Why don't people like IC2 anymore?

[Golrith]

On the TC4 front though, I'm bored with the research. I could see when it was first shown that it would be a tedius timesink, and experiencing it hasn't changed my mind. I don't mind a puzzle to identify the aspects needed, but to shuffle runes around to connect the dots is a level too far.


Also, remember both IC2 and TE3 have alternate recipes for more expensive pulverizers. Most things can be resolved to your tastes by looking in configs.

 

[Dorque]

Honest question though, why do people get upset over 'making machines to make other machines to make other machines' with IC2, but this procedure is not considered bad? To make one block, you need other blocks. People say 'you need a hammer and snips to make wire and it sucks' but then here someone could say 'you need an induction smelter just to make this special glass, then you have to make this frame, then another whole machine just to fill that frame with ender pearls, instead of just crafting 4 ender pearls with a frame to get a filled one. And you have to melt the pearls with this third machine.

The fundamental difference there is, the induction smelter, magma crucible and liquid transposer are all useful in their own right. The plate bender.... is used for bending plates. It exists exclusively as an intermediate step, which makes it utterly unnecessary except to extend the process, from a design perspective. And IC2 is starting to fill up with those.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[Loufmier]

Maybe they didnt do it the right way, but I kind of feel that ore doubling should require an investment.

does trip to nether and 450 lpais and other stuff sound right?
you can check my sig where cost comes from. and yes, i advertise my setup

 

[DREVL]

Makes me wonder becuase I haven't tried it... the bender has several settings. Will the AE interact with it appropriately? Will the interaction be able to switch the bender from plates to cutting? I guess I could do the same thing with it autocrafting with hammers and cutters :?

 

[Loufmier]

Makes me wonder becuase I haven't tried it... the bender has several settings. Will the AE interact with it appropriately? Will the interaction be able to switch the bender from plates to cutting? I guess I could do the same thing with it autocrafting with hammers and cutters :?

the only thing AE can do with machinery is to supply it with ingredients. so you'll need at least to bender if you dont want to use hammers and cutters.

 

[DREVL]

the only thing AE can do with machinery is to supply it with ingredients. so you'll need at least to bender if you dont want to use hammers and cutters.

pffff. Guess that's why people don't like IC2 anymore....

 

[Loufmier]

pffff. Guess that's why people don't like IC2 anymore....

i dont think that's the reason. it's the same crap with (t)rolling machine, carpenter and that other forestry machine, when it comes to integrating them into AE network

 

[Jadedcat]

Hmm I have to get ic2 exp installed so I can see this. Honestly though im interested in their changes. I always viewed ore doubling as equivalent to a tesseract. its a huge change to the game environment once you geet it set up. Maybe they didnt do it the right way, but I kind of feel that ore doubling should require an investment. Like a tesseract no one really has to set up ore doubling. Like wiht your pack, assume for a second that TE3 wasnt installed but IC2 and gregtech were. "Well you can survive, and its hard. You can go the magic route or the tech route. If you want increased resources and big bonuses like doubling your ore output, youre going to have to invest some time, just like how Thaumcraft makes you invest time to get higher power items that make things easy.

ore doubling is assumed to be a tier one technology jsut because IC2 was one of the earliest mods and it made macerators cheap. IMO ore doubling should require an investment, just like golems (automation to increase resources and save you time) require not only resources to make, but an investment in time to even be able to make them.

Still, not saying IC2 did it in a good way, but if they were trying to make ore doubling a mid game idea, id agree with that. How to implement that change though is tricky. Honeslty though I dont know why people will spend hours on thaumcraft research and be happy, but then hours crafting is considered tedious. In Ultimate I wanted a brain in a jar and i was forced toresearch for hours and hours just to get the one item i wanted from that mod. To me it seems many mods have lots of tedium built into them. Im NOT saying IC2 is good, i guess its just curious to me why TC research is considered ok, but IC2 'research' is not.

Ore doubling is not tier one in MF2

 

[zorn]

Ore doubling is not tier one in MF2

yes im playing it now, I should have really tried the pack before trying to adjust it. Im getting it now (why can't I punch a tree? hehe) , and I love it so far. This is the pack ive been looking for. Although im about to die flailing my hands uselessly at some gravel trying to find out how to get flint. lol

edit: aaaaaand I died! Cant just dig the dirt to hide, angry zombie and his shorty companion and i died for the first time in months of playing. LOVE IT.

