Seeking Botania feedback

Discussion in 'Mod Discussion' started by Vazkii, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. Vazkii

    Vazkii New Member

    Hi. You probably have no idea what botania is because it's only in unstable and TPPI, if that's the case, go do something else I guess.

    Still reading? Cool.
    I'd like some feedback on botania, the feedback I've heard so far has been really sparse and I haven't been able to make much out of it other than the fact that it needs more ways to make mana (which is annoying because I'm an uncreative twat). So if you have any, feel free to throw it in my general direction via the likes of this thread.

    o7
     
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  2. Qazplm601

    Qazplm601 Lord of the Tumbleweeds

    hmmmm, maybe a flower that turns food to mana? a "composbloom" or something?
     
  3. Not_Steve

    Not_Steve Over-Achiever

    Mastcarnation?
     
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  4. Vazkii

    Vazkii New Member

    I actually would much rather have an assessment of the features currently in the mod rather than suggestions on new ones, if possible.
     
    CatDany likes this.
  5. MrPeach774

    MrPeach774 New Member

    The main issue with this mod is RNG and grind. If I can't find a diamond or enderpearl i can't really do much. If i want to play peaceful with gregtech i have to find diamonds or not play with it. The other issue is that things like the runic altar can get annoying crafting over and over again, especially since you need runes for advanced everything.
     
  6. SoniEx2

    SoniEx2 New Member

    I would like to see manastone... a manastone spreader reacts to redstone signal and requires a manastone detector on its path... manastone strength goes from 0 to 255 instead of redstone's 0 to 15... (and to convert redstone to manastone: redstone 0 = manastone 0, 1 = 17, 2 = 34, 3 = 51, 4 = 68, ..., 8 = 136, ..., 15 = 255, basically manastone strength = redstone strength * 17, and redstone strength = ceil(manastone strength / 17) (yep, round up))

    Also find a way to turn dayblooms into low-tier mana pools? (aka, a mana pool that can only be used for crafting/can't be used with spreaders etc)
     
  7. MrPeach774

    MrPeach774 New Member

    You clearly ccan't read, first your suggestions are not wanted. Vazkii said FEEDBACK. Second, what the hell would dayblooms have to do with manapools? They generate mana not store it.
     
  8. SoniEx2

    SoniEx2 New Member

    https://twitter.com/Vazkii/status/492500328701767680

    Aka, get rid of dayblooms, remove their buffers (replace them with a progress bar... or use the current buffer renderer as a progress bar), make it so you have to wait for your stuff to craft... (they would eat a single item, fill a "buffer", craft, drop the crafted item, then eat the next item, etc...)
     
  9. GreatOrator

    GreatOrator New Member

    Well, my two cents. PLyed a little, watch others play on youtube and found it very interesting (why I plan on including it in a future modpack). The biggest issue i see, if you are a person who like automation botania does not have enough of it by itself. That does not mean anything bad (forestry bees are the same way without the add-ons and they are fun for me as well) but a little automation should be provided.

    My only real gripe is that it requires a lot of tossing items on to something or into something with no easy way to say put a stack of living stone down to craft stuff or same for petals and seeds...so maybe some way to do bulk crafting I guess I am asking for. (even if there is a loss, like 10% of total items as a cost to do bulk amounts)
     
  10. ShneekeyTheLost

    ShneekeyTheLost Too Much Free Time

    My initial impressions from playing around with it in 1.7.10 in my alpha-dev pack build:

    * Default flower generation is rather... plentiful. I ended up dialing back the spawn rate.
    * Lexica Botania is In Game Documentation done RIGHT! Probably the single best implementation of in game documentation that exists. HUGE kudos for this. Better even than TiCo due to lack of book-spam. Even the upgrade is just a single tome. Being able to cross-reference is simply amazing. Can't fanboy about this hard enough.
    *Unique and interesting item creation mechanic. Tossing stuff in an item that really can't be automated very well gives it a somewhat 'this is magic, tech don't work' vibe, which actually works for it quite well. Would prefer the Ruinic Altar be a bit better at grabbing the living stone I toss it to make things with.
    * Baubles are nice without being ZOMGWTFPWN.

    Eight out of ten chisels, would include in mod pack.
     
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  11. Arouka

    Arouka New Member

    First of all, I'd just like to say that I absolutely love this mod. It is within my top three most entertaining experiences I've had in nodded Minecraft, alongside Thaumcraft and Witchery. In any case, I'll lend three bits of feedback.

