What Would Make MFR Balanced?

[SatanicSanta]

Tedium ≠ Difficulty.

If you want difficult mods look at Ars Magica and Arcane Scrolls. They provide some really powerful tools, but at a cost. Both of these are XP, Ars uses its own XP system, requiring you to go out and use the spells. Though, the balance is if you use a spell too much the experience increase drops drastically, requiring you to make more spells. In Arcane Scrolls you have to get xp to learn the spells, which makes you go out and fight stuff/mine. Mods like GT and the things you are looking for are just going to take some of the fun out of this, and replace it with tedium. This is not the way to go if you want difficulty. Overall, if you run a server, and you make something way too tedious, people will choose a different route (in FTB for treefarms there are the options of turtles, golems, steves carts, etc.)

 

[TheAwesomater]

I know a lot of you people out there find MFR OP, and I can agree with that. However, I love the items MFR adds so I still include it. I decided a thread about it might come to a answer to this question: What do you guys think it would take in terms of power creation and consumption to make it balanced?

Just set yourself in-game rules. For example, this world I promised to use forestry rather than MFR. Lengthens your gameplay, makes your gaming more interesting and in the end you still get to the stage of having ridiculous power, it just comes from ethanol rather than charcoal.

 

[Jadedcat]

But this thread has gone completely off the rail. I was just asking for people to talk about what would be "balanced" power settings for me to do! I might be coming across wrong. I'm simply discussing possible opportunities to make the mod balanced for people who find it OP. I'm not demanding anything, I realize Skyboy has no obligation to make a mod, or agree with my opinion. I am grateful for the mod, I simply feel that it's making all other things just not worth it.

Any machine you feel should cost more energy go into config/powercrystals/minefactoryreloaded/common.cfg and search for the machine name

Look for a line like this : I:AutoAnvil.ActivationCostMJ=16 ... that number on the end is what it costs each time the machine idle timer (in the GUI) hits 0 and has something to do

The Harvester is I:Harvester.ActivationCostMJ=24 - so 240 rf per block harvested each activation is 1 block broken. This includes leaves/wood/vines in a tree farm. Those vines make jungle trees more expensive

the balance thing on a tree farm is usually about fuel output - cost of gathering wood.
Using a:
TE dynamo 1 log = 560RF at 80 rf/t
BC Stirling Engine 1 log = 300MJ at 1mj/t
of course charcoal/planks give more in pretty much every mod.

A planter is: I: planter.ActivationCostMJ=16mj or 160rf per sapling/seed planted. Assuming your using a normal size tree and not jungle trees you will get between 5-10 logs per sapling so 160rf/16mj = aprox 10 logs then to harvest those 10 logs with a harvester it will cost you another 240mj/2400 rf. Each leaf block or vine will cost you 240rf/24mj as well average tree has 20 leaves (based on shearing way too many) so 4800rf/480mj for the leaves that get cut along with the logs so now we are at 7360rf/736mj for aprox 10 logs. 10 logs = 3000 mj or 5600 rf when burnt. So if you want to build a lot of stirling engines you can get more Mj out of logs in BC than you can in TE but its going to take a lot of stirling engines to power an MFR farm.

For TE it costs more to harvest the logs than you will get out of just burning them. You'll need to process them into charcoal to get a good burn rate there. And I highly doubt anyone is planning to run an MFR farm at max speed off stirling engines.

I have tested and this math is fairly even across the board no matter what tree farm you use. MFR just does it in 2 blocks. Actually the highest output Tree Farm is a large size Steve Carts 2 tree farm with the top tier cart and top tier Forestry trees. Course that is a lot more work and resource cost. But energy drain wise its about the same.

Basically the MFR farms look really fast... but unlike forestry and steve's carts they do not add a way to multiply your wood/sapling output. The speed of the MFR farm is dependant in part on how much energy you dump into them. Throttle the energy input and they slow down.




I:Harvester.ActivationCostMJ=24 - double or triple that number. This will of course make harvesting any other items like wheat/carrots etc more expensive too.


pick a recipe set

# If true, MFR will register its GregTech-based recipes.
B:EnableGregTechRecipes=false

# If true, MFR will register its Thermal Expansion-based recipes.
B:EnableThermalExpansionRecipes=true

# If true, MFR will register its standard (vanilla-item-only) recipes.
B:EnableVanillaRecipes=false

Most FTB packs by default use TE3 recipes which make the machines require Invar tools, machine frames and transmission coils all well above the expense of the tin and copper needed for a Forestry farm.



Feel they are just too powerful:

B:Harvester.Recipe.Enabled=true - you can just remove them from the game entirely.

 

[Yosomith]

Any machine you feel should cost more energy go into config/powercrystals/minefactoryreloaded/common.cfg and search for the machine name

Look for a line like this : I:AutoAnvil.ActivationCostMJ=16 ... that number on the end is what it costs each time the machine idle timer (in the GUI) hits 0 and has something to do

The Harvester is I:Harvester.ActivationCostMJ=24 - so 240 rf per block harvested each activation is 1 block broken. This includes leaves/wood/vines in a tree farm. Those vines make jungle trees more expensive

the balance thing on a tree farm is usually about fuel output - cost of gathering wood.
Using a:
TE dynamo 1 log = 560RF at 80 rf/t
BC Stirling Engine 1 log = 300MJ at 1mj/t
of course charcoal/planks give more in pretty much every mod.

