The moment of truth has arrived...

[Strikingwolf]

Now... What does this mean for the missed scene in the future?
(Shakes magic 8 ball)

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Given the stripped symbols...very very bad things

 

[Psychicash]

Given the stripped symbols...very very bad things

Wait are you telling me that Microsoft said they loved and would support the modding community and they're making decisions that actually don't?

Round of high fives for all of us that said told you so when the sale was announced.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[Strikingwolf]

Wait are you telling me that Microsoft said they loved and would support the modding community and they're making decisions that actually don't?

Round of high fives for all of us that said told you so when the sale was announced.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

*high five* I didn't like the sale either

 

[Psychicash]

Here's a question though... will the ftb launcher or curse versions of minecraft /modded for 1.7.10 work on Windows 10 the same as it does on 7, 8, or... XP... or whatever the kids are using now in days

 

[malicious_bloke]

I'm going to download win10, install it onto a VM and prod it with sticks until I'm sure it's not a crippled pile of wank.

 

[MigukNamja]

• The symbols were stripped. Modders benefited greatly from these being left in MCPE, but this is a massive setback to modding Win10 Edition and almost makes it not worth the trouble when combined with the DRM and everything else.

Please tell me if anyone reading this thread is shocked by that. I'm not.

Here's the thing : Microsoft paid a ton of money for Minecraft. They expect to get their money out of it. This means:

• Mods as DLC ($$$)
• Multiplayer tied to XBox Live accounts
• Apple-style control over add-on content
• APIs - if available - will be very restrictive in what they allow and will change immediately if anyone finds an 'exploit' MS doesn't like
• No decompiling and deofuscating C++ code, i.e. no way to force a modding API like Forge

Guaranteed Microsoft will monetize and promote the crap out Minecraft. The relatively small modded community is being swatted away like a gnat.

Microsoft may or may not earn its investment back, but guaranteed Microsoft won't give a rat's arse about the modded community or what's in LexManos' brain other than picking it so they can screw him over. If I had the money, I'd hire LexManos a lawyer. I'm afraid the raping of his intellectual property has already begun.

And, it's only a matter of time before Microsoft's lawyers eventually start issuing cease and desists to the MC modded community, starting with Lex, FTB, etc.,. Microsoft purchased the intellectual property of Mojang, with everything implied in the EULA that the modded community hated, such as "all user-created content belongs to Mojang."

That's the bad.

On the good, I'll go out on a limb and say 1.7 and 1.8 will live on in the modded community and continue to improve and when - not if, but when - Microsoft's lawyers kill modded MC - it will be replaced by an open-sourced, MMO sandbox game, likely written by a bored highschool or college student getting their coding chops. It won't be exactly like Minecraft, but it will have a lot of the same concepts:

• Open, massive world
• Very few base rules
• Most value will be from mods, i.e. the community

...and it will "fix" the many problems with MC 1.7/1.8, such as poor rendering code, infinite Y-axis chunks, etc.,.

 

[Type1Ninja]

I don't think they'll totally destroy modding. They have said that they want to do stuff that's good for the community (such as say, not making MC2), and as much as we all worry that's not true, they are human beings with consciences, not robots. Minecraft already makes a TON of money, and I think that they will at least see that. Besides, it's still primarily Mojang working on Java MC, and they still plan on making the Resource API are whatever silly name they're using. Just look in this most recent snapshot changelog - stuff about improving mob code, not just so map makers can make their own mobs, but also for modders (specifically mentioned). I think that it's a good sign that they haven't started killing mods yet - once we reach 1.9, THAT'S when I'll be watching, because I think it makes sense to say no to mods within a major version of them buying MC. After that, it gets less likely with time, I think.

