Rainbow Forest in FTB Monster is like hitting the jackpot

[Hoff]

So if i run a server the way i want, its not ok, but mod devs are supposed to be able to make a mod however they want?

Lathanael covered this well.

The problem are Server Admins which advertise their server with running Monster for example and do not mention what they have disabled or changed and introduce rules after the server started without consulting their community. Or even worse hide certain blocks/machines/items behind a donator fee or even monthly subscription.

As well no one forces you to use a mod but by the same token no one forces you to play on a server so both points are a bit moot.

Which is totally true. people can voice their opinions though, and a smart developer should listen. If you want people to play it, listen to feedback, as long as it is presented in a polite way of course. If you don't care, and just want to stick to your vision, that's fine too.

Money seeking devs are generally the ones that compromise their own vision for what others want. Smart devs find a ground in between where they can satisfy what people want as much as possible but also adhere to their own vision.

Now tell me why this make sense, but apparently you can criticize someone like me FOR PAYING FOR MY OWN SERVER and doing WHAT I WANT WITH IT?

As long as you tell people what to expect there is nothing to be criticized.

I clicked another one, removing enchantments. One guy said he wanted to remove protection IV, but keep lower level protection enchantments.

What happens is if someone comes here and says they would like to make the game harder, people often say that the game was not MEANT to be hard. "Vanilla is easy too, its how the game is, its not supposed to be a combat game"

And in the same breath, people will say that minecraft is a sandbox and we can all play the game how we want.

But if someone wants a plugin to remove Protection 4 to make combat a teeny tiny bit more challenging, they're a sadist.

So I've said this before but; if the vanilla game of minecraft does not offer a balance you prefer(this only really applies to those that think vanilla MC is overpowered in certain aspects) don't expect many people to go along with your preferred balance. Mind you I understand turning to mods to find something closer to what you do want but most already do not want that from mods. Most people that get into modded MC already enjoyed vanilla MC balance wise or other since vanilla at one point did not even have survival as an option. Thus most mods that are made simply add on to vanilla MC and generally make it even easier than vanilla or simply extend the mechanics of it. Because of this those that already seek a nerfed style of vanilla should not turn to mainstream mods at all if they wish to satisfy that desire. Most mainstream mods simply won't cater to that whim because the audience is going to be relatively small for reasons I already mentioned.

 

[AlanEsh]

on cue, zorn!

 

[Lathanael]

As well no one forces you to use a mod but by the same token no one forces you to play on a server so both points are a bit moot.

Often those servers specifically target those blocks that every sane person wants to use in modded gameplay or use some blocks to gate the entry into many mods via recipe changes(e.g. change all auto mining blocks/items to require one certain thing only available with payment). Which is not necessarily a bad thing if you are made aware that these things exist on the server. But more often than not such things are not advertised and conveniently hidden away to make people start on the server and play for some days to establish a basic setup and shove the fee things into their face just as they progress.
As i said i am with any mod pack author wanting editorial right to create a modpack to their liking. But i am against any form of "pay to play properly" attitude. Unfortunately the same tools the first group needs can be used by the second to enforce their attitude.

Otherwise i have to agree with the rest of your post except the balance part as that is HIGHLY subjective and thus never the same for 2 different people. There are enough players out there who want that challenge in MC(if not packs like BnB and MF2 and the mods they use would not exist)

 

[Hoff]

Otherwise i have to agree with the rest of your post except the balance part as that is HIGHLY subjective and thus never the same for 2 different people. There are enough players out there who want that challenge in MC(if not packs like BnB and MF2 and the mods they use would not exist)

I'd agree on the challenge but generally vanilla aspects that are nerfed are nerfed for the purpose of expanding upon it. MF2 for example basically removes vanilla tools and makes unprocessed food worthless. These are both direct vanilla nerfs but to the ends of adding in a HUGE amount of depth in terms of food and food creation. The same is done with tools through TiC and Iguana's.

Again I can agree that there are a number of players out there that want a challenge that is nerfed compared to vanilla MC but again I highly doubt they will ever become a large portion of the mainstream players or ever really considered to fall among the mainstream. Generally the reason packs work out so well is because they have a "this" level of balance that most people can regulate or deregulate themselves to be able to play together at their own ideal balance with others playing at theirs.

 

[keybounce]

Pfft. People asking for a nerf w/o a config are bothersome. I prefer configs for all the things just because two different modpacks usually need two different forms of balance.

I agree. Completely.