 

[Jadedcat]

yes im playing it now, I should have really tried the pack before trying to adjust it. Im getting it now (why can't I punch a tree? hehe) , and I love it so far. This is the pack ive been looking for. Although im about to die flailing my hands uselessly at some gravel trying to find out how to get flint. lol

edit: aaaaaand I died! Cant just dig the dirt to hide, angry zombie and his shorty companion and i died for the first time in months of playing. LOVE IT.

you can make one tool out of wood... the shovel it will save your life.. ok actually its an ineffective weapon, but you can get gravel with it and craft ze gravel into ze flint so you have a knife .. which is still an ineffective weapon but better than dirt.

 

[YX33A]

~Im NOT saying IC2 is good, i guess its just curious to me why TC research is considered ok, but IC2 'research' is not.

TC Research is annoying as all hell, yes, but it's only really annoying when you don't know/remember what need what. And boy, is that sort of thing well documented on these forums!

Plus, TC4 research doesn't consume anything(normally). There is also the fact that since TC2 there has been research aspects to TC, so it's more accepted. IC2 on the other hand, is an old mod. Very old. Even if there were some sprite changes and nothing more, people would bitch like it was the end of the world. And the fact that it's getting "harder"? Oh lord, it's the end of days!

It is getting tedious, though. But one could say the same sort of thing about RC in it's boiler changes. Forestry in the Multifarm update. Dartcraft around when 1.6 dropped(magic meter?!). Well, okay, I'd say that about RC and Forestry. The Multifarm update was very new to everyone, and not everyone liked it. RC Boilers have been being nerfed pretty much since their inception.

Does it require extra steps to get pretty much anything done in IC2-EX? Yeah, I guess so. Does it bug me? I played with GT before the EX branch really started, so no, not really. There are like a thousand new tiny parts I need to make it make pretty much anything I need, occasionally even for those tiny parts, I need tiny parts.

The E-Net changes aren't very welcoming, no. But that's about the limit of what bugs me in IC2-EX. Because most of the changes, I already was used to via GT.

 

[Cronos988]

Hmm I have to get ic2 exp installed so I can see this. Honestly though im interested in their changes. I always viewed ore doubling as equivalent to a tesseract. its a huge change to the game environment once you geet it set up. Maybe they didnt do it the right way, but I kind of feel that ore doubling should require an investment. Like a tesseract no one really has to set up ore doubling. Like wiht your pack, assume for a second that TE3 wasnt installed but IC2 and gregtech were. "Well you can survive, and its hard. You can go the magic route or the tech route. If you want increased resources and big bonuses like doubling your ore output, youre going to have to invest some time, just like how Thaumcraft makes you invest time to get higher power items that make things easy.

ore doubling is assumed to be a tier one technology jsut because IC2 was one of the earliest mods and it made macerators cheap. IMO ore doubling should require an investment, just like golems (automation to increase resources and save you time) require not only resources to make, but an investment in time to even be able to make them.

Still, not saying IC2 did it in a good way, but if they were trying to make ore doubling a mid game idea, id agree with that. How to implement that change though is tricky. Honeslty though I dont know why people will spend hours on thaumcraft research and be happy, but then hours crafting is considered tedious. In Ultimate I wanted a brain in a jar and i was forced toresearch for hours and hours just to get the one item i wanted from that mod. To me it seems many mods have lots of tedium built into them. Im NOT saying IC2 is good, i guess its just curious to me why TC research is considered ok, but IC2 'research' is not.

The Problem with making any resource-multiplication method late game is that it prompts you to hold on to your resources until you have acquired the method. That means you are encouraged to focus everything you do on getting to that method. I would say this is an undesirable effect in a sandbox environment. The game should not punish you for using your resources for things other than progressing in a tech tree.

There should be no significant delay between acquiring a resource and being able to effectively process said resource. Magic Farm does it the right way: Doubling ore is not hard, it's getting ore that takes time.

 

[Loufmier]

The game should not punish you for using your resources for things other than progressing in a tech tree.

please tell me in what way player is punished by not using ore doubling ASAP?

