Technic Team releases Tekkit Lite

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ICountFrom0

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Aug 21, 2012
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If nothing else, that is how we distinguish ourselves, by being a politer forum.

I notice the posted thread gets closed with a statement of "resolved", not even a "my bad".

Is it just me, or is every single one of the ones in light "open source" or some derivative there of?
 

LazDude2012

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Jul 29, 2019
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ICountFrom0:
1. Eh, trust me. the FTB forums aren't that polite when deep-cutting issues are brought up either. It's human nature.
2. The issue *was* resolved. Personally, the Technic team didn't do anything wrong, but that's neither here nor there. It was an issue, and it was resolved in a personal conversation, as it should have been in the first place.
3. I'm a big believer in open source, but no. They're not all open source, they're the standard techmods that people use. I get your subtle implication there, that they only included FOSS mods because they didn't have permission for any others, but consider this. If I asked for permission for a modpack for a mod, and Technic asked too, the odds are more than likely that I'd get accepted and Technic would get rejected. People hate Technic. It's really a downward spiral. They need permissions, but if they asked, everyone (because everyone hates them) would say no, so they don't ask. Unfortunate really.
 
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BanzaiBlitz

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Jul 29, 2019
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They did it to themselves.

The simple respect of asking first goes a long way even though a LOT of people forget how important it truly is.
 

Enigmius1

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Jul 29, 2019
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The one thing I noticed with regards to this change and also with regards to mod packs in general is that people rarely play the same mod pack anymore. Typically the best that can be said is that they use the same launcher as some other guy. I can tell people I play FTB and it means approximately jack in terms of what mods I'm actually using, what config settings I'm using, or anything else. It's more about the launcher, the brand, and the politics.
 

Entropy

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The one thing I noticed with regards to this change and also with regards to mod packs in general is that people rarely play the same mod pack anymore. Typically the best that can be said is that they use the same launcher as some other guy. I can tell people I play FTB and it means approximately jack in terms of what mods I'm actually using, what config settings I'm using, or anything else. It's more about the launcher, the brand, and the politics.

This right here is a good point. Have a like. I use FTB for my current survival world, Technic for my old survival world, and Plus+ for mod experimentation (106 mods is amazing).

I use both, I couldn't care less about the politics, because frankly this community needs to grow up and move past it.

The politics behind all of this is nothing more than petty squabbling from all sides. I've never seen a legitimate argument from anyone, not Slowpoke, not Kaker, and not from Johnny McNo Mods.
 

Enigmius1

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The politics behind all of this is nothing more than petty squabbling from all sides. I've never seen a legitimate argument from anyone, not Slowpoke, not Kaker, and not from Johnny McNo Mods.

That's largely because everyone wants to cry about IP rights and who is entitled to what but nobody has the bawls to hire a lawyer, which makes all the crying largely moot. If people want to claim copyright, they have to defend that copyright. If they can't/won't defend it, it's functionally void. It's kind of like the FAQs and such you find on GameFAQs. Almost all of them contain some sort of copyright notice, some of which are quite verbose. Waste of bandwidth to have those extra characters transmitted every time someone opens the guide or whatever because it'll never be enforced and without proper legal enforcement it means nothing. Add to that all of the 9-14 age demographic who suddenly become lawyers every time the MC mod IP topic comes up and it's a mess.
 

Entropy

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I think I'll actually add the FTB Mindcrack pack to Technic launcher, for the lulz and the convenience.

Some men just want to watch the world burn.... That's the best thing I've ever heard.

That's largely because everyone wants to cry about IP rights and who is entitled to what but nobody has the bawls to hire a lawyer, which makes all the crying largely moot. If people want to claim copyright, they have to defend that copyright. If they can't/won't defend it, it's functionally void. It's kind of like the FAQs and such you find on GameFAQs. Almost all of them contain some sort of copyright notice, some of which are quite verbose. Waste of bandwidth to have those extra characters transmitted every time someone opens the guide or whatever because it'll never be enforced and without proper legal enforcement it means nothing. Add to that all of the 9-14 age demographic who suddenly become lawyers every time the MC mod IP topic comes up and it's a mess.

Pretty much, Minecraft sure loves their armchair lawyers. To be honest, I think the Minecraft forums really started the problems with their weird copyright stuff, and wonderfully biased and often really bad moderation. Technic and FTB have done a much better job with moderation.
 

Enigmius1

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Pretty much, Minecraft sure loves their armchair lawyers. To be honest, I think the Minecraft forums really started the problems with their weird copyright stuff, and wonderfully biased and often really bad moderation. Technic and FTB have done a much better job with moderation.

Minecraft general forums are too big to be properly moderated. Too many accounts and too many posters; it would cost a fortune to maintain it 'properly' and half the posters would wind up running sobbing to their parents because after years of douchebag behavior they finally got bant.