"In our case, we think it (Rotarycraft) needs a balance pass. If you put it next to TE3, no one will ever use it in the long run."

All that means is that TE3 needs another look.

(At the moment, I'm not using RotaryCraft only because of the bandwidth issue. I'll take another look at it when that's solved.)

====

Does the rainbow forest make things too easy? With the current "Drop dyes" instead of "Drop special items", not really. No hostile mobs? Mushroom islands. Lots of mobs? You probably have a farm anyways, and if you didn't, now you do.

Can your computer not handle the rainbow forest the way it is now? Why not be able to alter how it works then? (Oh, and stay away from that single biome rainbow forest age I ran into .

Should Vanilla be made harder? If no, look at magic farm. Look at Iguana's Tweaks. Look at Hunger Overhaul. (Heck, look at TFC, and then look away .

Should Vanilla be made easier? If no, look at TiC, or all the massive automation systems.

Is food too easy/worthless? HO, Pam's, etc.
Is vanilla ore too easy/worthless? ...

My answer to that is COG plus tweaks. (Normal COG is about the same level as vanilla).
My goal isn't to make ores hard/rare, just require some work/effort. Eliminate the huge oversupply that vanilla gives you, without making you short supplied. (And yet, if you know mystcraft/COG, you can make your supply worlds.)

===

Is a beacon overpowered?
Are 5 beacons sharing a base all maxed out overpowered?
Is something that gives you double normal movement speed, removes most hill slowdowns, lets you avoid most mobs just by walking away, and doesn't use any hunger in the process overpowered?

Steve is a demi-god. Some people want to make him more of a full god. Some people want to play "creative with combat" (just under full god-like/creative mode). And some people want a survival challenge.

I don't think that beacons are excessive given that you have to kill withers.
I don't think that a horse is inherently OP, but I think it implies that the overall game balance needs another look.

 

[zorn]

As long as you tell people what to expect there is nothing to be criticized.

yes, this is why his Sadistic comment is unfair. That's my whole point.

So I've said this before but; if the vanilla game of minecraft does not offer a balance you prefer(this only really applies to those that think vanilla MC is overpowered in certain aspects) don't expect many people to go along with your preferred balance. Mind you I understand turning to mods to find something closer to what you do want but most already do not want that from mods. Most people that get into modded MC already enjoyed vanilla MC balance wise or other since vanilla at one point did not even have survival as an option. Thus most mods that are made simply add on to vanilla MC and generally make it even easier than vanilla or simply extend the mechanics of it. Because of this those that already seek a nerfed style of vanilla should not turn to mainstream mods at all if they wish to satisfy that desire. Most mainstream mods simply won't cater to that whim because the audience is going to be relatively small for reasons I already mentioned.

I dont expect people to go along with my balance. this thread isnt about my personal playstyle though, its about how its fair of me to set up my server how I like it. That is what Reika is saying. I wouldnt call him names for making lapis fall from trees or say that he was 'wrong'. If a player said the same thing to him about his mod, people would be all over them. Mod devs dont get a free pass. Dont tell players they are sadistic for wanting to play the game their own way.

Mainstream mods definitely can make the game harder than vanilla. Have you played Magicfarm2?

 

[Hoff]

yes, this is why his Sadistic comment is unfair. That's my whole point.



I dont expect people to go along with my balance. this thread isnt about my personal playstyle though, its about how its fair of me to set up my server how I like it. That is what Reika is saying. I wouldnt call him names for making lapis fall from trees or say that he was 'wrong'. If a player said the same thing to him about his mod, people would be all over them. Mod devs dont get a free pass. Dont tell players they are sadistic for wanting to play the game their own way.

Mainstream mods definitely can make the game harder than vanilla. Have you played Magicfarm2?

He thinks playing that way is sadistic; so? You think the way he has his mods designed is easy(I assume); so? The problem is server owners that force it upon others which Lathanael did a perfect job of explaining.

MF2 isn't mainstream. For every 1 MF2 server there are 100 Monster and another 100 DW20. It is also cherry picked mods that are able to be made "harder". I also explained before that the things it does nerf it does so for a reason. Food is nerfed to expand upon the food mechanic. Tools are nerfed to expand upon the tool mechanic of TiC.

 

[Reika]

(At the moment, I'm not using RotaryCraft only because of the bandwidth issue. I'll take another look at it when that's solved.)

That was fixed in v18.


