IC2 is slowly dying out ?

[Petrus]

Nonsense, it's nomore so than Redpower is/was.
Aaaaaaaccutally the multi-furnaces from Mekanism (NEI factory) are... surprisingly rare. The closest you see is the induction furnace (2 slots) and the new steam furnace.

Yep. Mekanism does have some innovations. Not necessarily vast amounts, even. But some.

If you make a Hydrogen generator you're going to be getting may times that in yield, on a system that can also operate perpetually without the sky, and that doesn't cost many times that. The balance for the Hydrogen (and bio-generator) is that they require extra automation and the Hydrogen reactor requires a steady "kicker" power source.

From six hydros with no other form of primer, I now read a consistent peak of 47 kW. I used to get 50 from two. A single hydro is technically perpetual, but only if you're not trying to do anything else with it. If you put a load on it, it will shut down fairly quickly. Hydros only need a seperate primer if you're using Fluid Mechanics' pump to feed them water; but these days I use an aqueous accumulator instead. You ideally also want at least 6-12 batteries with hydros, since there is a bug which causes them to empty their own internal capacitor first; and if they burn through all of their internal hydrogen as well as their internal power, they will require a restart from an external source.

That's a good balance point, because these generators are still relatively feeble compared to the Atomic options. But, and evidently everyone agrees this part was cribbed from IC2, the name of the game is "strong power generator risks mayhem." Atomic Science's output start at greater than 4x the other generators if you do it right (and there IS design space in AS reactors, they are multiblocks with mechanics, you can build weaker heat-stable reactors or stronger phased period reactors), and they don't cost even close to 4x. They just have to be treated very carefully because they will cheerfully render your base utterly uninhabitable if done wrong.

I am assuming you are referring to fission reactors, here. As far as I know, deuterium fusion has no risk of explosive containment failure at all. Well, let me put that another way. If you don't seal it properly, then yes, it will definitely make a mess; but only in terms of a large fire (not an explosion) and it also burns out very quickly, because it destroys the generator itself in the process. Fusion is, however, very expensive; I've only built a very basic 15 turbine setup in Creative, and could probably only just afford it currently in Survival, and it would utterly expend my current resources.

And the best power source in UE requires that you build a multi-chunk mutiblock structure and power it with a huge sum of power over many minutes (basically you have to have a fusion reactor the first time you do it, which is itself nearly the size of a full chunk) then produce output over many runs to make antimatter for a fulmination generator, which is basically all the power you need ever if you can get it running; so there is a high motivation for that crazy level of investment.

And here's the reason that works: UE fusion and atomic options are expensive, but they're not proportionally expensive to the output. Most IC2 options try to balance the output power to the cost of the generator on a nearly 1:1 basis (hence nuclear eats so many resources), but this is a mistake because the automation, maintenance and risk costs already help offset that.

I don't think anyone denies UE was inspired by IC2 and by Redpower2. I think, design-wise, it's gone pretty far beyond IC2 in a number of important areas. Unfortunately, code quality is not one of those areas.

Agreed. An early Mekanism update trashed the first save I played it on, and within said save, going into my chunk loaded hydro generator room routinely caused my framerate to go into single digits. There was also a sound bug for a while where I was nearly deafened as a result of the machine sound effects being up too high. It's better now, however; although I did ultimately end up abandoning the Fluid Mechanics pump, because it just wouldn't work consistently with anything.

Greg is doing his thing, and crazily enough he now has native compatibility with UE power.

Maybe I should give Greg a chance one of these days, if only to find out what all the fuss is about.

I've seen a couple of YouTube videos which imply that some Minecraft players are in love with GregTech with almost the same level of militancy and fanaticism as others seem to despise it. It is interesting, the degree of polarisation which that mod seems to have caused.

EE2 got hate for this because it was often lumped in with IC2 where it is demonstrably harder to get free stuff. The resulting social dynamics (a weirdly strong culture of Minecraft PvP and grief at the time) made the IC2 die-hards really mad.

Ah, yes. The joys of multiplayer social dynamics. I finally had a gutful of that after my time with World of Warcraft. Where Minecraft is concerned, I will remain happily buried underground in my single player bunker, like some blissfully schizotypal echidna.