I remember posting a link to one of my guide-sih Tekkit videos on the Minecraft reddit and was promptly informed by a 12 yr old that I was in violation of international copyright laws because my video featured Tekkit. Everywhere you go, someone has a mad-on for mod packs. Tekkit players hate on FTB, FTB p layers hate on Tekkit. Most of them don't even know why they're hating; it's just the trendy thing to do.
 

danidas

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Jul 29, 2019
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Their is also the fact that mod authors are forbidden from selling their mods via the minecraft ToS and since they cannot show monetary loss as well as the mods being derivative works of minecraft. It kinda makes it hard to impossible for them to really create any type of court case themselves whether their copyrights are valid or not. As no tangible damages can be shown and no lawyer or judge would accept said case. The only way for it to happen would be if Mojang got involved but that would be armageddon for modders as the legal can of worms would be opened.

Edit: Note I am not saying that mods are not copyrighted, just that said copy rights would be insanely hard to defend due to the massive legal gray area they reside in.
 

Entropy

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Their is also the fact that mod authors are forbidden from selling their mods via the minecraft ToS and since they cannot show monetary loss as well as the mods being derivative works of minecraft. It kinda makes it hard to impossible for them to really create any type of court case themselves whether their copyrights are valid or not. As no tangible damages can be shown and no lawyer or judge would accept said case. The only way for it to happen would be if Mojang got involved but that would be armageddon for modders as the legal can of worms would be opened.

Edit: Note I am not saying that mods are not copyrighted, just that said copy rights would be insanely hard to defend due to the massive legal gray area they reside in.

You can thank Curse and MCF for this actually, as it's their psuedo-copyright rules that mods are based on.
 

Ember Quill

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Nov 2, 2012
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Okay, I know that the Technic forums have a bit of a bad reputation, but I was still not expecting that thread to be such a cesspool of immaturity and stupidity. I don't really have anything against Tekkit or Technic, but their user base is what put me off in the first place.

It's good that Tekkit is finally kind-of up to date though. As I said, I don't use it, but I imagine plenty of server admins who used to rely on bukkit features are celebrating.

Anyway, about Logistics Pipes, honestly I just thought it wasn't included because switching from the RS485 fork to Krapht's original version could be problematic for preexisting worlds, especially since a lot of new things are added in the forked version that would then be erased with the switch.

EDIT: Or it could just be that the fork seems to update almost daily, sometimes several times a day.
 

bwillb

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That's largely because everyone wants to cry about IP rights and who is entitled to what but nobody has the bawls to hire a lawyer, which makes all the crying largely moot.
Honestly they don't have the balls to hire a lawyer because they know they're wrong. Forestry, for instance, one of the biggest anti-technic mods, uses a lot of item textures that are blatant recolors of Mojang assets, which goes against Mojang terms. They don't have any more right to distribute the full mod than some bum on the street would.
 

Enigmius1

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Jul 29, 2019
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Apparently because I understand Covert's reasoning entirely that makes me a fanboy rager. Nice logic you kids are having there.

Understanding the reasoning is entirely irrelevant. That's where these whole discussions end up in debates and then the debates get ugly. There's a right way and a wrong way to do things. If you steal half my sandwich at lunch, I'm not legally entitled to punch you in the face. That, of course, was an analogy, and according to rule #17 of "How to Argue Poorly on the Internet", someone previously uninvolved in the conversation must now enter the discussion to split hairs over the analogy because they don't fully understand what an analogy is.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Mod Author A is fully entitled to create and post asinine restrictions on permissions. Nobody can successfully argue against that. And the options for those interested in using the mod in any capacity are to respect those asinine restrictions or not use the mod. See? We're on the same page. I understand what you're saying. So if Mod Pack Team 1 doesn't comply with the conditions set down by those restrictions, they're in the wrong. Doesn't matter how retarded those restrictions are. It's totally irrelevant. The conditions exist as set down by the person with the IP rights on the mod in question, meaning they have every right to apply those restrictions. Even if they're really, really stupid restrictions.

With me so far? This is sort of where things like this go to shit, because if I had approached this any differently, 9 times out of 10 someone making a post such as yours would have continued the argument under the premise that I don't understand the reasoning and I don't understand what's going on but if I did, I'd agree. I'd have to. Logic dictates. If I knew what you knew, 1 + 1 would naturally equate to 2 in the minds of any sane person. Right?

Of course. And for that same reason, no sane person would say the Technic crew is in the right for using mods that they don't have permission to use, especially after all the nonsense they've been through.