Does the rainbow forest make things too easy? With the current "Drop dyes" instead of "Drop special items", not really. No hostile mobs? Mushroom islands. Lots of mobs? You probably have a farm anyways, and if you didn't, now you do.[/quote]
I cannot help but notice a lot of this is in direct opposition to what you were saying some weeks ago about the biome.

 

[zorn]

He thinks playing that way is sadistic; so? You think the way he has his mods designed is easy(I assume); so? The problem is server owners that force it upon others which Lathanael did a perfect job of explaining.

MF2 isn't mainstream. For every 1 MF2 server there are 100 Monster and another 100 DW20. It is also cherry picked mods that are able to be made "harder". I also explained before that the things it does nerf it does so for a reason. Food is nerfed to expand upon the food mechanic. Tools are nerfed to expand upon the tool mechanic of TiC.

No he said server owners who force players to play their way are sadistic. he never said anything about people tricking others into playing that way with donations, that was Lathanael who said 'its fine if server owners do whatever they want, except those that hide the changes and then try to get people to donate to get the items that were removed'.

Reika just showed examples of people wanting to nerf things, and called server owners who forced people to play that way 'sadistic'.

 

[Hoff]

Reika just showed examples of people wanting to nerf things, and called server owners who forced people to play that way 'sadistic'.

To this I again present: So?

To people, that are from his view sadistic, see him as a pansy. So? Their just words to describe relative perspective of balance. Some might have reasoning behind using words like sadistic or pansy such as wanting to feel justified in what they do or wanting to feel as if they are a "better" person. The reasons are varied and not all of them are necessarily bad. You shouldn't let others negative opinions have any barring on you.

(That wasn't specifically at you but a vague "you" to anyone that reads it)

 

[Reika]

No he said server owners who force players to play their way are sadistic. he never said anything about people tricking others into playing that way with donations, that was Lathanael who said 'its fine if server owners do whatever they want, except those that hide the changes and then try to get people to donate to get the items that were removed'.

Reika just showed examples of people wanting to nerf things, and called server owners who forced people to play that way 'sadistic'.

Agreed - this was my entire point. If you want to collect a bunch of people who like this sort of gameplay and install these plugins, there is nothing wrong with that. But I have seen too many instances were these plugins were added either mid-life to a server or whose installation was hidden.
The response is always the same: "Well go find another server then". This is cold comfort when you already spent 6 months on the server or have friends there or previously liked the management. And in modded servers, it is even worse, because it is essentially impossible to find another server with exactly the same mods and important config settings.

 

[zorn]

Agreed - this was my entire point. If you want to collect a bunch of people who like this sort of gameplay and install these plugins, there is nothing wrong with that. But I have seen too many instances were these plugins were added either mid-life to a server or whose installation was hidden.
The response is always the same: "Well go find another server then". This is cold comfort when you already spent 6 months on the server or have friends there or previously liked the management. And in modded servers, it is even worse, because it is essentially impossible to find another server with exactly the same mods and important config settings.

Ok well then I misunderstood. You noted a bunch of plugins and never said anything about people changing things mid stream. My mistake then.

And you mentioned the list of plugins and said how they were popular - not that people added them in the middle. hmm

Trust me, there is nothing in the game that these people do not find overpowered.

You know how I am often taking about "unplayable means fun" types who force their entire server to adhere to the admin's sadistic idea of fun? These are the kind of people I mean. And these plugins are popular. I have been banned from many servers for violating these sorts of "no farming/no iron/no whatever" rules, too.

Sounds to me like its all about nerfing and servers that do things like.... that list of plugins you posted. no diamonds, no farming, etc.

not one word in any of those posts about server owners changing things after 6 months. Huh. Oh well.

 

[Eyamaz]

First thing I do when I join a server is to ask so many questions:

Limited Map?
Pvp on/off?
Server difficulty setting?
Banned items?
Griefing policy?
Website?

Then I go visit the website and read up on what's what, then at that point you tend to find out certain stuff maybe donator only. I also look at the donator packages as I refuse to play on any server showing a "pay to win" donator policy. Don't get me wrong I do and have donated to servers in the past but that's because I wanted to, not to buy things to play with.

Hence to say I tend to only go on open servers now if I want a quick blast at a different mod pack say, just as a taster.

I like "hard mode" but don't confuse hard with tedious (watching Greg?), mobs on hard is a must for me because anything lower you may as well play with no mobs (which is silly and have come across servers with mobs turned off ).

I would play Blood N Bones more often but not being able to see ANYTHING at night makes it pointless (or being able to sleep), it was a great idea and was looking forward to streaming BnB but having to cut out every night is something I can do with out.

