Why no new launcher.

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Aphenro

Active Member
Nov 8, 2012
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Why do projects fail - 101.

- Unclear timeframes.
and saying you dont have any brings us to
- Lack of proper planning
- Lack of delivery milestones.

If you dont have estimates, I asume you aren't tracking to any sort of plan. If you know what needs to be done, you can establish an estimate, even if its a rough order of magnitude.

As the business owner or project manager, you need to ensure a clear vision statement is in place, which outlines the broad objectives for your team, with clear milestones which can be fleshed out, measured and tracked through planning and implementation, during technical reviews and through every stage of delivery.

I'm just trying to help. You're in a risk mitigation phase without a rudder or sextant and all that comes to mind is the old PM adage: Fail to plan - plan to fail.

As someone that has managed mulit-million dollar projects for the last 20+ years it also sounds like you're suffering from major scope creep/uncertainty and as a result you're trying to do everything and getting nowhere (that may be a little harsh but it's time to face facts).
My suggestions would be to:
a) put down on paper the features you want to incorporate
b) get everyone (or at least the key people) to agree on a priority ranking for each feature
c) chunk the project into phases based on feature priority
d) set a target to complete the first phase - don't publish the date externally
e) establish regular follow-up sessions to track progress

When moral is low you need to get some successes to re-energize your team. Don't try for a homerun. Get a few singles and avoid making mistakes that will further demoralize the team.

And last but not least; thank you, thank you, thank you for the effort you've put into FTB so far. I've spent way too much of my free time playing.
 

miralize

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
8
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Why do projects fail - 101.

- Unclear timeframes.
and saying you dont have any brings us to
- Lack of proper planning
- Lack of delivery milestones.

If you dont have estimates, I asume you aren't tracking to any sort of plan. If you know what needs to be done, you can establish an estimate, even if its a rough order of magnitude.

As the business owner or project manager, you need to ensure a clear vision statement is in place, which outlines the broad objectives for your team, with clear milestones which can be fleshed out, measured and tracked through planning and implementation, during technical reviews and through every stage of delivery.

I'm just trying to help. You're in a risk mitigation phase without a rudder or sextant and all that comes to mind is the old PM adage: Fail to plan - plan to fail.

In theory you are correct but this is a volunteer project. Timeframes, estimates & milestones should definitely be in place, but theres no need to publicise them. People working on it need to be able to have jobs/lives outside of FTB too.
 

groundhog

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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In theory you are correct but this is a volunteer project. Timeframes, estimates & milestones should definitely be in place, but theres no need to publicise them. People working on it need to be able to have jobs/lives outside of FTB too.

I said nothing about making them public or how much effort people could put into the project - the resource allocation and actual effort is tracked alongside progress to goals.

Consider Aphenro's points regarding prioritizing and target setting. We all want this investment to pay off - especially for those folk who have freely given so much of their time.
 

mike546378

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Thank you slow and the whole ftb team for all the effort every single one of you are putting into this project. while it may be challenging, will be well worth the wate wits done :) Better to get it right first time than rush just because people want it. Thanks again for the hard work, keep it up.
Post wasn't too doom and gloom btw, just informative ;)
 

Jammie

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Jul 29, 2019
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As someone that has managed mulit-million dollar projects for the last 20+ years it also sounds like you're suffering from major scope creep/uncertainty and as a result you're trying to do everything and getting nowhere (that may be a little harsh but it's time to face facts).
My suggestions would be to:
a) put down on paper the features you want to incorporate
b) get everyone (or at least the key people) to agree on a priority ranking for each feature
c) chunk the project into phases based on feature priority
d) set a target to complete the first phase - don't publish the date externally
e) establish regular follow-up sessions to track progress

When moral is low you need to get some successes to re-energize your team. Don't try for a homerun. Get a few singles and avoid making mistakes that will further demoralize the team.

And last but not least; thank you, thank you, thank you for the effort you've put into FTB so far. I've spent way too much of my free time playing.

Thank-you for putting what I was trying to say into to much better terms. I completely agree with you.

c) chunk the project into phases based on feature priority

I think this is the main one. The FTB team simply tried to do too much all at once.
 

DREVL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2013
1,251
380
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I could post something externalizing my displeasure in a way that makes me sound like I know what talking about and my advise to be taken seriously like a few in this thread, but I don't. This isn't a product of waiting as much as it is a product of hype that we see from the youtubers and their let's plays telling us what 1.6 ftb potentially will be and we have been seeing it for about a month or 2 now. I'm just a ssp guy. There are many people that run servers or play on servers that are seeing it in other ways. I can't tell you how much I want 1.6 that is being held up by the launcher. That being said ftb has built the most dummy user freindly mod experience around. Tekkit is still 1.5 as well and isn't very dynamic. This RR stuff still doesn't work for me and they feel rushed. You guys are the standard and have so far made made my mc experience good and simple. Thank you. Maybe wrap it up and try the whimsical after 1.6 is released? Once again I have no idea what I'm talking about lol.
 

