In your next Direwolf20 build, will you bother with IC2?

[KirinDave]

Not sure if anyone has caught a glimpse of my own house on ForgeCraft, but I have way more IC2 stuff than TE stuff.

The mods play well together. I use TE for ore processing, because frankly it doesn't take 6 hours to pulverize a stack of ore - it takes about 5 minutes. I use IC2 for all of the crazy OP stuff that it adds - power generation, UU matter, tools, and armor. With that setup, I need more IC2 than TE, since a couple of TE machines and a tiny bit of automation works.

I actually agree. I have a HUGE IC2 room that's just used for making UU matter and diamonds and was my q-suit workshop. My actual multi-quarry ore processor is 4 pulverizers, an infernal furnace, a few filters and sorting machines, and one outlet that leads to a recycler farm.

Still, I gave my Q-suit away. I miss the status locking of the helmet, but the mobility and improved durability of these new powersuits is not something I can give up anymore. Basically life without perma haste, perma nightvision, hover, max armor and ~90m/s flight is not endgame for me anymore. And it'll only get better.

 

[Lambert2191]

Saying all this other stuff that's just obviously not true

The thing is though Kirin... it isn't untrue. IC2 machines can be upgraded to be far faster than both TE and FZ. That's not untrue, that's a fact. And yes it may not be the most efficient of systems but for some people that doesn't matter. Some people don't smelt all their ores at the time of mining, or they might need coal dust and macerating coal isn't automated for them, so having a superfast machine would actually matter.
I know I like having my machines be fast, despite everything being automated anyway, some people are like that, and whether you think it irrational or not, it is just as valid a playstyle as using the slower, but potentially higher yielding TE machines.

 

[Dravarden]

In my opinion IC2 just adds some pretty armor, a new weird energy system and some fast machines. No needed for me at all.

 

[KirinDave]

The thing is though Kirin... it isn't untrue. IC2 machines can be upgraded to be far faster than both TE and FZ. That's not untrue, that's a fact. And yes it may not be the most efficient of systems but for some people that doesn't matter. Some people don't smelt all their ores at the time of mining, or they might need coal dust and macerating coal isn't automated for them, so having a superfast machine would actually matter.
I know I like having my machines be fast, despite everything being automated anyway, some people are like that, and whether you think it irrational or not, it is just as valid a playstyle as using the slower, but potentially higher yielding TE machines.

Individual machines can be faster, but ore processing systems handing things in bulk? You set a processing rate and barring startup costs you can build off any tech base to meet that need. I keep a super over clocked set of machines too, they're just demonstrably not necessary to make an ore processing system. That's what I'm objecting to.

 

[Lambert2191]

Individual machines can be faster, but ore processing systems handing things in bulk? You set a processing rate and barring startup costs you can build off any tech base to meet that need. I keep a super over clocked set of machines too, they're just demonstrably not necessary to make an ore processing system. That's what I'm objecting to.

If someone decides to go through the IC2 route, and has a very advanced EU network, why not use the slightly less innefficient and faster IC2 machines rather than building a whole other power network to deal with MJs? What is so hard to understand that speed sometimes does mean a lot to some people?

 

[baw179]

All I'm saying is that IC2 is definitely less integrated into the DW20 pack than other packs maintained. Most every other mod works with a unified power system and has superior automation mechanics.



Even barring the question why this matters, it's not true. I wish you'd stop putting words in my mouth. IC2 is great, and in Mindcrack with Advanced Machines & Gregtech I think you get something really amazing. Something I'm considering integrating into a fork of DW20 just to balance it out a little on my server.



Please stop with the myth that IC2 processing pipelines are always faster than TE/TC/FZ processing pipelines. It is distracting and immaterial to this conversation. Please. Just stop it. Given sufficient resource investment all 4 methods can be fast enough to handle any amount of incoming material without jamming or backing up. And while IC2 machines can achieve speed with slightly less investment; by the time you actually have the 3+ large area quarries or extra-tall frame bore running nonstop, resource allocation is not an issue and you can build your ore processing pipeline to arbitrary specifications anyways.



Well, it's not just the 1 extra gate. You also need to be careful to keep your machines aligned on the same grid because if you stagger them a wooden extract pipe could connect to two machines inadvertently. And you're constrained on which sides to connect to. You basically get less freedom in the design.

Your answer to the question is, "No. I like IC2 and I am glad it is in the DW20 pack." Saying all this other stuff that's just obviously not true only serves to turn this thread into the Macerator v. Pulverizer thread. We don't need 2 of those.

