Technic Team releases Tekkit Lite

[Malkuth]

Hmmm going to have to check out tubestuff now I guess.. why wait when you have an Edit Mods button.. MOohahahahha

 

[LazDude2012]

Honestly, Treecap isn't that OP when configured correctly. It'll only work with axes, and take the durability out of the axe as if you'd chopped the whole tree. It just means a bit less time spent in the "Stuck in vanilla" phase of the game.

 

[raiju]

Watch out on the politics between mod author permission, FTB, and Tekkit. Again, this thread is more about the mods and their inclusion/exclusion of different packs and going off on a tangent that could devolve into a circlejerk and/or flame war is just going to get us locked.

As for the trees issue, I would quite frankly love it if there were a mod that gives an item that lets you literally fell trees - Trees falling over when broken by a certain item (A Logger's Axe or something of that ilk) would be fantastic and not as overpowered as, say, the insta-chop Treecapitator. Unfortunately, nobody's written this.

I'm not hte biggest researcher, but I heard the reason they never added treecapacitor or w/e it's called is because it would make thaumcraft 3 tool redundant.

Ofcourse that won't help with the vanilla portion of the game, but it can help later on if you haven't got tree farms for everything by then.

 

[Hydra]

That's largely because everyone wants to cry about IP rights and who is entitled to what but nobody has the bawls to hire a lawyer, which makes all the crying largely moot.

My 2 cents:

The biggest issue is that all mods basically use parts of minecraft. You can't claim copyright on a mod unless you license the right to use the stuff from Notch.

Basically, modding communities tend to spring up around games. The modders benefit from a game they can plug their stuff into, the game benefits from the mods because it makes the game more fun and grows the playerbase. So although modders often in the truest sense of the word cross the line when it comes to copyright, the game developers don't bother trying to sue them because they simply would shoot themselves in the foot.

However, modders crying about copyright are doing exactly that: they claim stuff they don't have. The way some of the modders reacted to Technic and also how the flamers from the MC forums joined that drama is pretty unique in the 'modding' world. The issue is that Notch made craptons of money on Minecraft and modders want a piece of that pie. So don't think this is some kind of principal matter, they got all upset simply because they started making less money on something that wasn't really theirs to begin with.

FTB came along and now they can't pretend anymore it's an issue about principles. FTB does exactly the same as Technic does. However, Technic started out just as a convenience for server players that kinda exploded. Just like normal server owners didn't ask permission to distribute a zip with all the mods they were using (why would you, it's a mod, you're not infringing anyone's copyright by mirroring something they make available themselves) the Technic server team didn't ask permissions for their server either. But this pack simply exploded in how popular it because. FTB had the benefit of knowing not to make this mistake.

Last but not least: copyright laws are different all over the world. It is WAY too complex to claim copyright on a game mod by a single modder. They simply can't. So I don't understand why some try instead of just saying it's open source and ask for donations. Here in Europe you don't have to defend your copyright like you're saying, but you also can't simply claim copyright on a game mod that uses game assets.

 

[LazDude2012]

Weren't we supposed to get back on topic? Really? Modders' motivations are neither here nor there, and I realise this is what every Technic related thread is doomed to fall into, but why don't we take this argument, table it, and start a new thread about it later? Heck, I'll start it if y'all want. But, why not get back to the issues at hand? You know, Tekkit Lite and the new Technic Launcher?

Tekkit Lite is meh, as they don't have Railcraft. I'm not a big Forestry guy, but Railcraft was a big blow.

Personally, I think the Technic Launcher is a lot better looking than FTB's. The fact that when you remember your username and password, it displays your MC skin for a one click login is pretty cool, they've got a very visible "Donate to the Modders" button right there, and even a "Forums" button for support. I think FTB could take a few tricks from that. (plus, they're totally cool with that, it's open source! ) Their new "Custom Zip" feature allows me to add any Minecraft instance to the launcher, (I personally added PLUS+, my server instance, and FTB's Direwolf pack)

However, FTB has more modpacks in play, and hopefully with Ultimate coming soon, even more! I think if they were to make a less cluttered launcher, and possibly add in the skins thing, (because most people love their skins, and like to see them) it would be awesome.

 

[heavy1metal]

Please cut it out, the topic is a good one that doesn't need to be derailed.

I invite tekkit to give some competition. The best innovation and progress comes from competition, when the market gets stagnant is when you see the monopoly mindset and laziness. The reason we have such great mods is because modders take an idea and improve upon it. Just look at BC vs RP pipes. BC pipes have their flaws (mainly how it handles items) so RP took it up to create smarter pipes. In response BC added logic gates to help control how items are handled. You also have TE's power and liquid pipes that do an amazing job, and I expect BC to fight back and improve their power/liquid pipes.

The FTB team knows that there's still a large technic/tekkit following and it's a good motivation to create a better launcher. The private pack feature imo is a big win compared to tekkit. This is a wonderful compromise by the FTB team to allow a little more customization for servers. Eager to see Tekkit's next feature other than just bundling mods.

Also with a large majority of mods going SMP, technic and single player mod packs seem like a dying breed. To mean, you would just click Single Player vs download a whole other pack.

My 2 cents:

The biggest issue is that all mods basically use parts of minecraft. You can't claim copyright on a mod unless you license the right to use the stuff from Notch.

Basically, modding communities tend to spring up around games. The modders benefit from a game they can plug their stuff into, the game benefits from the mods because it makes the game more fun and grows the playerbase. So although modders often in the truest sense of the word cross the line when it comes to copyright, the game developers don't bother trying to sue them because they simply would shoot themselves in the foot.