 

[Mevansuto]

please tell me in what way player is punished by not using ore doubling ASAP?

The feeling of missing out on something. And having to do more mining, which I enjoy, others don't.

 

[SynfulChaot]

please tell me in what way player is punished by not using ore doubling ASAP?

Because of the pervasive and early-game nature of ore doubling, nearly all mods have balanced around ore doubling existing. I, personally, make doubling a priority one task. While I don't mind mining, I'm not a fan of spending twice as much time to do so. That's just unnecessary grind.

 

[TheSirusKing]

@AboveAboveAbove Exactly. I find it rather odd how people think that ore doubling is a NESSESARY part of the modded game nowadays. People seem to forget that it is BUFF. But hey, its not like there isn't a fuckton of iron ore underground anyway

-snip-The plate bender.... is used for bending plates.-snip-

Oh yes, the *Metal Former, all its good for is bending plates... and cutting wires... and making fluid cells, fuel rod cells, iron fencing and various other recipes
Hey, even the canning machines have their uses. One is a solid canner for, not only uranium, but food as well (Which is actually pretty damn useful in things like UHC since it heals you as well as feeds you), the other is a liquid transposer, although the other one is kind of useless (unless you use the fuel using jetpack or the CF foam sprayer an awful lot, which i tend to do xD).

@Jaded I wonder how evil you would still be considered if MY modpack was public >.>

(Hang on, can you not qoute multiple people on this forum? D: )

 

[Jadedcat]

@Jaded I wonder how evil you would still be considered if MY modpack was public >.>

Wouldn't matter. I'm not considered evil because of the modpack. I'm considered evil because I am blunt, tactless opinionated, snarky and feel that diplomacy is a socially acceptable form of deception that is deplorable reprehensible and a waste of my time. Also because according to twitter "I am stupid and have no experience in minecraft". I am occasionally considered evil because I apply forum rules to everyone regardless of my personal opinion of them. My propensity for trolling may also have something to do with it.

MF2 is the way I like to play. Its balanced the way I like its not about being evil . My cackling at death counts may be evil though.

 

[Loufmier]

The feeling of missing out on something. And having to do more mining, which I enjoy, others don't.

yeah, that feeling is the only thing you get for not using ore doubling ASAP, but it's NOT a punishment.

 

[TheSirusKing]

I'm considered evil because I am blunt, tactless opinionated, snarky and feel that diplomacy is a socially acceptable form of deception that is deplorable reprehensible and a waste of my time. I am occasionally considered evil because I apply forum rules to everyone regardless of my personal opinion of them. My propensity for trolling may also have something to do with it.

MF2 is the way I like to play. Its balanced the way I like its not about being evil . My cackling at death counts may be evil though.

But... those are all good traits o.o

Also, Surely making the game hard for people counts as trolling?

 

[casilleroatr]

(Hang on, can you not qoute multiple people on this forum? D: )

Yes you can. I hope SynfulChaot won't mind her post being used as an example (The reply button just copies a tag into your standard text box and you can do it over and over again).

Because of the pervasive and early-game nature of ore doubling, nearly all mods have balanced around ore doubling existing. I, personally, make doubling a priority one task. While I don't mind mining, I'm not a fan of spending twice as much time to do so. That's just unnecessary grind.

There is one thing about the new IC2 that I do like which no one seems to have touched upon. The IC2 auto eject module is really interesting and as far as I know, unique in implementation. It is encroaching on convenient .

My personal playstyle involves making stuff that looks nice in single player using a weird creative mode/survival mode combo. (The ratio of creative to survival is decided on a whim). As a result, balance as it is usually discussed on these forums is largely irrelevant for me. I tend to prefer some of the alternatives to IC2, especially if I am building in survival (which is most of the time, I build my house or castle in creative and all machines and stuff get done in survival). However, I think I am going to use on this playthrough one of IC2s core features to my advantage. Long crafting chains necessitate a large assembly room if you are automating it (without AE). I think that might be a fun build and it is exactly the sort of thing I like to make look nice. I will probably scrap the surplus gravisuits or HV solar arrays though if I don't need them (I like to imagine I am selling them to a foreign kingdom or something).