Kirin, I enjoy your posts, but please don't start back-pedaling when you don't get the responses you were hoping for . I refer you back to the closing lines of your OP :

Am I missing something? At this point it seems like the only really neat thing IC2 offers is cheap, explosion resistant building materials and very convenient tools for making complex structures. Its autominer is nice, but not super necessary. The IC2 machines can be faster but they're obviously not "necessary". What's left for it in the DW20 pack

You carefully stated that you didn't want it to be another discussion about macerator vs pulveriser but then finished by leaving a piece of bait on the floor by stating the only thing IC2 is good for is x, y and z, conveniently leaving out any mention of automatic ore processing. Whether intentional or not, it was guaranteed to get a rise from the IC2 fans. The simple fact of the matter is that IC2 does work very well for auto ore processing and that is reason enough for it to be in the mod pack. We can argue semantics all day long about how x processes ores 0.02 seconds faster than y and how one system takes up a few more spaces than another, but in the grand scheme of things none of it matters. People like different things for different reasons and no amount of you continuing to tell me about "freedom of design" with TE machines and extra ore outputs will ever change my mind . It'd be like me telling you that you should stop using TE because your 10 pulverisers that are needed to keep up with the speed of 1 overclocked macerator take up too much space and you should compact everything and be more space efficient! I simply wouldn't dream of doing that because it's your choice how you play the game.

 

[DoctorOr]

You carefully stated that you didn't want it to be another discussion about macerator vs pulveriser but then finished by leaving a piece of bait on the floor by stating the only thing IC2 is good for is x, y and z, conveniently leaving out any mention of automatic ore processing.

Except claims of speed as necessary for "automatic ore processing" are false. You only need speed when you're standing next to the machine waiting for it to process. Otherwise, _even_within_the_IC2_design_ it's more effective to add more machines than add overclockers (once you get past the 1 or 2 overclocker rounding error stage)

It's also been shown elsewhere that barring some silly 50 dense ores mystworld, the idea that you would need either a 16 overclocked macerator or ten pulverizers is faulty thinking, at best.

(Nevermind the 3689EU/t cost of that macerator)

 

[Guswut]

Except claims of speed as necessary for "automatic ore processing" are false.

