The Thaumcraft 4.1 Experience

[unknown zombie]

I did mention on the mc forums that I am thinking of nerfing their speed, but I'm not going to remove it. In the same post I also say the reason I want to nerf it is because I'm planning on adding quicker ways to repair things (via a item you keep in your inventory or some other method), but that has some sort of upkeep cost. In short, sort of the way repair worked in TC3.

In fact, if I can work out a server friendly way of having repair work EXACTLY like it did in TC3 I would be happy. However having items with repair constantly check their environs for sources of vis would hurt server ticks.

To be honest with you, I'm not sure I want another Thaumcraft item sitting in my inventory just to keep the Thaumium tools I have from breaking. I don't mean that in a negative way, I love your mod. What I mean is that I already have a Focus Pouch, a wand, and the Thaumometer in there. Sometimes the Thaumonomicon too, because I forget to put it away before I head out to go adventuring.

I feel like the Repair enchant is in an okay place as it currently is. Sometimes it feels kind of slow, but if you pace yourself it is decent. I don't think it needs a change, in my opinion.

Currently a Thaumium Grafter with Repair is the only thing keeping my sanity about tree breeding. A Thaumium Scoop with repair was also one of my favorite things before I was able to make an Equal Trade Focus (which is able to loot bees).

 

[hiroshi42]

Equal Trade Focus (which is able to loot bees).

... I hate you. Although I guess I should have tested this before now. And here I was all excited about darcraft's armor allowing you to harvest bees with your fists. Now the question is, does fortune/TC equivalent aid in bee collecting?

 

[MoosyDoosy]

To be honest with you, I'm not sure I want another Thaumcraft item sitting in my inventory just to keep the Thaumium tools I have from breaking. I don't mean that in a negative way, I love your mod. What I mean is that I already have a Focus Pouch, a wand, and the Thaumometer in there. Sometimes the Thaumonomicon too, because I forget to put it away before I head out to go adventuring.

I feel like the Repair enchant is in an okay place as it currently is. Sometimes it feels kind of slow, but if you pace yourself it is decent. I don't think it needs a change, in my opinion.

Currently a Thaumium Grafter with Repair is the only thing keeping my sanity about tree breeding. A Thaumium Scoop with repair was also one of my favorite things before I was able to make an Equal Trade Focus (which is able to loot bees).

I tend to have a knapsack. An Ender Pouch also tends to help to keep useful tools like shears and wrenches and stuff in there for use so that you don't have to go back home / go back to your storage room for the tool you want over and over and over again. Either of these (Ender Pouch is preferable as it stays in a chest) can hold your Thaumcraft stuff for some saved inventory space.

 

[ThatOneSlowking]

I tend to have a knapsack. An Ender Pouch also tends to help to keep useful tools like shears and wrenches and stuff in there for use so that you don't have to go back home / go back to your storage room for the tool you want over and over and over again. Either of these (Ender Pouch is preferable as it stays in a chest) can hold your Thaumcraft stuff for some saved inventory space.

I use a golden bag of holding to keep my TiC tools, crescent hammer, and thaumcraft stuff. Also useful for large mining trips

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I use a golden bag of holding to keep my TiC tools, crescent hammer, and thaumcraft stuff. Also useful for large mining trips

Oh, I forgot that one too. I tend to just use an ender chest as my sorting point entry into my sorting system so I just shove all ores or unwanted stuff into there while I'm in long term mining trips. Pretty much infinite mining until my TiC Hammer loses too much durability.

 

[Skyqula]

I'll submit that Staffs are pretty cool, though other than aesthetics serve little purpose

The staffs are actually a realy good move. As it stands we are limited by 9 items on our hotbar. I dont know about you, but I cannot spare one for a wand or even a bow. Additionally a wand, IMO, depletes way to quickly. Making it basicly a wrench. Sure you got some interesting foci, but whenever you realy wanna use it its always out of aspects.

These new staves fix all the problems here. They are a weapon and as such can get sharpness and looting, might not be the best base damage but will still 2 shot everything. It gives you ranged attacks on the same slot, acces to all the foci, significantly increased Vi storage and it regenerates some Vi for those "When ever you need it your... " ..not actually out! Best part? Indistructable, aka no unbreaking/repairing needed.

How are the tools (and Thaumium Armor too) made irrelevant? They're now outclassed by almost every other option, including vanilla diamond tools. Repair is frankly why they were viable at all due to them being based on bursts of durability use. Let's go down and look at each one individually:
-Armor: Basically just Invar or Steel armor. If you don't have tech mods then go make diamond armor because diamonds don't have nearly as many uses in magic mods.

