Ultimate Pack

[DoctorOr]

And I note you have no response to his config files being non-trivial to change. I'll consider my point delivered.

I have a response!

GregTech config files are trivial to change. I like vim, but notepad works.[DOUBLEPOST=1362575348][/DOUBLEPOST]

Complete nonsense.

Insofar as distribution is concerned, you have no license to distribute anything you don't have a copyright on unless you are expressly granted such a license. Since the Berne convention, basically _everything_ has a copyright on it, automatically.

--- Actually I'm going to edit this now that I've re-read the original post by Machinemuse.

An end user absolutely has the right to edit config files. Or bytecode files. Or random poetry included in the mod zip.

What they don't have is a right to redistribute, which includes the config file.

 

[Boomaholic]

Gunna ask here instead of making a new "ultimate pack" thread. Server Reboot with my friends, we noticed the new waypoints for Rei's minimap allows for teleporting. I tried to find a config to turn this off but I remembered that Rei's is a client mod and won't have configs server side. I want to disable/block

this feature incase I choose to open it up to the public.

 

[MachineMuse]

Complete nonsense.

Definitely nonsense, but true nonetheless. There are a lot of legal technicalities that people usually don't get called on because it's pointless and a waste of time.

 

[VANtheSven]

Gunna ask here instead of making a new "ultimate pack" thread. Server Reboot with my friends, we noticed the new waypoints for Rei's minimap allows for teleporting. I tried to find a config to turn this off but I remembered that Rei's is a client mod and won't have configs server side. I want to disable/block

this feature incase I choose to open it up to the public.

It's not Rei's minimap, it's Voxelmap . You are right that the minimap indeed is client-sided. However, I believe those teleports only work if you are OP on the server.

 

[vasouv]

Unless they are offering the configs under a permissive license, they would fall in the 'unlicensed' area which means you have no right to do anything with them (not even open them in an editor)

So why don't the authors make in-game GUIs for us to edit the config and not open it with an editor? Or why not hardcode the config into the mod's code itself so we can't change ANYTHING at all? I'm sorry but I don't buy that, by your saying most of us are outlaws for editing the configs.

I don't know man, I don't see how it would hurt anyone if config versions were available. Just because it's not through the launcher? It's essentially the same thing.

 

[MFINN23]

Sorry for my contribution to making this another gregtech debate thread lol, it's just frustrating...

I want to use gregtech but not so much that I'm going to cancel all of his millions of changes to other mods in the config every time.

 

[Fuzzlewhumper]

Just as a note, Magical Crops mod is not compatible with Ultimate. In specific, it interferes with those solar panels used to charge bluetricity batteries.

 

[DoctorOr]

Just as a note, Magical Crops mod is not compatible with Ultimate. In specific, it interferes with those solar panels used to charge bluetricity batteries.

You mean there is an item id conflict that can be easily fixed with a config change.

 

[MachineMuse]

So why don't the authors make in-game GUIs for us to edit the config and not open it with an editor? Or why not hardcode the config into the mod's code itself so we can't change ANYTHING at all? I'm sorry but I don't buy that, by your saying most of us are outlaws for editing the configs.

I don't know man, I don't see how it would hurt anyone if config versions were available. Just because it's not through the launcher? It's essentially the same thing.

Configs distributed via launcher would fall under the same convention. You're right, it wouldn't hurt anyone. That's kind of my point: what is legally enforceable and what is reasonable are two very, very different things.

 

[Hydra]

An end user absolutely has the right to edit config files. Or bytecode files. Or random poetry included in the mod zip.

What they don't have is a right to redistribute, which includes the config file.

Unless someone wants to go to court over this (and no one will) this whole discussion is completely ridiculous. It's debatable if you even have copyright to a Minecraft mod (that's a grey area), then there's the point that the mods are FREE software and you're completely allowed to mirror that, and THEN there is the point whether or not a config file is considered something that you can even have copyright on. So unless you can prove with jurisprudence that this is the case (and don't bring up the Berne convention, it's completely irrelevant what they wrote up in 1886 since it predates modern copyright laws which have complete sections on software) this whole discussion is completely pointless.[DOUBLEPOST=1362585600][/DOUBLEPOST]

So why don't the authors make in-game GUIs for us to edit the config and not open it with an editor? Or why not hardcode the config into the mod's code itself so we can't change ANYTHING at all? I'm sorry but I don't buy that, by your saying most of us are outlaws for editing the configs.

And that's complete nonsense.

 

[MachineMuse]

Unless someone wants to go to court over this (and no one will) this whole discussion is completely ridiculous.

The question is whether it's against permissions or not. The legal answer is yes. Whether or not people care is up to them - some people want to respect permissions even if there's 0 chance anyone will take them to court over not doing it. You've already made it clear how you feel about the issue.

 

[DoctorOr]

Unless someone wants to go to court over this (and no one will) this whole discussion is completely ridiculous.