 

[KirinDave]

From six hydros with no other form of primer, I now read a consistent peak of 47 kW. I used to get 50 from two. A single hydro is technically perpetual, but only if you're not trying to do anything else with it. If you put a load on it, it will shut down fairly quickly. Hydros only need a seperate primer if you're using Fluid Mechanics' pump to feed them water; but these days I use an aqueous accumulator instead. You ideally also want at least 6-12 batteries with hydros, since there is a bug which causes them to empty their own internal capacitor first; and if they burn through all of their internal hydrogen as well as their internal power, they will require a restart from an external source.

Yeah Im really excited to get into that middle tier and youtube it. I haven't seen many videos and they should be good. I'm excited to see how Mekanism works with Wind Power. it's new and you can't plug wires in yet. I wonder if that is their plan; you gotta shuffle the batteries.

I thnk IC2<->UE will remain problematic without a lot of coding work because IC2 cannot represent quantities small enough to quantify a joule, so they try to go the OTHER way instead.

I am assuming you are referring to fission reactors, here. As far as I know, deuterium fusion has no risk of explosive containment failure at all. Well, let me put that another way. If you don't seal it properly, then yes, it will definitely make a mess; but only in terms of a large fire (not an explosion) and it also burns out very quickly, because it destroys the generator itself in the process. Fusion is, however, very expensive; I've only built a very basic 15 turbine setup in Creative, and could probably only just afford it currently in Survival, and it would utterly expend my current resources.

Yeah. My observation from watching letsplays it's very easy to get the fusion build wrong and then boom, bad things happen. Fission is much cheaper and approachable, but fails in the most entertaining way with corruption, sickness, and an explosion. It's much more "fun" than the way ic2 nuclear fails.

Maybe I should give Greg a chance one of these days, if only to find out what all the fuss is about.

Greg is doing a good job at what he wants to do. It's not for everyone, but it is good.

 

[Mash]

You're saying "blah blah blah"

I'm hearing "IC2 is woefully out of balance and UUmatter energy cost is one of the prime ways"

This theoretical IC3 should rename the thing to an IridiumFabricator., and pop one out every 7x energy input. (Where X is 100 times current required energy for uumatter)

Are we talking about with, or without GregTech?

Without, obviously UU matter is stupid-easy to make. With... I dunno. 16 million EU per piece is a pretty hefty number. A thousand UU matter would set you back over 16 billion eu.

 

[jumpfight5]

which is exactly what I mentioned in my amateur rap battle thingy

Yay rapping!

 

[Poppycocks]

Jeeze dave, did you really have to regurgitate that much text?

Nonsense, it's nomore so than Redpower is/was.

Right back at you, if you made a list of machines in UE, RP and IC+GT, then all three would have exactly 2 machines that do the same thing, half of that down to even the GUI. However if you did the same for IC+GT and UE only, then you'd find that the machine alignt up to about 80%. Sure you wanna make machines you'll probably want circuitry, you want industrialization, then you'll probably go for better returns, but the similarities run much deeper here and UE could really do its own thing. Just look at XY. Things is they did want to emulate something that people already know to attract more people.

Aaaaaaaccutally the multi-furnaces from Mekanism (NEI factory) are... surprisingly rare. The closest you see is the induction furnace (2 slots) and the new steam furnace.

Okay, that was a stupid point, I agree, a great many machines use the furnace interface, for good reasons too. However I feel that if I was polishing IC2 up, then that's one of the things I'd touch up on for sure. That's why I made the point in the first place I guess, I feel that they missed a big chance. Heck, I'd probably make a great many machines true multiblocks and just get rid of GUIs entirely.

Mekanism gives you an ore doubling system that doesn't double all ores, but doubles ores necessary for power transmission. Later you can build the next piece (the purification chamber) and get ore tripling. I'm not sure how this is more or less lame than factorizations grinder->mixer->slag->crystalizer step.

Also note that the osmium ore outputs in the pulverizer.

It is more lame. The difference is subtle but the UE line is 3 machines which are virtually the same machine. They just take different inputs and give you different outputs. With no explanation as to why or how. It's three magic boxes which could've simply been one box that's three times as costly, takes three times as much power and takes flint as a secondary input. Factorization is different. It's... inspired by reality but still gamey enough to be fun.