Repair, honestly, sucks. Yes it is free repairing. But when actively using a tool its simply way to slow. Unbreaking is and has always been the better choice. Naming the tool and repairing it in an anvil for a fixed XP cost.

Also, Thaumium armor has never been awesome. Diamond has always been better. But most importantly, the new runic armor outclasses thaumium. Best part? Indistructable, aka no unbreaking/repairing needed.

Honestly, I realy like the changes. And outside of the tube changes (I actually like the "nerf", significant added gameplay depth) I realy dont get the bad feedback...

 

[DREVL]

Leaving aside the comments on how easy coding something is, what do you mean by... all of that? Non-KAMI (an addon to an addon made by someone else) tools are useless? How? Is the axe not going to chop wood, will the pick no longer give the double ingot goodness? Also: where are you getting this? Sources people sources! We are not the newspaper, we have standards here.

Harumph, as usual a bunch of hyperbole generated from one comment about something that may or may not happen.


From here

Thank you. No problems here with 4.1 so far from this thread. I can rework the essentia production problem from the pipes change. The teired repair looks honest enough. IN B 4 LOLariousT style thread close!

 

[DREVL]

I wasn't actually referring to what is being said in this thread. Lets just say I have been receiving some discouraging PM's on the mc forums and a few other places. Luckily I have developed a pretty tough skin over the years and for the most part 4.1 seems to have been well recieved.

Apart from the tube change.

Carry On. I was very surprised how delicate or spitefull mc modding was. I appreciated the easy research config you added. I can skirt the tube thing. As a personal opinion I was not interested in the research mini game anymore not being a role player sort. Mod is better. Thank you.

 

[Revemohl]

... I hate you. Although I guess I should have tested this before now. And here I was all excited about darcraft's armor allowing you to harvest bees with your fists. Now the question is, does fortune/TC equivalent aid in bee collecting?

If you're using Dartcraft, try infusing a grafter into a Force Axe with at least one sturdy upgrade as well. Enjoy your durable and useful grafter.

 

[thewindmillman]

I wasn't actually referring to what is being said in this thread. Lets just say I have been receiving some discouraging PM's on the mc forums and a few other places. Luckily I have developed a pretty tough skin over the years and for the most part 4.1 seems to have been well recieved.

Apart from the tube change.

I'm just gonna say here, any 'bashing' done via PM should probably just be outright ignored, considering they didn't do it in a public forum where people could criticize their words.

 

[DREVL]

I'm just gonna say here, any 'bashing' done via PM should probably just be outright ignored, considering they didn't do it in a public forum where people could criticize their words.

As plain as that was... you actually can't really criticize mods on this forum without threads being closed. This forum prefers you to criticize mods by pm. Flame wars and such.

 

[kaovalin]

As plain as that was... you actually can't really criticize mods on this forum without threads being closed. This forum prefers you to criticize mods by pm. Flame wars and such.

I've only ever seen unproductive threads filled with escalating personal attacks closed on this forum. The moderators even give warnings so I think they are pretty reasonable.

As for repairing moss from TiC, try adding that to a hammer and see how OP that is. The moss is only really practical for tools you dont use all the time or in large bursts. Moss just doesnt keep up for your every day tools. I like that I dont have to repair my sword. I dont fight all that often, and if I did I'd probably aim for rechargable flux tools.

 

[HeffronCM]

As for repairing moss from TiC, try adding that to a hammer and see how OP that is. The moss is only really practical for tools you dont use all the time or in large bursts. Moss just doesnt keep up for your every day tools. I like that I dont have to repair my sword. I dont fight all that often, and if I did I'd probably aim for rechargable flux tools.

That's the other half of the problem. Before TiC, you had to choose between an electric recharging non-enchantable tool, and a non-recharging enchanted tool without free repairs. Now, your can have a sharpness 3, unbreaking 2, looting 3 sword with higher base damage than diamond, and recharge it with either EU or RF.

 

[Democretes]

That's the other half of the problem. Before TiC, you had to choose between an electric recharging non-enchantable tool, and a non-recharging enchanted tool without free repairs. Now, your can have a sharpness 3, unbreaking 2, looting 3 sword with higher base damage than diamond, and recharge it with either EU or RF.

Gasp! A sword I will rarely use because I can easily make an MFR mob spawner that requires half the time sync, will probably be cheaper resource wise, and is far more fun to build.