    1. As mentioned above, certain processes like rune or living wood/stone creation can get grindy after a while, and you have to do them a lot.
    2. Quite a few people I've noticed have used massive clusters of certain types of flowers like endoflames or thermalies to generate mass amount of materials rather easily. Perhaps diminishing returns on more flowers, to encourage more varied power gens?
    3.The enchanting system is really, really powerful. Almost too powerful. After getting a decent amount of flower gen, enchanting costs become somewhat trivial. That, mixed with the fact of not using books, and you can have conflicting enchants on the same armor using this setup, allows you to get some really powerful armor rather quickly ( I had enchanted manasteel armor that made me virtually invincible by mid game). This seems to me to break the balance of what otherwise is an impressively balanced mod.

    Other than that, I can't think of any other major complaints.
     
  12. Succubism

    Succubism New Member

    Low tier mana pools sound cool, actually. But the kind that Vaz described, not this daybloom nonsense.
     
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  13. asiekierka

    asiekierka Over-Achiever Mod Developer

    YES.
     
  14. RealSketch

    RealSketch New Member

    I actually like the direction Botania is heading, as of now it seems you are focusing on mystical tools Vazkii, which I find very interesting and I can't wait too see more!
    I would like some more Mana Pool attachments, maybe ones that allow the Mana Pool to suck in Mana? Although that woulkd defeat the purpose of Mana Spreaders...
    TBH I have no ideas really, but yours are great!

    Overall Vazkii, this is really the best mod for MC I have ever seen! (@SatanicSanta and @Padfoote are going to slap me now.)
    Also, keep adding content, I want the Botania navbox to be bigger than the one for Witchery...
     
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  15. Succubism

    Succubism New Member

    Let me elaborate, now that I've had more time to think about it.

    I acknowledge the style that Botania goes for with regards to having no numbers with regards to mana storage, generation, transfer, etc but when it comes to the mana pool the major flaw with this is that minute mana costs, like mana item making (petals, diamond, pearls, etc) isn't noticeable. But then what's the problem? Surely if the cost is so minute, surely it's not worth worrying about?

    Well if the mana pool was supposedly "end-game" or a later tier pool as Vaz was thinking of doing then you'd be right, it wouldn't be worth thinking about, but early game when you're shlepping with dayblooms and nightshades and your pool's contents are so tiny you don't know if what you've got is enough even when you whack it with a wand? Then I think a smaller pool, which would register smaller amounts of mana more efficiently, would be more welcomed. This goes doubly for rune crafting with infusion.

    So my thoughts are this, two lesser tier mana pools, one with maybe a cap of a quarter of the current pool's contents and the next with half.

    The quarter capped pool wouldn't be able to hold open an Alfheim portal or create terrasteel, due to the mana required and the supposed "mana transferal" needed for the Alfheim portal, however it will be able to (in theory) register smaller rates of mana gain and loss from lesser generating flowers and mana infusion with diamonds, pearls and etc. It would be made using 5 livingrock, like the current mana pool.

    The half capped pool would be able to hold open an Alfheim portal, perhaps not as efficiently with a slightly greater cost to keep the portal open and to open it in the first place, however it wouldn't be able to create a Terrasteel with a beacon. Perhaps it's contents being capped just short of "half" of the current mana pool's contents to stop people from using it to create terrasteel. Perhaps this pool will have the ability to use the Alchemical Catalyst where the lesser pool didn't? Crafted perhaps with a mana diamond or something? Runes?

    Finally, the highest tier, which would have the abilities of the current mana pool. Crafted with elvish materials, perhaps their livingrock equivalent? Livingwood? Elementium?

    Just a thought, anyway.
     
  16. Dylan4ever

    Dylan4ever New Member

    This is a magnificent idea. I have also been wanting a smaller pool, as the amount of storage the current pool gives is excessive compared to its cost. I very much wish for Vazkii to implement something like this.
     
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  17. RealSketch

    RealSketch New Member

    I'm not keen on this...Elven Knowledge should be end-game...thus allowing long mod progression. Only the highest tier should be able to keep the portal open.
    Yah, this sounds good? But what other features would it have making it a higher tier? Maybe crafted with Dreamwood?
     
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  18. Succubism

    Succubism New Member

    The way I see it, the portal is easier to open/maintain than creating Terrasteel, due to the amount of sheer mana needed to create it. Perhaps it's not harder, just a longer process? Regardless, I could see you opening a portal before you have a terrasteel setup.
    When I mentioned Livingwood, I meant the Elvish equivalent of this, I just couldn't recall the name.
     
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  19. RealSketch

    RealSketch New Member

    Thanks for *tears*...using...the*crying*...wiki! *bursts into tears*
     
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  20. Succubism

    Succubism New Member

    I'm sorry! D: Don't hate meeee!
     
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