Physicist

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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The last few days I've had a forum tab pinned to my browser and was refreshing at least once per day to get 1.6 right when it posted.

I seem to have misunderstood the state of things.

I play FTB because of well-constructed modpacks and one click client-to-server version synching. It seems like those core functions are still well handled and the first is possibly nearing the concluding phases for 1.6. I like the new launcher ideas and optimizations, but the old launcher handles both of the core functions. Knowing full well that the team will deliver on all fronts when the last line of code is written, I vote for chunking the projects based on feature priority.
 

CraveMode

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
12
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I appreciate everything that is and will be done by the team and all of their hard work, I am not sure how the delivery system for 1.6 will exactly be handled and this may have been brought up before... but can the old way of "one zip" to deliver a modpack work for now on the official modpacks and introduce the new "solder" like system with 3rd party pack system come later on? I would have atleast used the old/current delivery method as a fallback method.
 

Tybot

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
28
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Also agree that this has all the classic signs of feature creep and there's a lack of project management. Which is easy to run into when you haven't run a big project before, especially with volunteers. And I don't want to come off as being unappreciative of that fact. But if you want to run FTB more professionally, that means project management, and realistic goal setting. Defining a clear definition of what needs to happen at initial launch and what needs to be in phase 2.

I'd go on and suggest more ways to improve there, but really find a veteran project manager for the team and make him your friend. Someone who's not afraid to say no when it needs to be said.
 

Hambeau

Over-Achiever
Jul 24, 2013
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Why do projects fail - 101.

- Unclear timeframes.
and saying you dont have any brings us to
- Lack of proper planning
- Lack of delivery milestones.

If you dont have estimates, I asume you aren't tracking to any sort of plan. If you know what needs to be done, you can establish an estimate, even if its a rough order of magnitude.

As the business owner or project manager, you need to ensure a clear vision statement is in place, which outlines the broad objectives for your team, with clear milestones which can be fleshed out, measured and tracked through planning and implementation, during technical reviews and through every stage of delivery.

I'm just trying to help. You're in a risk mitigation phase without a rudder or sextant and all that comes to mind is the old PM adage: Fail to plan - plan to fail.

Hello, McFly!

Unpaid Volunteer workforces don't respond well to Project Management that interferes with normal PAID work or personal lives.
 

Hambeau

Over-Achiever
Jul 24, 2013
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for anyone interested, slow was streaming yesterday and has talked about what's been talked about in this topic.
for those interested, here's the link to a video of that stream http://www.twitch.tv/slowpoke101/b/484665218
you can also see slow playing the ********* pack

If this includes the entire live cast there's also a good insightful discussion with Jaded about the hassles of putting together packs and trying to iron out the inconsistencies therein.
 

Yusunoha

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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If this includes the entire live cast there's also a good insightful discussion with Jaded about the hassles of putting together packs and trying to iron out the inconsistencies therein.

it's the minecraft stream he did yesterday, he also streamed a bit of kerbal space program yesterday which also can be found in the archives
 

rithrin

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
9
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So new launcher comes out half life 3 value time release date. Sounds like perfect timing. I think we'd all prefer more time spent on something that "works" rather than some of these half ass'ed rush jobs even the big company are dishing out lately. So personally I have no issue with waiting.
And to all the lovely people quoting business plans.. I give you 1 word "Volunteer". Now begone with you.
 
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Darth Timmanis

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Jul 29, 2019
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Thanks so much for the update. This was very clear and transparent. Thanks for not sugar coating things and thanks for everything.

I really want you guys to know how much I appreciate the care you are taking with this. Bugs may always pop up later, but you guys taking your time to make it right is one reason FTB is so good. Thanks for all the hard work, and thanks for doing this for free. You guys are all amazing! Thanks thanks thanks!
 

eashonk

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Well, I'm going to be completely honest with you slowpoke, and everyone else on here. This S*it is free. It is awesome what you do, I can't do it, and I love playing it. When I found it, I had only played tekkit a little, and hexxit came out, and I was blown away, but it was buggy and crashed all the time, and took forever to even launch the launcher, let alone the pack. Plus, I was depending on a friend of mine to admin the server, so when things went bad, they stayed bad for a while.