 

[Psychicash]

I don't think they'll totally destroy modding. They have said that they want to do stuff that's good for the community (such as say, not making MC2), and as much as we all worry that's not true, they are human beings with consciences, not robots. Minecraft already makes a TON of money, and I think that they will at least see that. Besides, it's still primarily Mojang working on Java MC, and they still plan on making the Resource API are whatever silly name they're using. Just look in this most recent snapshot changelog - stuff about improving mob code, not just so map makers can make their own mobs, but also for modders (specifically mentioned). I think that it's a good sign that they haven't started killing mods yet - once we reach 1.9, THAT'S when I'll be watching, because I think it makes sense to say no to mods within a major version of them buying MC. After that, it gets less likely with time, I think.

I have to disagree. Minecraft sure makes some money from merchandise sales and maybe from server royalties, maybe. But it only makes money from sales for new sales. I could easily see Microsoft making you pay for mods and maybe updates. I could also see this community up and leaving to something else. If that happens, I don't think the game has enough of a hard core following to sustain any kind of financial model compared to games like say world of warcraft, call of duty, etc.

The writing is on the wall man

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[malicious_bloke]

I have to disagree. Minecraft sure makes some money from merchandise sales and maybe from server royalties, maybe. But it only makes money from sales for new sales. I could easily see Microsoft making you pay for mods and maybe updates. I could also see this community up and leaving to something else. If that happens, I don't think the game has enough of a hard core following to sustain any kind of financial model compared to games like say world of warcraft, call of duty, etc.

The writing is on the wall man

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Depends.

You may see it go the way the skyrim modding scene has gone, where it's still all 3rd party content but modders can charge for it on steam.

Although that would mean MS having their own web store thingy to fleece you with, and it would likely be a nightmarish underworld of microtransactions and spyware.

 

[Hambeau]

Here's a question though... will the ftb launcher or curse versions of minecraft /modded for 1.7.10 work on Windows 10 the same as it does on 7, 8, or... XP... or whatever the kids are using now in days

Yes. I've been running FtB/Curse on my Win10 preview partition since the second preview build in February (I think).

 

[Psychicash]

Depends.

You may see it go the way the skyrim modding scene has gone, where it's still all 3rd party content but modders can charge for it on steam.

Although that would mean MS having their own web store thingy to fleece you with, and it would likely be a nightmarish underworld of microtransactions and spyware.

Sounds like my experience with curse client back in world of warcraft during the lich king. Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[Hambeau]

Please tell me if anyone reading this thread is shocked by that. I'm not.

Here's the thing : Microsoft paid a ton of money for Minecraft. They expect to get their money out of it. This means:

• Mods as DLC ($$$)
• Multiplayer tied to XBox Live accounts
• Apple-style control over add-on content
• APIs - if available - will be very restrictive in what they allow and will change immediately if anyone finds an 'exploit' MS doesn't like
• No decompiling and deofuscating C++ code, i.e. no way to force a modding API like Forge

Guaranteed Microsoft will monetize and promote the crap out Minecraft. The relatively small modded community is being swatted away like a gnat.

Microsoft may or may not earn its investment back, but guaranteed Microsoft won't give a rat's arse about the modded community or what's in LexManos' brain other than picking it so they can screw him over. If I had the money, I'd hire LexManos a lawyer. I'm afraid the raping of his intellectual property has already begun.

And, it's only a matter of time before Microsoft's lawyers eventually start issuing cease and desists to the MC modded community, starting with Lex, FTB, etc.,. Microsoft purchased the intellectual property of Mojang, with everything implied in the EULA that the modded community hated, such as "all user-created content belongs to Mojang."

That's the bad.

On the good, I'll go out on a limb and say 1.7 and 1.8 will live on in the modded community and continue to improve and when - not if, but when - Microsoft's lawyers kill modded MC - it will be replaced by an open-sourced, MMO sandbox game, likely written by a bored highschool or college student getting their coding chops. It won't be exactly like Minecraft, but it will have a lot of the same concepts:

• Open, massive world
• Very few base rules
• Most value will be from mods, i.e. the community

...and it will "fix" the many problems with MC 1.7/1.8, such as poor rendering code, infinite Y-axis chunks, etc.,.