People have. Not necessarily for minecraft mods, but definitely for infringement, even infringement of a non commercial product. And don't pay attention to those claims (The pack plus, or whatever they're called) that something has to be commercial to matter.

The thing to remember though is that copyright is entirely about distribution. If somebody is claiming something that isn't directly distribution, they're not talking about copyright law. For example, license use agreements are _not_ copyright law. They're also much murkier on their actual enforcement value.

It's debatable if you even have copyright to a Minecraft mod (that's a grey area)

Oh it is absolutely not a grey area. Berne convention is worldwide (or at least, those countries that didn't sign have problems with electricity) and applies an automatic copyright to all works. Including this very post.

then there's the point that the mods are FREE software and you're completely allowed to mirror that

You are absolutely not allowed to re-distribute something just because the author distributes it for free. In the US, in addition to the monetary loss (which granted, would be zero), there is a $200 to $150,000 potential penalty, _per_infraction_. In this context, an infraction would be per download. And before even that, a judge is going to issue an injunction, and violation of that injunction can absolutely result in jailtime.

Also, again in the US, the legal fees of copyright cases for both parties are paid for by the infractor if they lose, but the author only pays their own fees if they lose. There is thus very little pressure to _not_ file.

THEN there is the point whether or not a config file is considered something that you can even have copyright on.

They can. They do. It's automatic.

So unless you can prove with jurisprudence that this is the case (and don't bring up the Berne convention, it's completely irrelevant what they wrote up in 1886 since it predates modern copyright laws which have complete sections on software) this whole discussion is completely pointless.

I should have read this part first. You are too far out in fantasy land to even hold this conversation with. The Berne convention is in full force and is affecting your every day life... everyday.

 

[Hydra]

The question is whether it's against permissions or not. The legal answer is yes.

Oh for god's sake! The question about the legalities is a very complex one and you probably would need a judge and a trial case to figure out of redistributing a config is legal or not. How many people do you think got sued for that?

It would help if people would stop commenting on stuff they don't understand at all. If you think the answer the this question is found on the wiki page of the Berne convention you're obviously not up to speed on how complex copyrights and licenses are.[DOUBLEPOST=1362586908][/DOUBLEPOST]

I should have read this part first. You are too far out in fantasy land to even hold this conversation with. The Berne convention is in full force and is affecting your every day life... everyday.

From now on I'm not even going to respond to "wiki experts" who quote conventions signed up even before computers existed. Software has loads of exceptions when it comes to copyright which are covered by local laws.

Toodles!

 

[Carrington]

The question is whether it's against permissions or not. The legal answer is yes. Whether or not people care is up to them - some people want to respect permissions even if there's 0 chance anyone will take them to court over not doing it. You've already made it clear how you feel about the issue.

Not to be blunt but you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[slay_mithos]

Legality again?

Anyway, let's not go in that completely infertile talk again please, it just invites flaming from people that don't quite know what they are talking about, myself included.
Reading a law text won't give you a full view of what is possible and what is not, there are exceptions and amendments all over the place, it differs from one country to an other...
It's not for show that the people working with the law had to study for years.

 

[Guswut]

Not to be blunt but you have no idea what you're talking about.

You know, instead of saying "Not to be blunt but", why not just say "To be blunt", because that is what you meant. And we need more people to be blunt nowadays, as too many people try and hide and protect things that otherwise would be stressed. Good show.

 

[vasouv]

And that's complete nonsense.

Yes, I know. All I meant was that to me, his statement meant that even us tweaking our configs is illegal. It makes much more sense to me to send a guy over to a configs section, so they can download the config they want, than have them asking over and over again why something doesn't work, or which is the "easy" config for gregtech.

If a friend of mine asks me to install the mods I use on his Minecraft, I'll download the individual mods from the authors' pages on his PC, but I'll give him my own configs rather than telling him "change that line and that line in the forestry config, now go to thermal expansion and change that line and that line"...

Anyway, what I suggested to my head seemed like an easy way to bypass the fuss about the mods' configs and whatnot. If it's not, let's forget it.

 

[PCPuddin]

I have just looked up what the integrated sounds packs do and have found nothing does anybody have any idea what they do?

 

[DoctorOr]

From now on I'm not even going to respond to "wiki experts" who quote conventions signed up even before computers existed. Software has loads of exceptions when it comes to copyright which are covered by local laws.

You shouldn't refer to wiki experts, in particular in areas of law which can decimate you financially and in worst cases put you in jail. While I have little care for what damage these beliefs you hold do to your own life, it is your own bed after all, the possibilities that somebody without mal intent could be harmed by following in your footsteps unawares bothers me.

The belief of some that precepts and agreements cease to hold sway just because they are old is a particularly sad one, and is right up there with the fools who think they don't really owe income tax because they declare themselves sovereign. Eventually, that belief is going to damage you.

(This is doubly so, because the Berne convention was joined by the US in _1988_. To consider that "old" is a clear affliction of the current youth generation. )

 

[Hoff]

I think I'm on my eighth bag of popcorn.