Then, I found Direwolf20's let's plays and started watching the Mindcrack FTB vids. I found the launcher and installed it, and it was awesome. Over 100 mods and it loaded in less than 5 mins!! Oh yeah, I don't know which was first, Ampz or Voltz, but at least Ampz halfway worked half the time, until it didn't, then, well it didn't ever again.....but I digress.

So, on to the truth. This is amateur hour. DW20, bless his heart, said like 20 months ago "the new launcher should be out very soon". Now maybe he didn't have permission to say that, maybe he was under the impression that what he was saying was true, but still, he said it. Obviously it has become apparent that this is not the case, but yet, there has been no redaction or explanation until now from either him or the FTB team. But, it is free, so I'm not complaining, just saying, as I heard you, Slowpoke, say to Soryen (sp?) "When you commit to a project...." you get the point.

Now, to speak to some of the comments above, I totally agree with the need for structure, but I also see the difficulty of such things when you're dealing with donated time. This is why, you need to focus on important things, and small steps, toss the junk. You want some proof that this hasn't sunk in with you yet Slow? You mentioned that you wanted to ad the ability for people to customize the skin. Really, dude, c'mon. Who care's what your launcher looks like. Look at Mojang's launcher for Christ's sake, focus on making the thing work!! If someone wants to work on that, great, let them, but make it clear that you don't want them doing so while you are trying to get the thing out to people, because any time you spend dealing with that, is time taken away from the important task people really care about, and that's getting the thing out the door!!!

Honestly though, I am kind of glad you piddled around and lost focus, because I lost interest in the 1.5.2 mods when I started seeing the stuff Dire was doing, so I learned how to make my own private packs with first the vanilla launcher, and now ATLauncher (who's functionality you seem to be describing in your own plans) Because they have Thermal Expansion 3 now. When I saw that, I was like, "that's it, it's time to move on." I now have my own server, and have crashed and broken the thing and lost and had to start over several worlds, but at least now i am not dependent on FTB, ATL, Technic, or my buddy to get around to fixing things, I am learning to do it on my own, which is what I suggest everyone else do as well, no offense, but it's a shark eat shark world, and the slowpokes get left behind.
 

Golrith

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Trusted User
Nov 11, 2012
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Your ideas for mod packs would be very welcome. The hoops that have to be jumped through to make a public pack are crazy. I'm in the process of updating my Omega Dawn pack to 1.6.4 (about 95% there) and would love to make it public (as it's currently on a small whitelisted server, available to anyone who contacts me), but the sheer thought of chasing down permissions is depressing, and surely mod authors must get fed up with PMs/Posts asking for permission. Luckily though many more modders are going down the Open mod route then before, although there are still some stubbon modders out there.

Like everyone else, we are here to enjoy this game, not to get bogged down in the paperwork, which is already a bit overwhelming for single people/small teams. Modders and Players are all here together to enjoy this game called "Minecraft", so surely it's in the best interest of everyone to make things as smooth as possible, and not get caught up in excessive red tape.


The only thing to be careful with is if you can get a "blanket" permission system for mod packs hosted under the FTB launcher, is controlling those packs in someway. Otherwise you'll end up with a mess of 100 mod packs that have minor differences, or even no differences, but different names.
 

luacs1998

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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I could post something externalizing my displeasure in a way that makes me sound like I know what talking about and my advise to be taken seriously like a few in this thread, but I don't. This isn't a product of waiting as much as it is a product of hype that we see from the youtubers and their let's plays telling us what 1.6 ftb potentially will be and we have been seeing it for about a month or 2 now. I'm just a ssp guy. There are many people that run servers or play on servers that are seeing it in other ways. I can't tell you how much I want 1.6 that is being held up by the launcher. That being said ftb has built the most dummy user freindly mod experience around. Tekkit is still 1.5 as well and isn't very dynamic. This RR stuff still doesn't work for me and they feel rushed. You guys are the standard and have so far made made my mc experience good and simple. Thank you. Maybe wrap it up and try the whimsical after 1.6 is released? Once again I have no idea what I'm talking about lol.

1.6 means a lot of changes to the way minecraft is started, which is why mojang had to release a new launcher. FTB can't push out a 1.6 pack without having a 1.6 compatible launcher.
 

dirtybeatfreak

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Am personally happy to wait, I can make my own packs until then. I still appreciate all that FTB has done for MC in general and still fly the FTB flag!

My only gripe is that I do think the launcher skin thing is a waste of time for now. When the launcher is up and running then yea, but people want the launcher for the game/mod/pack functionality, not to sit and look how pretty it is :)

TL:DR: Take your time to get it right, but get rid of the pointless features for now :)
 
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