• The grinder will grind ores.
• The mixer washes off silicates and natural contaminants
• The Slag Furnace deoxidizes the ores and leaves them fairly clean
• The Crystalizer disolves the metal in acid and lets it recrystalize as perfectly clean metal

Now compare that to "So take this gold ore here, squash it together with a piece of organic rock, you'll get three ...clumps back, then you can like grind those up and once you've got this dirty gold dust, just stick in this box here and it'll" hell - what does it even do? Transmute the extra flint in the gold ore into more gold by virtue of proximity? Is it magic? Did the wizard do it? DOES THE MACHINE CONTAIN NOTCHES BEARD? We'll never know.

Which is a funny and possibly clever choice. Flint is not exactly rare, but it's not exactly plentiful. I know of two ways to mass-produce flint in our modpack (which is pretty damn eclectic), and one of them is bugged. So basically you gotta mine or automine a lot to keep ore tripling. I sort of like the "feel" of Factorization's 4-step system, but I confess I never went for the crystalization step. You got like to 275% for most ores (better for silver) and that was fine!

Ignous extruder -> pulverizer (sand) -> barrel | pulverizer (gravel) -> pulverizer -> flint. Regardless of cross mod interactions, it's silly.

Crystalization is ballbusting hard, but fair, it's nice that you have to work for the really nice things. And that makes really good gameplay, kudos to neptune.

Tiered recipes are not ridiculous or bad. If anything, they're a service to the user. They're receiving wider adoption over time because they are good. (P.S., IC2 does it too and it's not the part of IC2 I have a problem with).

Tiered recipes like that are a plague that needs to be dealt with with extreme prejudice. A gear you make out of sticks and stone and iron and gold and diamonds isn't a diamond gear. It's a wood-stone-iron-gold-diamond gear. Simple as that. You don't make a transformer by building a 230 V -> 400 kV transformer and then adding and extra casing and some extra cables and a few batteries. You simply use bigger coils. Whoever came up with that stupid idea needs some prescribed medicine to help him get better.

I know it's all for balancing, but that's some seriously bad balancing. I know that the mod community can do better.

This part runs really long, so I'm gonna spoiler it. TL;DR: The relative costs of the generators and the incredible spread of power outputs between types means that UE's power balance is already better than Gregtech. The only place it breaks down is the default conversion to IC2 power means that you have Eff-You-Ic2-Power forever. The MJ conversion and steam conversion are not similarly broken, and the internal use of the power is consistent; a handful of advanced solars do not solve your power problems forever (or ever).

Spoiler

UE's power system and balance is way better off than IC2 right now. Look at the distribution of power output between mekanism generators, the simple coal generator, and the atomic science stuff. You can output (and consume) megawatts of energy in UE, but the very best passive generator is a feeble 9kw and is fairly expensive compared to every other generator out there. If you make a Hydrogen generator you're going to be getting may times that in yield, on a system that can also operate perpetually without the sky, and that doesn't cost many times that. The balance for the Hydrogen (and bio-generator) is that they require extra automation and the Hydrogen reactor requires a steady "kicker" power source.

That's a good balance point, because these generators are still relatively feeble compared to the Atomic options. But, and evidently everyone agrees this part was cribbed from IC2, the name of the game is "strong power generator risks mayhem." Atomic Science's output start at greater than 4x the other generators if you do it right (and there IS design space in AS reactors, they are multiblocks with mechanics, you can build weaker heat-stable reactors or stronger phased period reactors), and they don't cost even close to 4x. They just have to be treated very carefully because they will cheerfully render your base utterly uninhabitable if done wrong.

And the best power source in UE requires that you build a multi-chunk mutiblock structure and power it with a huge sum of power over many minutes (basically you have to have a fusion reactor the first time you do it, which is itself nearly the size of a full chunk) then produce output over many runs to make antimatter for a fulmination generator, which is basically all the power you need ever if you can get it running; so there is a high motivation for that crazy level of investment.

And here's the reason that works: UE fusion and atomic options are expensive, but they're not proportionally expensive to the output. Most IC2 options try to balance the output power to the cost of the generator on a nearly 1:1 basis (hence nuclear eats so many resources), but this is a mistake because the automation, maintenance and risk costs already help offset that.

