

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Jul 29, 2019
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I know this is a bit off topic, but why won't my ftb let me download the newest versions? it says creeperrepo is down, and to me it obviously is, while a friend of mine can download the .exe without any problems? Wtf is goin on here?
 

un worry

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Jul 29, 2019
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*clap clap clap*
I am surprised at the level of insight you guys have into our team structure and projects.
These three posts, while I understand are intended to be helpful, are rather insulting. They seem to be implying that the FTB team consists of amateurs that don't know what they're doing. The following seems like a pretty good indication that they do, in fact, know what they're doing and have organization in place.
Judging by the tone and challenges expressed in Slowpokes OP, if he's the project leader then its hardly surprising people assume this project is in big trouble.

As someone said earlier - when you find yourself in strife, sometimes you have to hard conversations. Having worked for some experienced project managers, what I heard was a clarion call to ensure sound fundamental practises were in place.

If things arent in trouble, then Slowpoke has created a storm in a tea cup, and team members should be disappointed with their spokesman .... not at those for speaking up and offering advice, which seemed well intended.

Personally, I love FTB and want to see it succeed.
 
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Toerktumlare

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Jul 29, 2019
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Just made an account just to say this.

Thank you for all your wonderful work you guys do to the minecraft community. I dont care a bit about what other people are talking about. About How you "should" do this and that and what you are lacking and such. If everyone in here suddenly are "experts" then they could build the launcher instead.

I wish i could help out with the coding but i only have about 2 years of java experience so im not even close as good as you guys are, and im am very impressed with your work. I will wait until the earth crashes into the sun for the new launcher.

You guys release it when it's ready! I'll still be here waiting, i promise!
 

Mwhahahaha28

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Jul 29, 2019
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Thanks Slowpoke for the update, its been a while since you posted anything and was getting worried haha. Just a request for the people developing the launcher - instead of posting when players repetitively ask same/similar questions then doing one big answer; can you post rough weekly updates in a forum diary or something saying stuff like whats been finished, whats todo, whats causing problems or holding you up until <event> occurs (and so forth)? would probably slow down the "whens the launcher out" bandwagoners haha.

I know its a big task the FTB team has undertaken and everyone are volunteers; but don't rush the launcher for demands, I'd rather stick to my 1.5.2 dire pack until you guys are satisfied with your work :)

Could you not do a beta 1.6.x map on the current launcher like you did with "152wgt/152ngt" before the 3 current main packs came out? or does the 1.6+ mods require code from the new launcher to be able to run?

As Torktumlare said too, I'm also a high level programmer as well but nothing on the level you guys are working at so its a shame I can't help out in any way

keep up the good work everyone on the FTB team!
 

Tristam Izumi

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Jul 29, 2019
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Could you not do a beta 1.6.x map on the current launcher like you did with "152wgt/152ngt" before the 3 current main packs came out? or does the 1.6+ mods require code from the new launcher to be able to run?
Mojang actually changed the way that Minecraft launched in 1.6, hence the initial need for a new launcher. It's also why MultiMC4 can't handle 1.6/1.7, and why they're making MMC5.
 

scrazen

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Jul 29, 2019
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Thanks for the update. It is always good to hear what's going on even if the answer is not what we might want to hear. Good luck with making an awesome Minecraft launcher.
 

Blue

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Jul 29, 2019
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i hope all this hard work will transfer easy also over to 1.7


also sounds like you guys are putting alot of time to make this right at launch so everything is stable.....maybe the whitehouse should of hired you guys to make healthcare.gov XD
 
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