However, modders crying about copyright are doing exactly that: they claim stuff they don't have. The way some of the modders reacted to Technic and also how the flamers from the MC forums joined that drama is pretty unique in the 'modding' world. The issue is that Notch made craptons of money on Minecraft and modders want a piece of that pie. So don't think this is some kind of principal matter, they got all upset simply because they started making less money on something that wasn't really theirs to begin with.

FTB came along and now they can't pretend anymore it's an issue about principles. FTB does exactly the same as Technic does. However, Technic started out just as a convenience for server players that kinda exploded. Just like normal server owners didn't ask permission to distribute a zip with all the mods they were using (why would you, it's a mod, you're not infringing anyone's copyright by mirroring something they make available themselves) the Technic server team didn't ask permissions for their server either. But this pack simply exploded in how popular it because. FTB had the benefit of knowing not to make this mistake.

Last but not least: copyright laws are different all over the world. It is WAY too complex to claim copyright on a game mod by a single modder. They simply can't. So I don't understand why some try instead of just saying it's open source and ask for donations. Here in Europe you don't have to defend your copyright like you're saying, but you also can't simply claim copyright on a game mod that uses game assets.

 

[LazDude2012]

heavymetal: wha? Technic is the one with a good private pack feature ATM, not FTB.

And you're right. I do foresee Technic and Tekkit finding a different way to separate them in the future.

 

[heavy1metal]

You can play any of FTB's pack in single player, if anything they're (technic) missing mods I personally find fun.

I can't pull up their site, but what mods are in their single player pack that are only SSP? Buildcraft 3.0 was the last SSP mod I can remember, and now it's SMP.

 

[LazDude2012]

Thaumcraft was the last SSP holdout, I believe. All mods are SMP now by definition.

I think in the future, Technic and Tekkit will have different purposes. Like, I'd imagine Tekkit would still be a lot more Multiplayer oriented, using BukkitForge to provide Bukit functionality, and Technic would have a lot more mods.

 

[kroysemaj]

My little server family tried Tekkit Lite for a few days before moving to FTB. A lot of the mods in Tekkit Lite feel really alpha-y.

Case in point, the mineFactory RL mod has changed hands several times and all the documentation I could find online showed the recipes as being created one way but NEI showing them being made another way. They also seemed to be powered differently once I had them built so I could actually get any of that stuff working. I'm sure it all works but I have no idea how to make it work and the online docs are out of date.

The mod we miss most is Treecapitator. I thought Forestry had something like that where you chop a tree (with an axe) and all the wood/leaf blocks above are destroyed. So handy.

 

[LazDude2012]

indeed it is, my friend. I believe Thaumcraft has the Axe of the Stream, not sure if it actually has it yet or not. But it's a very nice tool.

 

[kroysemaj]

Ah good, b/c I was considering slipping Treecapitator into our mod pack but I wasnt sure if that would cause any conflicts. #noviceServerAdmin I guess we don't have to if there's a ThaumCraft solution.

 

[LazDude2012]

Not sure if there is or not. Treecap won't cause any conflict though, although remember, it's a coremod, not a regular mod.

 

[kroysemaj]

Of course I know that. And of course I know what that means and what the difference between core mods and regular mods are and why it's important! #iDontActually

 

[danidas]

It looks like technics latest trick is working with the bukkitforge team that are porting bukkit to forage instead of forage to bukkit like the old foragebukkit team did. So they should be able to update tekkit classic with full bukkit plug-in support creating a potentially superior SMP experience than FTB. Combined with their superior but more risky (permission gray area) custom pack feature I see a bright future for technic.

Personally I am looking forward to converting the small family server I play on to a custom tekkit pack with a few of the awesome mods in FTB that will probably never be in tekkit.

 

[LazDude2012]

Basically, it works out like this.

Technic is foolhardy, and not afraid to take risks. This results in innovation, and cool new features and such, but cutting edge usually means someone gets cut.

FTB is cautious, and avoids anything that could cause controversy. This results in a more stable experience, as change takes time here.

The community is better off having both than it would be with just Technic or just FTB. With both, the community has equal measures innovation and stability, and hopefully this mix will carry well into the future.

 

[heavy1metal]

My little server family tried Tekkit Lite for a few days before moving to FTB. A lot of the mods in Tekkit Lite feel really alpha-y.

Case in point, the mineFactory RL mod has changed hands several times and all the documentation I could find online showed the recipes as being created one way but NEI showing them being made another way. They also seemed to be powered differently once I had them built so I could actually get any of that stuff working. I'm sure it all works but I have no idea how to make it work and the online docs are out of date.

The mod we miss most is Treecapitator. I thought Forestry had something like that where you chop a tree (with an axe) and all the wood/leaf blocks above are destroyed. So handy.

Redpower 2's Sickle will destroy leaves like nobody's business.

 

[kroysemaj]

Redpower 2's Sickle will destroy leaves like nobody's business.

Yeah I use a sickle for that. But it's trucks we're most concerned about. I have a camp next to a rainforest and I have to build a nerdpole 30m high to get to to top and take it down from there.

 

[Tylor]

indeed it is, my friend. I believe Thaumcraft has the Axe of the Stream, not sure if it actually has it yet or not. But it's a very nice tool.

Thaumcraft 3 has Rod of Equal Trade that can be used to chop trees too.

 

[CrafterOfMines57]

Basically, it works out like this.

Technic is foolhardy, and not afraid to take risks. This results in innovation, and cool new features and such, but cutting edge usually means someone gets cut.

Yeah and you know, the whole taking mods without permission thing. The person that gets cut is usually the modders, people were straight up telling CovertJaguar that he didn't have the rights to his own work when he threatened them with removing his mod from the pack, saying hateful and entitled stuff along the lines of "nobody used RailCraft anyway" and "it doesn't matter what you do, your mod is ours now".