A planter is: I: planter.ActivationCostMJ=16mj or 160rf per sapling/seed planted. Assuming your using a normal size tree and not jungle trees you will get between 5-10 logs per sapling so 160rf/16mj = aprox 10 logs then to harvest those 10 logs with a harvester it will cost you another 240mj/2400 rf. Each leaf block or vine will cost you 240rf/24mj as well average tree has 20 leaves (based on shearing way too many) so 4800rf/480mj for the leaves that get cut along with the logs so now we are at 7360rf/736mj for aprox 10 logs. 10 logs = 3000 mj or 5600 rf when burnt. So if you want to build a lot of stirling engines you can get more Mj out of logs in BC than you can in TE but its going to take a lot of stirling engines to power an MFR farm.

For TE it costs more to harvest the logs than you will get out of just burning them. You'll need to process them into charcoal to get a good burn rate there. And I highly doubt anyone is planning to run an MFR farm at max speed off stirling engines.

I have tested and this math is fairly even across the board no matter what tree farm you use. MFR just does it in 2 blocks. Actually the highest output Tree Farm is a max size Steve Carts 2 tree farm with the top tier cart and top tier Forestry trees. Course that is a lot more work and resource cost. But energy drain wise its about the same.

Basically the MFR farms look really fast... but unlike forestry and steve's carts they do not add a way to multiply your wood/sapling output. The speed of the MFR farm is dependant in part on how much energy you dump into them. Throttle the energy input and they slow down.




I:Harvester.ActivationCostMJ=24 - double or triple that number. This will of course make harvesting any other items like wheat/carrots etc more expensive too.


pick a recipe set

# If true, MFR will register its GregTech-based recipes.
B:EnableGregTechRecipes=false

# If true, MFR will register its Thermal Expansion-based recipes.
B:EnableThermalExpansionRecipes=true

# If true, MFR will register its standard (vanilla-item-only) recipes.
B:EnableVanillaRecipes=false

Most FTB packs by default use TE3 recipes which make the machines require Invar tools, machine frames and transmission coils all well above the expense of the tin and copper needed for a Forestry farm.



Feel they are just too powerful:

B:Harvester.Recipe.Enabled=true - you can just remove them from the game entirely.

I didn't know Steve's Carts had a max size for a tree farm? I thought you just fed it more tracks and it will just get bigger and bigger.

 

[Jadedcat]

I didn't know Steve's Carts had a max size for a tree farm? I thought you just fed it more tracks and it will just get bigger and bigger.

True enough. I call it max sized based on it arriving at one end just as the trees on that side are grown and based on distance it can travel on one refill of fuel.. That way it ends up back at the refueling location before it runs out and trees don't just sit waiting for the cart to arrive. But technically you are correct there is no limit, and with the auto smelting attachment you don't even need to give it fuel.

 

[Zenthon_127]

True enough. I call it max sized based on it arriving at one end just as the trees on that side are grown and based on distance it can travel on one refill of fuel.. That way it ends up back at the refueling location before it runs out and trees don't just sit waiting for the cart to arrive. But technically you are correct there is no limit, and with the auto smelting attachment you don't even need to give it fuel.

You can also add another cart to allow for theoretically double the size, and more unloading stations to prevent them from being filled up completely. But at that point, you have WAY too much time on your hands lol.

 

[Yosomith]

You can also add another cart to allow for theoretically double the size, and more unloading stations to prevent them from being filled up completely. But at that point, you have WAY too much time on your hands lol.

This is entirely the reason I prefer Steve's Carts, plus I like watching all the carts going around the tracks

 

[Zenthon_127]

This is entirely the reason I prefer Steve's Carts, plus I like watching all the carts going around the tracks

As much as I laugh at SC for how hilariously stupid the crafting recipes are and how insanely long it takes to make a decent cart, I will admit it's pretty cool to see one in action.

 

[SatanicSanta]

As much as I laugh at SC for how hilariously stupid the crafting recipes are and how insanely long it takes to make a decent cart, I will admit it's pretty cool to see one in action.

I feel the exact same for any cart or golem system. And even better with cart systems... launch tracks. Seeing a chest cart with all of your items in it launch from your ore processor to your sorting system is pretty damn awesome, and not too expensive either.

 

[Yosomith]

I feel the exact same for any cart or golem system. And even better with cart systems... launch tracks. Seeing a chest cart with all of your items in it launch from your ore processor to your sorting system is pretty damn awesome, and not too expensive either.

I was thinking of using a Translocator, Item Cannon, Vacuum Hopper setup for a sorting system once.

 

[Golrith]

As much as I laugh at SC for how hilariously stupid the crafting recipes are and how insanely long it takes to make a decent cart, I will admit it's pretty cool to see one in action.

They try to follow "realistic" crafting steps (just look at the "simple" chests, with the various panels and the lock), but since the rest of Minecraft and mods don't work that way, those recipes are tedius and out of place.