At best all people use these OP swords is for gathering enderpearls early game. There are far better options for OP weaponry rather than TiCo. The only thing TiCo has is the repair enchant which is only partially useful if you hardly use the tool. Using it any longer than 5 minutes causes it to take more damage than you're willing to AFK for.

 

[Succubism]

The staffs are actually a realy good move. As it stands we are limited by 9 items on our hotbar. I dont know about you, but I cannot spare one for a wand or even a bow. Additionally a wand, IMO, depletes way to quickly. Making it basicly a wrench. Sure you got some interesting foci, but whenever you realy wanna use it its always out of aspects.

These new staves fix all the problems here. They are a weapon and as such can get sharpness and looting, might not be the best base damage but will still 2 shot everything. It gives you ranged attacks on the same slot, acces to all the foci, significantly increased Vi storage and it regenerates some Vi for those "When ever you need it your... " ..not actually out! Best part? Indistructable, aka no unbreaking/repairing needed

I wasn't aware you could use staffs as enchantable weapons. That's pretty neat, I'll give you that.



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[kaovalin]

That's the other half of the problem. Before TiC, you had to choose between an electric recharging non-enchantable tool, and a non-recharging enchanted tool without free repairs. Now, your can have a sharpness 3, unbreaking 2, looting 3 sword with higher base damage than diamond, and recharge it with either EU or RF.

Not true, I used to enchant my electric drills in 1.4.7. I dont know what happened in 1.5 because I never played it (skipped strait to 1.6.4 these past few months). Some of the electric tools even had build in abilities that were like an enchantment. I remember there being a silk touch electric tool, as well as electric tools that specifically were upgraded to be faster. So just because it didnt say "eff V" didnt mean it didnt mirror said enchant if not far exceed it.

 

[HeffronCM]

You folks are missing my point. Yes, there were a couple of things that could do some of what TiC tools can do. Yes, investing in a sword doesn't have a lot of purpose in current modded minecraft. The point is, people are comparing the power level of TC tools, and saying they need the Repair enchant to compete with TiC tools. I suggest that nothing can compete with TiC tools. Rechargeable Fortune 3 diamond-drill-speed cheaper-than-diamond-drill-per-block 3x3 mining was unmatched for quite a while. These days, to get something equivalent or better costs significantly more resource investment, and you have to invest it all at once, there is no making a functional item that sticks with you as you upgrade it.

TL,DR: TiC set the standard for MOST powerful tools available at highest resource cost, lets not judge TC tools base power by that metric or we're inviting power creep.

 

[Maldroth]

Here are my thoughts on 4.1, I'm about 50/50 on the changes.

• I've read up on the new pipes and I'm going to give them a shot before complaining about them.
• The new research game is nice though if you play with any TC addons I strongly suggest altering the config to raise the caps on research points other wise it will make things very hard.
• But on that note, glad the option is there to scale the desired difficulty for mod pack designers.
• I haven't had a chance to play with the new staves yet. So many Instrumentum research points needed I've depleted my reserves trying to get them.
• I'm conflicted about the repair enchant. I don't want to see it removed however I agree I liked how it worked in TC3. I also wouldn't want to see another item to put in my toolbar as that is already full. I do like the idea that TT used where you can place the item in a block and use essentia to refill it. Either that or do something with nodes like how wands or wand pedestals draw. In fact I wish there was more of a use for nodes with complex aspects aside from breaking them down later.
• I have not gotten to play around with Runic armor yet, but I wish it was more visible that the character is wearing it. I must admit I did like my purple Thaumium armor I thought it was rather stylish.

 

[Bagman817]

Not true, I used to enchant my electric drills in 1.4.7. I dont know what happened in 1.5 because I never played it (skipped strait to 1.6.4 these past few months). Some of the electric tools even had build in abilities that were like an enchantment. I remember there being a silk touch electric tool, as well as electric tools that specifically were upgraded to be faster. So just because it didnt say "eff V" didnt mean it didnt mirror said enchant if not far exceed it.

To be fair, that was a bug in IC2 (as I recall, it was an unexpected consequence of the Anvil being added to the game).

 

[kaovalin]

To be fair, that was a bug in IC2 (as I recall, it was an unexpected consequence of the Anvil being added to the game).

Yea I had edited that acknowledgement out inadvertently. However, my secondary statement stands that the tool was built with enchantments built-in so to speak. Adv D Drill was definately faster than the regular electric drill. The jack hammer from GT was also stupid fast at dealing with stone with no enchantments what so ever.