You can disable it in the Random Things config (the darkness.)

 

[zorn]

To this I again present: So?

To people, that are from his view sadistic, see him as a pansy. So? Their just words to describe relative perspective of balance. Some might have reasoning behind using words like sadistic or pansy such as wanting to feel justified in what they do or wanting to feel as if they are a "better" person. The reasons are varied and not all of them are necessarily bad. You shouldn't let others negative opinions have any barring on you.

(That wasn't specifically at you but a vague "you" to anyone that reads it)

So you're saying if I came into thsi forum and said that people who used mods that made things super efficient and easy were pansies... you think that's ok?

And if they got angry, I should say "Hoff said that my negative opinion shouldnt have any bearing on you!"

Can i quote you on this? Cause im going to put it in my signature.

In big bold letters.

And colors.

Flashing colors if it's possible.

and a siren sound. Loud.

Because last I knew, if I even breathed the word easy when commenting on the current packs, Id get a beating the likes of which even 18th century american slaves never endured. Ok maybe not that bad. But close. Very close. I still bear the scars. Oh the pain I suffered! Crack went the whip! "Tedium is not difficulty zorn!" Snap! "Minecraft is a sandbox! There is no right way to play!" Crrrackle! "Its a building game!' Pop! "I want a mod to do what it does and get out of my way!" (insert another synonym for crack or snap here). Your choice, have fun with it.

Im having a just a tiny bit of fun here sorry. This forum is so sensitive it's scary when it comes to people voicing their opinion on the game, and now people who can't even say "this stuff is easy and not challenging" are supposed to be able to call people here *pansies* and it's ok?

 

[DanteGalileo]

I don't think that those of us who like to play games on super-duper-hardcore mode mind being labeled a little weird. I just have a masochistic streak, I guess. I'm fine with it.

I just lose interest if there is not a real penalty for failure.

 

[Hoff]

So you're saying if I came into thsi forum and said that people who used mods that made things super efficient and easy were pansies... you think that's ok?

And if they got angry, I should say "Hoff said that my negative opinion shouldnt have any bearing on you!"

Can i quote you on this? Cause im going to put it in my signature.

In big bold letters.

And colors.

Flashing colors if it's possible.

and a siren sound. Loud.

Because last I knew, if I even breathed the word easy when commenting on the current packs, Id get a beating the likes of which even 18th century american slaves never endured. Ok maybe not that bad. But close. Very close. I still bear the scars. Oh the pain I suffered! Crack went the whip! "Tedium is not difficulty zorn!" Snap! "Minecraft is a sandbox! There is no right way to play!" Crrrackle! "Its a building game!' Pop! "I want a mod to do what it does and get out of my way!" (insert another synonym for crack or snap here). Your choice, have fun with it.

Im having a just a tiny bit of fun here sorry. This forum is so sensitive it's scary when it comes to people voicing their opinion on the game, and now people who can't even say "this stuff is easy and not challenging" are supposed to be able to call people here *pansies* and it's ok?

Please do quote me on it. Do bear in mind the rules here must also be maintained so any rule infraction as a result of that has no bearing on me. I have yet to see this "beating" you always reference. Seems to be more like self-hyped people disregarding your opinion like I stated you should do with Reika's.

Also the last 3 you mentioned have nothing wrong with them. Tedium can be difficulty if doing the same thing repeatedly is difficult for you. But the others; Minecraft is a sandbox game; there is no right way to play. It can be a building game. There's also nothing wrong with a mod being non-tiered and non-invasive and neither is desiring that.

In the end there's nothing wrong with you or anyone saying "this stuff is easy and not challenging" but no one is really going to give a damn that you think that because they don't think that. If they do give a damn and agree it's because they do think that. So get to know the ones that do because you're probably pretty similar gameplay wise.

 

[James_Grimm]

*blink*

Did you just compare being razzed on the internet to being whipped?

You really do like being provocative, I'm guessing?
Ah the internet.

 

[Qazplm601]

this is quite a bit late but i can see how "some" of the things in riekas block 'o links could be useful in cerrtain situations.

 

[b0bst3r]

You can disable it in the Random Things config (the darkness.)

Ahh nice thanks

 

[Eyamaz]

Ahh nice thanks

Won't really be necessary next update though. AtomicStryker has given me permissions for Dynamic Lights to help players alleviate the darkness. Personally, the awesome ambiance between DL and hardcore darkness is mindblowingly amazing.