Win10 MC beta, or C++MC for short, was based on MCPE for several reasons... First, the source was already written. Second, they can already monetize right now by selling the skin-packs and special maps that sell for Xbox MC. You have to have an XBox account and you will get your custom skin automatically if you have one.

Call me a Fanboi if you want, but I'm guessing that they want to hold off "opening" the new version until all the other PE versions are updated to the same level. There are new things in the beta that aren't in PE yet and would probably break PE on consoles/Tablets/phones right now if included in mods. Right now C++MC isn't like all the others.

I may be an optimist but I still believe MS when they say they bought Mojang to use as a tool to get young kids into programming early. They have, in the last couple of years, concentrated on making Visual Studio:

• free for individuals, students and very small companies
• unified, supporting Windows PC's, phone and tablet software with the same source code
• cross-platform, with the latest version (2015) supporting Apple and Android

in addition to making .NET Framework open source.

Their goal is not to make tons of cash from Minecraft, hence retaining the "One License to Load Them All" approach instead of us having to purchase a new copy every version unlike the "bad ole days" Windows 10 has gone the same way, you'll notice. Microsoft will be making their money selling yearly license subscriptions to corporations, who will look forward to future generations of Visual Studio users hitting the workforce.

This was a tactic used by Apple in the 80's, except they only put systems into schools for almost free and getting a huge tax break that no other computer manufacturer, even IBM, seemed to qualify for. This is a reason why Commodore Business Systems and Atari Computers have disappeared as businesses.

 

[Type1Ninja]

Win10 MC beta, or C++MC for short, was based on MCPE for several reasons... First, the source was already written. Second, they can already monetize right now by selling the skin-packs and special maps that sell for Xbox MC. You have to have an XBox account and you will get your custom skin automatically if you have one.

Call me a Fanboi if you want, but I'm guessing that they want to hold off "opening" the new version until all the other PE versions are updated to the same level. There are new things in the beta that aren't in PE yet and would probably break PE on consoles/Tablets/phones right now if included in mods. Right now C++MC isn't like all the others.

I may be an optimist but I still believe MS when they say they bought Mojang to use as a tool to get young kids into programming early. They have, in the last couple of years, concentrated on making Visual Studio:

• free for individuals, students and very small companies
• unified, supporting Windows PC's, phone and tablet software with the same source code
• cross-platform, with the latest version (2015) supporting Apple and Android

in addition to making .NET Framework open source.

Their goal is not to make tons of cash from Minecraft, hence retaining the "One License to Load Them All" approach instead of us having to purchase a new copy every version unlike the "bad ole days" Windows 10 has gone the same way, you'll notice. Microsoft will be making their money selling yearly license subscriptions to corporations, who will look forward to future generations of Visual Studio users hitting the workforce.

This was a tactic used by Apple in the 80's, except they only put systems into schools for almost free and getting a huge tax break that no other computer manufacturer, even IBM, seemed to qualify for. This is a reason why Commodore Business Systems and Atari Computers have disappeared as businesses.

Exactly.
Optimism!

 

[Strikingwolf]

Please tell me if anyone reading this thread is shocked by that. I'm not.

Here's the thing : Microsoft paid a ton of money for Minecraft. They expect to get their money out of it. This means:

• Mods as DLC ($$$)
• Multiplayer tied to XBox Live accounts
• Apple-style control over add-on content
• APIs - if available - will be very restrictive in what they allow and will change immediately if anyone finds an 'exploit' MS doesn't like
• No decompiling and deofuscating C++ code, i.e. no way to force a modding API like Forge

Guaranteed Microsoft will monetize and promote the crap out Minecraft. The relatively small modded community is being swatted away like a gnat.

Microsoft may or may not earn its investment back, but guaranteed Microsoft won't give a rat's arse about the modded community or what's in LexManos' brain other than picking it so they can screw him over. If I had the money, I'd hire LexManos a lawyer. I'm afraid the raping of his intellectual property has already begun.