You win this one, for now, UE wins in the generator department, mostly because the IC system is utterly shitty compared to that with it's "Midgame? What midgame?!" approach. However the problem is that most generators in UE have been getting nerfed consistently and what you speak of might be gone sooner than later. I'm sure I could raise several valid points here too, but I didn't dig deep enough quite yet.

No. It's just that the IC2 wrench mechanic is tedious and superfluous and radically inconsistent with the rest of the world and mod meta. No one really likes it, we've just all learned to deal because we make omni-wrenches and scowl at IC2's core mechanic here. I cannot see how we've decided that abandoning it one-uppsmanship. Basically no other mod does this.

No, the way IC does it is tedious and superfluous and stupid to boot, the mechanic is very sympathetic though. And I honestly wish that more techy mods employed it. I'm a motherfucking engineer, I wanna disassemble my fucking machines with a fucking wrench. Is that so much to ask?[/quote][/quote]

 

[Poppycocks]

Obviously I cannot peek into the minds of the devs and art team, but I do hang out in #universalelectricty on espernet sometimes and they do not talk about IC2 and how they can stroke their handlebar mustaches and tie RichardG to the tracks. They want cool industrial mods and they want to make a really big unified mod system that not only runs off one power system, but also unifies around a chemistry system and a mechanical system. It's a big job, no doubt.

Of course not, they're past that now with their own community and their own share of troubles they need to even out. But believing, with all the indirect evidence laid bare, that the initial impulse wasn't trying to simply take over the IC crowd is just lying to oneself.

But I'm not sure why IC2 must be the only game in town that does this. Greg is doing his thing, and crazily enough he now has native compatibility with UE power. Similarly the UE folks have done things to avoid breaking his universe (like changing platinum to osmium so as to not have oreDictWars). So I don't think that the devs themselves from the relative ecosystems are on particularly bad terms.

It doesn't have to, nor should it. However, what you said is that UE is better, cleaned up, refined IC.

It's not, not to the degree I and the other guys I was agreeing with imagine it. Once again, the community can do better.

Also, it's hilarious how you start of with "I tried to include a better IC" and then go "UE isn't IC!".

 

[Serendipiteit]

I'm using UE alongside IC2 in my server so people can take their preferred routes. I find most of them sticking to IC2 as they're more familiar to it, but I've also seen couple brave souls attempting UE as well. We won't say IC2 is 'dying out', but guess we can say that it's getting old - which is why we're using UE, IC2 and Gregtech at the same time. More choices the better.

That being said, I am really, really, really hating Mekanism. And without Mekanism UE is what...coal generator and fusion reactors? Mekanism's Joules to MJ and IC2 ratios are completely messed up, I'm seeing advanced solar panels giving 256EU/t. And their new 'universal cable' and 'mechanical pipe' crashes my server every time they're used. On rare cases server physics gets messed up as well - every time the Mekanism cables are placed, water flow slows down dramatically, gravel stops falling, and generally all sorts of bad stuffs happen. Anyone else experiencing this?

 

[RavynousHunter]

...Ya know what, I just feel like doing this, because reasons.

Thermal Expansion Ore Processing
Pros:

• Smaller overall footprint space-wise due to configurable item I/O.
• Power requirements are listed right in the machine's GUI, making things much simpler.
• Powered by MJ, which requires a few less materials than IC2 does to get started with (ie: Stirling engines).
• At peak efficiency, all machines have a consistent output rate, making timing-dependent automation easier.
• At default settings (for BC, TE, and IC2; taking Power Converters into account), BC/TE engines produce more power and do more per unit of fuel than their comparable IC2/GT counterparts.
• Chance for an extra dust during pulverization, helping keep you better-stocked with materials.

Cons:

• Machines have no capacity to be upgraded. If you want to work faster, you'll have to build more machines.
• Slower than their advanced/upgraded IC2 counterparts.
• Early game power requires a fair bit of attentiveness, so as to not overload your conductive pipes.
• Most machines require gold in some way, which is sometimes difficult to acquire.

IC2 Ore Processing
Pros:

• Upgradable. You can either stick in craftable upgrade components into the base machines, upgrade them to their advanced counterparts, or even both.
• Greater maximum ore processing speed
• Early-game power doesn't require much in the way of direct attention, apart from fuel.