Didn't you just read what he posted? You are ENTIRELY off topic, in a way that KirinDave (originally) did not want. Let's TRY and get back on topic!

~~~

Without IC2, there would be no nuclear reactors, which means no nukes. That would be fairly horrible, I'd say, as I love nukes.

 

[MilConDoin]

Without IC2, there would be no nuclear reactors, which means no nukes. That would be fairly horrible, I'd say, as I love nukes.

Without a nuke, we wouldn't have gotten this amusing fail story: http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/epic-fail-stories.7840/page-5#post-142637
Are there better arguments for using IC²? I think not

 

[Guswut]

Without a nuke, we wouldn't have gotten this amusing fail story: http://forum.feed-the-beast.com/threads/epic-fail-stories.7840/page-5#post-142637
Are there better arguments for using IC²? I think not

Hahahahahaha!

Perhaps another mod that adds more explosives? ICBM would be nice.

 

[KirinDave]

You carefully stated that you didn't want it to be another discussion about macerator vs pulveriser but then finished by leaving a piece of bait on the floor by stating the only thing IC2 is good for is x, y and z, conveniently leaving out any mention of automatic ore processing.

I listed what it is uniquely good at. Irreplaceably so. Other people have pointed out the Q-suit status lock, mining laser, and crops are similarly in that category or not. If this could have been worded slightly better, then I am sorry I did not word it so. I've explicitly stated my positive opinions on IC2 and its ecosystem many times and I did not mean to goad you.

Whether intentional or not, it was guaranteed to get a rise from the IC2 fans. The simple fact of the matter is that IC2 does work very well for auto ore processing and that is reason enough for it to be in the mod pack.

If you're spoiling for a fight over this, there are people who will happy oblige you. I've responded patiently as you continue to project arguments onto me from that other thread. I will not do so any further.[DOUBLEPOST=1361663754][/DOUBLEPOST]

Hahahahahaha!

Perhaps another mod that adds more explosives? ICBM would be nice.

ICBMs is amazing. I wish the UE automation and building frameworks were as well developed as their power and weaponry mods, because there is a lot to like in that world.

 

[Guswut]

ICBMs is amazing. I wish the UE automation and building frameworks were as well developed as their power and weaponry mods, because there is a lot to like in that world.

Agreed. Which is another reason that I really wish someone would make a unified power API, have it deal with seemingly rational/logical/"fair" balances between EU/MJ/BT/FE/etc, and then watch as we can work with a single power system. This is what I was hoping UE would be. I've still got hope, too!

 

[Poppycocks]

Agreed. Which is another reason that I really wish someone would make a unified power API, have it deal with seemingly rational/logical/"fair" balances between EU/MJ/BT/FE/etc, and then watch as we can work with a single power system. This is what I was hoping UE would be. I've still got hope, too!

Oh yeah, I'm still hoping all the main mods will jump on that bandwagon. More or less. I'd still like to keep a .. hm... mechanical power grid sepparate. However I'd also like if the machines required the .. hm.. "right" kind of power. Mechanical for pulverizers for example. Electrical for "powered" furnaces.

I'd also very like it if an engine pumping into a wooden pipe wouldn't make a laser. Which can stay in place. And explode. That would be great.

 

[Guswut]

Oh yeah, I'm still hoping all the main mods will jump on that bandwagon. More or less. I'd still like to keep a .. hm... mechanical power grid sepparate. However I'd also like if the machines required the .. hm.. "right" kind of power. Mechanical for pulverizers for example. Electrical for "powered" furnaces.

I'd also very like it if an engine pumping into a wooden pipe wouldn't make a laser. Which can stay in place. And explode. That would be great.

So, in short, a logical unified power system. Yeah, I think we can all agree that would be awesome, indeed.

 

[KirinDave]

I'd also very like it if an engine pumping into a wooden pipe wouldn't make a laser. Which can stay in place. And explode. That would be great.

Long, long ago I made a helium neon laser fire from mechanical effort. It was part of a science project in high school to demonstrate electromagnetic effects WITH LAZORS.

 

[Poppycocks]

Long, long ago I made a helium neon laser fire from mechanical effort. It was part of a science project in high school to demonstrate electromagnetic effects WITH LAZORS.

Wait wait wait, like a Van de Graaff generator or something? No wait, that's static, you're saying electromagnetic field, I'm sure you did a dynamo, or something similar.

Cause that's still electricity.

 

[Ember Quill]

Long, long ago I made a helium neon laser fire from mechanical effort. It was part of a science project in high school to demonstrate electromagnetic effects WITH LAZORS.

My high school experience was tragically devoid of LAZORS.

You have no idea how jealous I am.

 

[Quesenek]

In my current playthrough I'm only using the barebones minimum of IC2 that I have too like compressors and extractors for example. Even then I'm using the same fuel for that as I am for MJ.
Using most of GT's machines seems not even worth it because I'm also not using a quarry/turtle to get mats for me so that would mean a ton of mining for me.

 

[Poppycocks]

In my current playthrough I'm only using the barebones minimum of IC2 that I have too like compressors and extractors for example. Even then I'm using the same fuel for that as I am for MJ.
Using most of GT's machines seems not even worth it because I'm also not using a quarry/turtle to get mats for me so that would mean a ton of mining for me.

I'm doing nigh-zero mining.

The centrifuge and the Electrolyzer are mighty devices indeed.

(you can centrifuge lava for tin, copper, electrum and tungsten ), then further centrifuge electrum for silver and gold. You can also electrolyze obsidian for iron and silicone.

You can make diamonds out of blaze rods or coal (wither skeletons). A witch spawner can supply you with redstone and glowstone.

Aaand there's a bunch of similar... hm, workarounds.

The only things you really have to mine something for are lapis, chrome, titanium, uranium.. and a few other things, yeah. But the things you use most of are fairly easy to acquire without mining.

 

[Quesenek]

I'm doing nigh-zero mining.

The centrifuge and the Electrolyzer are mighty devices indeed.

(you can centrifuge lava for tin, copper, electrum and tungsten ), then further centrifuge electrum for silver and gold. You can also electrolyze obsidian for iron and silicone.

You can make diamonds out of blaze rods or coal (wither skeletons). A witch spawner can supply you with redstone and glowstone.

Aaand there's a bunch of similar... hm, workarounds.

The only things you really have to mine something for are lapis, chrome, titanium, uranium.. and a few other things, yeah. But the things you use most of are fairly easy to acquire without mining.

That's pretty crazy. I'm strictly doing the mining by hand (Almost. I have a turtle making the 1x2 tunnel for me to mine off of lol) simply because I think having a quarry basically hand you the mats free of charge takes a lot of the challenge out of the game.
I find myself getting bored of worlds a lot faster when there is no challenge.
After I get my railroad setup and my boilers are all setup and running I'll only be getting mats through bees that can be gotten through them.