And, it's only a matter of time before Microsoft's lawyers eventually start issuing cease and desists to the MC modded community, starting with Lex, FTB, etc.,. Microsoft purchased the intellectual property of Mojang, with everything implied in the EULA that the modded community hated, such as "all user-created content belongs to Mojang."

That's the bad.

I'm not so much shocked by it as I am disappointed...

On the good, I'll go out on a limb and say 1.7 and 1.8 will live on in the modded community and continue to improve and when - not if, but when - Microsoft's lawyers kill modded MC - it will be replaced by an open-sourced, MMO sandbox game, likely written by a bored highschool or college student getting their coding chops. It won't be exactly like Minecraft, but it will have a lot of the same concepts:

• Open, massive world
• Very few base rules
• Most value will be from mods, i.e. the community

...and it will "fix" the many problems with MC 1.7/1.8, such as poor rendering code, infinite Y-axis chunks, etc.,.

I could see that happening, it doesn't seem unlikely.

I don't think they'll totally destroy modding. They have said that they want to do stuff that's good for the community (such as say, not making MC2), and as much as we all worry that's not true, they are human beings with consciences, not robots. Minecraft already makes a TON of money, and I think that they will at least see that. Besides, it's still primarily Mojang working on Java MC, and they still plan on making the Resource API are whatever silly name they're using. Just look in this most recent snapshot changelog - stuff about improving mob code, not just so map makers can make their own mobs, but also for modders (specifically mentioned). I think that it's a good sign that they haven't started killing mods yet - once we reach 1.9, THAT'S when I'll be watching, because I think it makes sense to say no to mods within a major version of them buying MC. After that, it gets less likely with time, I think.

I think they will restrict modding to a point that the community will buckle in on itself or find/make another game to mod

I have to disagree. Minecraft sure makes some money from merchandise sales and maybe from server royalties, maybe. But it only makes money from sales for new sales. I could easily see Microsoft making you pay for mods and maybe updates. I could also see this community up and leaving to something else. If that happens, I don't think the game has enough of a hard core following to sustain any kind of financial model compared to games like say world of warcraft, call of duty, etc.

The writing is on the wall man

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

DLC is definitely going to be a thing...which scares the shit out of me. Free to Play with monetized DLC can be a great thing...but I don't trust MS/Mojang with it one bit

Win10 MC beta, or C++MC for short, was based on MCPE for several reasons... First, the source was already written. Second, they can already monetize right now by selling the skin-packs and special maps that sell for Xbox MC. You have to have an XBox account and you will get your custom skin automatically if you have one.

Call me a Fanboi if you want, but I'm guessing that they want to hold off "opening" the new version until all the other PE versions are updated to the same level. There are new things in the beta that aren't in PE yet and would probably break PE on consoles/Tablets/phones right now if included in mods. Right now C++MC isn't like all the others.

I may be an optimist but I still believe MS when they say they bought Mojang to use as a tool to get young kids into programming early. They have, in the last couple of years, concentrated on making Visual Studio:

• free for individuals, students and very small companies
• unified, supporting Windows PC's, phone and tablet software with the same source code
• cross-platform, with the latest version (2015) supporting Apple and Android

in addition to making .NET Framework open source.

Their goal is not to make tons of cash from Minecraft, hence retaining the "One License to Load Them All" approach instead of us having to purchase a new copy every version unlike the "bad ole days" Windows 10 has gone the same way, you'll notice. Microsoft will be making their money selling yearly license subscriptions to corporations, who will look forward to future generations of Visual Studio users hitting the workforce.

This was a tactic used by Apple in the 80's, except they only put systems into schools for almost free and getting a huge tax break that no other computer manufacturer, even IBM, seemed to qualify for. This is a reason why Commodore Business Systems and Atari Computers have disappeared as businesses.

What they want to do and what is happening here are two different things. What I see happening is the larger mods becoming DLC content owned by MS and/or C&D orders there, whereas smaller mods (such as those made by children learning to code) are left alone.