Cons:

• Again, at default settings, with Power Converters in mind, IC2 power production machines produce less power and do less per unit of fuel than their TE counterparts.
• Macerators don't provide a chance for an extra dust from ores.
• Transformers, either as blocks or upgrades, must be provided if your capacitor's native output exceeds 32 EU/t.
• Multiple power cable types, which can be confusing to newcomers.

Those are just the ones I can think of, of course. They've all got their good and bad bits, and...use whatever suits you best. If you want more dust from your ores, TE is your friend. If speed is your primary concern, then IC2 is a better bet. I've not messed around with UE or Factorization ore processing, the former because I've not tacked it on to my Ultimate Pack yet, and the latter because I've just...never gotten around to it, but am considering doing so on my current map, assuming NEI can stop crashing my fucking game at random.

Honestly, the only way I see IC2 dying is if the devs give up on it and no one is willing or able to pick up the torch. They're both good, but at different things. It all depends on you.

However, I would like to see less emphasis on SMP balance, and more emphasis put on making a solid, well-working core experience for the individual player. I, personally, don't really play SMP very much...the only times I've done so recently is to play vanilla with my girlfriend. Balance for the sake of balance does not make a good mod. You've got to weigh between reasonable challenge, shit making sense, and most critically of all, making sure the thing is fun to begin with. That's one of the reasons I loved XyCraft, even before the machines started coming online, while others were bitching constantly about it. Its fun, it looks cool, and the machines all seem to be built on that grandest of design principles: It Just Works. Liquid storage alone would keep XyCraft in any of my packs, because there's not all this moronic, arbitrary bullshit of having to make a rolling machine, roll up iron plates, make the 3 different requisite block types, and fit them into a few preset sizes. You just get shit you can see holding liquids, like stone, make it between 3x3x3 and 12x12x12, tack a valve or two on there, and hit the valve with your fist. Bam, job done, storage is ready, and you can spend more time using the shit you store, as opposed to dicking around building the whole damn storage contraption in the first place.

That's how mods ought to behave, if ya ask me. Simple, intuitive, and most importantly, fun. If your mod's not fun, it doesn't matter if its perfectly balanced against every single bloody mod in existence, nobody will use it. Balance and realism doesn't always equate to an enjoyable experience. Another case in point: Railcraft boilers. Realistic? Sure. Enjoyable? For me...not so much. Partly because they're ludicrously inefficient, and partly because they're a little too realistic. So, yes, there are times when balance and realism should be thrown under the bus in the name of fun. Sacrifices must be made, and a balance between the forces of game balance, realism, and fun must be kept, lest ye fall into the pit.

...Okay, rant over, I think, lol.

 

[jumpfight5]

...Okay, rant over, I think, lol.

I wish everybody ranted like this!

 

[KirinDave]

Also, it's hilarious how you start of with "I tried to include a better IC" and then go "UE isn't IC!".

I tried to pull something new and fresh in without having IC2 to fall back on. I got roped back into having it, and now we're here. There is basically no way to NOT make mekanism power gen radically overpowered for IC2 without nerfing Mekanism into the ground for all other purposes. Even if we do that, there are other power loops to squash.

Quick summary, this fisking cannot continue.

On ore processing

We can agree to disagree on the plausibility of all these ore processing tools. I think the pulverizer is at least as implausible as the grinder as the mixer and the enrichment chamber. It's technobabbble and we should remember that is all it is. . And the machines are not really identical in UE; the Purification chamber is the final tier of the construction and it has power and materials costs that place it firmly there. Mekanism has a progression and it's not the Best Progression but it's not somehow absurd compared to the "WE PUSH REAL HARD AND THAT IS MORE EFFICIENT" or "THIS GRINDER USES MERCURY AND THEREFORE PRODUCES MORE OF THE SAME MATERIAL THAN IF YOU USED WATER" or even the more subtly implausible furnace mechanic.

Sure, real-life grinders and treatment techniques exist and they do resemble some of what Greg does. That doesn't mean they're somehow more plausible in a world where energy is not conserved and magic is a provable phenomenon.