But you know what doesn't help the situation? When the community defends poor behavior in response to poor behavior. That's not how the world works. (Actually, sometimes it does work that way, and that's why we still have standing armies and police/legal structures, but you get the point.) That's how certain other mod authors still enjoy a contentious measure of popularity. People who don't think things through defending wrong behavior because it was in response to wrong behavior. In the event of a conflict, at least one party to the conflict has to have the bawls to stand up and behave like an adult in order to bring about a definite end to the conflict. Mod Author A blustering on Mod Pack 1's forums like an uber-dork 14 year old does not qualify as acting as an adult. Doesn't matter if he's right in his claims Mod Pack Team 1 lacks permission to use his mod. Doesn't matter one damn bit. He's being a juvenile twunt about it, and he's making things worse. He's setting himself up to be the guy getting hauled out of the lunch room in handcuffs while the guy with the black eye is enjoying half a sammich.

Cue second iteration of rule #17.

There are certain ways to resolve conflicts that don't involve being a juvenile dork stamping your feet and pointing to your draconian rules like anyone but you cares. Even if you're right, it's still the wrong way to fix the problem. If these dumbass mod authors would just learn how to resolve these things like adults, they wouldn't polarize half the community to support the Technic team. Imagine if half the people who currently support the Technic team stood up and told them to knock it off with ignoring permissions, and the remaining half realized they were just badly outnumbered and mostly faded into the background. Do you think that would be more effective in motivating the Technic team to be a little more dilligent? Or is juvenile feuding your preferred method of dealing with these things? Because that's sort of the problem...when you've got a grievance and you handle it with what amounts to a public temper tantrum, people who might normally back you denounce your entire position because of your behavior and in matters such as this, the voice of the community as a whole carries much more weight than the voice of a socially inept mod dev.
 

raiju

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Jul 29, 2019
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People wouldn't have to make lawyer threats if people (mostly on the technic boards but some here too) had just a little bit of a respect for people who work without pay to bring the your entertainment. They run off donations and credit. If you start spitting in the face of that (not saying tekkit are as a modpack team) then why should people make new mods? Why should they update existing ones? What's the point in making something if kids are just going to steal it off you because it may not be legally defensible.

It's not like you're involuntarily paying for mods. There is no service required yet a service is being provided anyway. If people get defensive over things they put weeks/months in to, so be it. Respect their wishes IMO since without them that mod would not be there. If you can't come to terms you just shouldn't use their mod.

FTB's way of doing things is where they are aware they will make sure they have full 100% permission before moving forward. As emphasized here technic tend to push ahead before they are entirely given permission to, but cooperate(d in this case).

Edit in response Enigmius1: I fully understand your point but I don't agree with it. I am fully fine with people to be as draconian as they like. In the end if someone is willing to provide a similar mod without the attitude people will go there. If noone else will bother to make that mod then it's clear that the mod developer has a right to be defensive in the first place.
 

DanteGalileo

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Jul 29, 2019
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Understanding the reasoning is entirely irrelevant. That's where these whole discussions end up in debates and then the debates get ugly. There's a right way and a wrong way to do things. If you steal half my sandwich at lunch, I'm not legally entitled to punch you in the face. That, of course, was an analogy, and according to rule #17 of "How to Argue Poorly on the Internet", someone previously uninvolved in the conversation must now enter the discussion to split hairs over the analogy because they don't fully understand what an analogy is.

I'd be that guy but... Well, ok. I will.

This is the entire thing that puts IP on such shaky ground from a philosophical point of view. Even if I "steal half of your sandwich," you still have all of your sandwich.
 

Enigmius1

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Edit in response Enigmius1: I fully understand your point but I don't agree with it. I am fully fine with people to be as draconian as they like. In the end if someone is willing to provide a similar mod without the attitude people will go there. If noone else will bother to make that mod then it's clear that the mod developer has a right to be defensive in the first place.

If that's your response then no, you didn't understand my point. I said people have a right to be draconian. It's not about how stupid their rules are. It's about how badly they behave when someone doesn't respect their rules. And the community doesn't give them any reason to improve their behavior. "I like your mod so I'll nuzzle your nuts through hell and back!" The community needs a spine of its own. I'd back my friends through stupid shit when I was in elementary school, too. Then we get older and it changes from, "lolol that lady was so mad when you punched her baby wanna go play nintendo?!?!" to "I'll see what I can do to help you out but from one friend to another, you really need to get your shit together and knock it off."
 

raiju

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Jul 29, 2019
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If a mod developer starts trying to do something I deem out of line, I may feel the same. Currently nothing of the sort has happened though. What is happening right now is people no better than pirates are telling a developer to go screw himself because he wants to protect his property.

Need I remind you Covert both attempted private communication first, before leaving a public notice (a method of proof and nothing more) on their forums so that he couldn't be ignored. His actions were entirely appropriate and in line with your "having a spine" mentality.
 
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