Either way, the way things look right now, I'm not optimistic about the future of this modded community, maybe in another game, but not this one

 

[Padfoote]

Depends.

You may see it go the way the skyrim modding scene has gone, where it's still all 3rd party content but modders can charge for it on steam.

Although that would mean MS having their own web store thingy to fleece you with, and it would likely be a nightmarish underworld of microtransactions and spyware.

Due to the backlash and copyright issues that was removed on Steam. If MS goes a similar route they'll have to handle this problems before they pop up.

 

[Psychicash]

I-snip -
DLC is definitely going to be a thing...which scares the shit out of me. Free to Play with monetized DLC can be a great thing...but I don't trust MS/Mojang with it one bit
-snip-

Ok the more I thought about this one the more mixed feelings I have. I think that given the right online market it would be awesome for mod creators to be able to be recognized in such a way. I mean they put in all this hard work and time and effort. They should be able to be "reliably" paid instead of just a hand out when we go "Wow that mod was great, I want to donate". That and the little bit of monetary compensation is unpredictable. So on that hand I think it's great.

The issue I see comes from much of the DLC on xbox. There's a lot of hype and a lot of advertisement and then you buy it and it's either not what you thought, didn't have the features that you were lead to believe or just outright now good. I fear that any tom dick or harry that thinks he could code a mod would put it out there and as long as it met the requirements of the market and they agreed to Microsoft's cut off the top then out it goes. Even now on the apple marketplace and on the android there are apps that work and meet the criteria but are just abysmal. I think that we would be in danger of seeing that. I know I'm a cynic but look at what happened when DLC first became a thing! At first it was almost whole expansions of a game. Now with most triple a games you're paying to unlock content that was included on the disc you bought in the first place. not only that the but addons are trite at best. Though this may not affect this community the same on the onset it will eventually sneak in there. Not to mention hack sites (hack is as in both meanings of the word) that host or distribute mods without the authors permission or with malware or both; I would expect these sites to start contributing "empty mods" that add nothing to the game of any function or value just to collect their share of the $0.99 they charge or $1.99 or etc.

This will create a landscape that is ripe for youtube personalities such as Direwolf20 to crop up to give reviews and recommendations. It will make their presence more marketable and result in more "job security" if you will. However as this expands I would guess that many would show up that wouldn't be as honest as Direwolf. I could see this making for an interesting time and a lot of regretful transactions. Because I'll be honest other than the "game of the year" editions I've bought on the 360, I have always regretted purchasing DLC content. I have yet to run across content that was just jaw dropping amazing...

I take that back the expansion levels for Defense Grid in the xbox arcade... I still the play the crap out those. Other than that though, every single transaction. And don't even get me started on in game micro transactions. I've purchased more dye packs in Guild Wars 2 than I care to remember. Micro transactions are to gamers what Twinkies are to fat kids. Delicious and unavoidably tempting but in the end empty calories that provide no substance and no filling and leave you feeling sad... at the lunch table... with cream on your shirt and crumbs on your plate... It's sad. Don't do it. Friends don't let friends purchase micro transactions!

 

[Strikingwolf]

Ok the more I thought about this one the more mixed feelings I have. I think that given the right online market it would be awesome for mod creators to be able to be recognized in such a way. I mean they put in all this hard work and time and effort. They should be able to be "reliably" paid instead of just a hand out when we go "Wow that mod was great, I want to donate". That and the little bit of monetary compensation is unpredictable. So on that hand I think it's great.