In the end, and this is My Personal Opinion™, the really fun part is the automation steps for the system. GT, and Mekanism are equally hard to automate (especially with the 3.0* changes) and therefore to me it's all the same: gather an amplifier for your ore process. I'm not sure why I like TE as much as I do given this, honestly. I think because what TE has done is made ore processing sort of... wrapped up in your normal minecraft building skills. Like you can build complex pipelines if you want and it feels the same as building a house, just with some extra steps; and it looks good at the end to boot.

Overall, I just don't really see much more design space for ore processing in an industrialized context. I feel like Mekanism has enough to differentiate itself at least as much as Gregtech does, but I agree that I wish we saw even more new stuff. This is why I keep rooting for MineChem to start evolving. Right now it's boring, but it has crazy potential to be the whackiest/funniest/most intricate way to do ore processing.

On Powergen

Basically all the new mods get brought in line and start out out-of-line. It's no surprise this happens given what UE's process evolved into. ComplexMachines is a little OP right now; give it time. I submit that the combination of Mekanism and AtomicScience is probably only peered in terms of a power system with TE+BuildCraft+RailCraft, and that's why I wanted it. There are plenty of things to pick on, but it's there and it's good.

On A Better Ic2

Actually, you know.. If I really think right now the mod shaping up to be this is Minefactory Reloaded. If it had a power system and some ore processing... in many ways it spiritually aligns with the sort of whacky and over-the-top industrialized feel that IC2 has. It's really taken off this year.

 

[Mash]

On A Better Ic2

Actually, you know.. If I really think right now the mod shaping up to be this is Minefactory Reloaded. If it had a power system and some ore processing... in many ways it spiritually aligns with the sort of whacky and over-the-top industrialized feel that IC2 has. It's really taken off this year.

MFR - while probably one of, if not my favorite mod - will need more than just any old power system to replace IC2. It can't just pull a system like blutricity out of its ass and expect it to replace something like EU or MJ. It needs to be a REAL energy system. One that can realistically support a massive operation of machines.

I'd love to see MFR replace IC2, if it has to be replaced.

If there's one gripe I have with MFR it's that when compared to even the simple, base mods like IC2 and Buildcraft... its recipes are waaaaay too cheap for the functionality they provide. The Bio Reactor and Deep Storage Unit are predominant examples of this for me.

Of course, if Greg decided to stay on with all of that, I'm sure he'd find a proper way to rectify it.

 

[Hoff]

MFR - while probably one of, if not my favorite mod - will need more than just any old power system to replace IC2. It can't just pull a system like blutricity out of its ass and expect it to replace something like EU or MJ. It needs to be a REAL energy system. One that can realistically support a massive operation of machines.

I'd love to see MFR replace IC2, if it has to be replaced.

If there's one gripe I have with MFR it's that when compared to even the simple, base mods like IC2 and Buildcraft... its recipes are waaaaay too cheap for the functionality they provide. The Bio Reactor and Deep Storage Unit are predominant examples of this for me.

Of course, if Greg decided to stay on with all of that, I'm sure he'd find a proper way to rectify it.

PC added GT recipes.

 

[Peppe]

MFR - while probably one of, if not my favorite mod - will need more than just any old power system to replace IC2. It can't just pull a system like blutricity out of its ass and expect it to replace something like EU or MJ. It needs to be a REAL energy system. One that can realistically support a massive operation of machines.

I'd love to see MFR replace IC2, if it has to be replaced.

If there's one gripe I have with MFR it's that when compared to even the simple, base mods like IC2 and Buildcraft... its recipes are waaaaay too cheap for the functionality they provide. The Bio Reactor and Deep Storage Unit are predominant examples of this for me.

Of course, if Greg decided to stay on with all of that, I'm sure he'd find a proper way to rectify it.

MFR and Powersuits in Thermal Expansion recipe mode makes for a very nice core. A little gold starved in a the beginning, but after that you can take off.

 

[KirinDave]

MFR - while probably one of, if not my favorite mod - will need more than just any old power system to replace IC2. It can't just pull a system like blutricity out of its ass and expect it to replace something like EU or MJ. It needs to be a REAL energy system. One that can realistically support a massive operation of machines.

I'd love to see MFR replace IC2, if it has to be replaced.

If there's one gripe I have with MFR it's that when compared to even the simple, base mods like IC2 and Buildcraft... its recipes are waaaaay too cheap for the functionality they provide. The Bio Reactor and Deep Storage Unit are predominant examples of this for me.