The issue I see comes from much of the DLC on xbox. There's a lot of hype and a lot of advertisement and then you buy it and it's either not what you thought, didn't have the features that you were lead to believe or just outright now good. I fear that any tom dick or harry that thinks he could code a mod would put it out there and as long as it met the requirements of the market and they agreed to Microsoft's cut off the top then out it goes. Even now on the apple marketplace and on the android there are apps that work and meet the criteria but are just abysmal. I think that we would be in danger of seeing that. I know I'm a cynic but look at what happened when DLC first became a thing! At first it was almost whole expansions of a game. Now with most triple a games you're paying to unlock content that was included on the disc you bought in the first place. not only that the but addons are trite at best. Though this may not affect this community the same on the onset it will eventually sneak in there. Not to mention hack sites (hack is as in both meanings of the word) that host or distribute mods without the authors permission or with malware or both; I would expect these sites to start contributing "empty mods" that add nothing to the game of any function or value just to collect their share of the $0.99 they charge or $1.99 or etc.

This will create a landscape that is ripe for youtube personalities such as Direwolf20 to crop up to give reviews and recommendations. It will make their presence more marketable and result in more "job security" if you will. However as this expands I would guess that many would show up that wouldn't be as honest as Direwolf. I could see this making for an interesting time and a lot of regretful transactions. Because I'll be honest other than the "game of the year" editions I've bought on the 360, I have always regretted purchasing DLC content. I have yet to run across content that was just jaw dropping amazing...

I take that back the expansion levels for Defense Grid in the xbox arcade... I still the play the crap out those. Other than that though, every single transaction. And don't even get me started on in game micro transactions. I've purchased more dye packs in Guild Wars 2 than I care to remember. Micro transactions are to gamers what Twinkies are to fat kids. Delicious and unavoidably tempting but in the end empty calories that provide no substance and no filling and leave you feeling sad... at the lunch table... with cream on your shirt and crumbs on your plate... It's sad. Don't do it. Friends don't let friends purchase micro transactions!

Can I sum my feelings about this up with Extra Credits playlist? Sure I can
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5BF-cMaj6gIe-7uD5rZG9ur

 

[Psychicash]

Can I sum my feelings about this up with Extra Credits playlist? Sure I can
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhyKYa0YJ_5BF-cMaj6gIe-7uD5rZG9ur

Ok so after watching all the videos I have to say...
First that I subscribed. These guys are awesome.
Second, they really verbalize a few things that I couldn't articulate, a few others that I thought but didn't say, and quite a few things I didn't think of.


Really great link thanks.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[Hambeau]

I don't really think you can predict the future of "C++ MC" based on the XBox... I am by no means an XBox expert, or any other non-PC dedicated gaming system since the SEGA Genesis went off the market, but I don't recall having recently seen 3rd party software products for any of the consoles. It seems to me that it's easier to control the market when you control the hardware and who has access to the internals.

On the other hand, PC software and hardware are about as open as you can get. Sure, you have to get C++ MC from the Windows APP store, just like you have to get MCPE from the various IOS/Android stores or even get Java MC from Mojang, but even MCPE has a small modding community already. The only platforms that don't, as far as I can tell, are the big consoles. Sure, you can buy skin packs and the like from the dedicated stores, but nowhere else that I am aware of.

If nothing else I think perhaps some C++ guru will sit down and write something like MCP for the new version as a challenge... Back in the day magazines like Byte, Creative Computing and Dr. Dobbs held contests to write efficient code, things like "Machine code floating point basic math routines smaller than a page" (a page is 256 bytes on 8-bit CPUs) or Dr. Dobbs annual "Obfuscated C" contest where the goal was to produce the most unreadable code possible. Someone will pick up the gauntlet if needed.

The other thing is, compared to Java MC, this first version of C++ MC is fast. Here's a link if you haven't seen it yet. Warning, loud "bumper" music.

As you can see, some features of Java MC have already made it into C++ MC. Other things won't change, since some will prefer touch screen or contoller over a reliable keyboard/mouse combo

 

[malicious_bloke]

From the video that Hambeau posted, it sounds like MC IDs aren't going to cross over and instead it'll be linked to your XBOX tag.

I do not, have never, and plan to never own a fucking XBOX. I don't have an XBOX gamertag and I don't fucking want one.

NO. STOP IT.