Of course, if Greg decided to stay on with all of that, I'm sure he'd find a proper way to rectify it.

PC has a bunch of recipe types. You can change them on config. They're more expensive than vanilla.

You are victim of the "FTB's config should be good, right?" fallacy.

 

[Hoff]

PC has a bunch of recipe types. You can change them on config. They're more expensive than vanilla.

You are victim of the "FTB's config should be good, right?" fallacy.

Wait are you saying configs are a fallacy or you disagree with the FTB team's choices? If the latter I'm okay with it but the former... Not so much.

 

[King Lemming]

And their new 'universal cable' and 'mechanical pipe' crashes my server every time they're used. On rare cases server physics gets messed up as well - every time the Mekanism cables are placed, water flow slows down dramatically, gravel stops falling, and generally all sorts of bad stuffs happen. Anyone else experiencing this?

That's not physics messing up, that's your tick rate being absolutely mauled by bad code. There's a reason conduits and liquiducts took so much time to get right (and that's why they use roughly 1/1000000000th of the CPU compared to Mekanism's).

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hate on Aidan here - he's a nice guy and enthusiastic about his mod. But I called out Elo on relays, so Mekanism definitely doesn't get a free pass.

 

[power crystals]

That's not physics messing up, that's your tick rate being absolutely mauled by bad code. There's a reason conduits and liquiducts took so much time to get right (and that's why they use roughly 1/1000000000th of the CPU compared to Mekanism's).

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hate on Aidan here - he's a nice guy and enthusiastic about his mod. But I called out Elo on relays, so Mekanism definitely doesn't get a free pass.

Yeah. Mekanism's power network is very, very CPU intensive. Like, to the point where I cannot in good faith suggest you use it. I haven't looked at his liquid/gas transit systems but I can only assume they're the same way.

edit: by the way, credit where credit is due: MFR isn't just a one-person effort; the TE and GT-mode recipes are by Emy, not myself. So is much of the mod compat code.

 

[DoctorOr]

Actually, you know.. If I really think right now the mod shaping up to be this is Minefactory Reloaded. If it had a power system and some ore processing... in many ways it spiritually aligns with the sort of whacky and over-the-top industrialized feel that IC2 has. It's really taken off this year.

It's got a power system. It's the same one every tech mod that isn't purposefully insular and that integrates with the rest of the modded universe uses... MJ

Every powered machine in MFR uses MJ, and it can generate MJ. The one thing the mod can't do is carry it. This is largely because there's little to improve on conduits and any sort of acceptable methodology will necessarily be almost a straight copy of conduits.

The truth though, is that we're past the whole "one mod and only one mod" time period of Minecraft. For the best experience with MFR, you're expected to use BC, TE, or IC2. Probably BC or TE because MFR also lacks the ability to move liquids.

Although, one thing is needed in the MJ-verse, and that's an early "first hour" type energy carrying network "that doesn't suck". This is particularly necessary in light of Buildcraft changes that now cause engines directly facing a machine to blow up where they wouldn't in 1.4.7. Right now things are so bad, that most recently I used a clockwork engine to pulverizer, combined with a vanilla furnace, to get MFR biofuel up and functioning and then placed a magma crucible and liquid transposer directly on the one of the faces of the biofuel generator. Perhaps a cheap energy net with a maximum size.

 

[RavynousHunter]

Wait a minute, I'm a bit lost...by "PC," are you talking about Power Converters, or PowerCraft, or somethin else?

 

[Serendipiteit]

That's not physics messing up, that's your tick rate being absolutely mauled by bad code. There's a reason conduits and liquiducts took so much time to get right (and that's why they use roughly 1/1000000000th of the CPU compared to Mekanism's).

And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to hate on Aidan here - he's a nice guy and enthusiastic about his mod. But I called out Elo on relays, so Mekanism definitely doesn't get a free pass.

Yeah. Mekanism's power network is very, very CPU intensive. Like, to the point where I cannot in good faith suggest you use it. I haven't looked at his liquid/gas transit systems but I can only assume they're the same way.

Thanks a lot guys. Pity, I liked the mod and how fancy their machines look.. but I guess it's gone for now.