I know I'm probably beating a dead horse here but.. Dartcraft.

[YX33A]

You can squeeze liquid force out of force logs. And force engines will put out 8 MJ/t when supplied with liquid force and water and 10 MJ/t with milk. To some people, being able to supply an engine that produces 10MJ/t without going through weeks of tree breeding is OP.

So I guess they'd hate anyone who uses a Forestry Electrical Engine, then. Or, god forbid, power crystal's Power Converters and outputting MJ. Or, even worse, someone using MFR or Steves Carts to power a RC Boiler system.

EDIT: Also, for the record, I enjoy my Bee Breeding. Still can't say it isn't tedious as all fuck. Unless, y'know, Oblivion Frames. Are they supposed to be Rare? I used to have a stockpile of them back in 1.4.7 because I have no clue what the did, now I'm using them nigh constantly for my breeding bees due to being exactly what I need to make the tedious nature of Bees notably less so (IE: Oh my fucking god, just DIE ALREADY SO I CAN START THE NEXT STRAIN XBDNXZBJZCNVXZS /ragequit).

 

[DREVL]

you know what? I loved power converters back in 1.2.5 using tekkit. I saw nothing overpowered about it. I hated having 2 different energy methods. I of course jump into FTB with direwolf20 which had no power conversion. Miss that bugger. Might be enough to push me to unleashed 1.6 or whatever the next update will be.

 

[MigukNamja]

Unleashed 1.5.2 has PowerConvertors. Just have to enable them. I'm pretty sure you could drop in PowerConvertors into the 1.5.2 DireWolf20 pack no problems, either. Dire probably doesn't use them since they're not that creative/fun to show in his videos. Notice he doesn't use solars, either. Not because they're OP, but because they're rather dull. I admit I use PowerConvertors when I have lots of MJ and the alternative is building solars. I've been there, done that with HV Solars, so now I'll just build a PowerConvertor when I need a Macerator, Extractor, or Compressor, and call it done.

As for Force Engine, it's 12 MJ/t with liquid force (Force Log into Forestry Squeezer) + milk (1 MFR Rancher + 1 cow) and the liquid force lasts *much* longer than normal fuel in a normal engine. With a little bit of bee breeding, they can make 16MJ/t while practically sipping liquid force.

As for interaction with other mods. Duh. Cross-mod been going on for a while now and is the norm and is indeed one of the pillars of the MC modding community. Cool factory, power systems, and other complicated contraptions wouldn't be as fun or even possible with cross-mod interaction. So, that's not the issue.

The issue is the Force Tree and Force Engine aren't just slightly more powerful than their predecessors, but vastly (at least 2x) more powerful with less work/infrastructure/investment. DartCart is a LOLZ mod, or a shortcut mod, or simply a fun mod, depending upon how you use it. There are also some very cool and creative things in DC like Ender Tots.

It is *not*, however, a balanced mod. The power production is basically Forestry on steroids.

 

[RandomMoped]

oh hey a dartcraft thread

 

[YX33A]

you know what? I loved power converters back in 1.2.5 using tekkit. I saw nothing overpowered about it. I hated having 2 different energy methods. I of course jump into FTB with direwolf20 which had no power conversion. Miss that bugger. Might be enough to push me to unleashed 1.6 or whatever the next update will be.

Or, y'know, just add it manually. Or play Unleashed and enable it.

I don't see power converting mods as "OP". Why? They are meant to make it so you don't have to have tons of power generation stuff because you use more the one power system. They're, again, for convenience. A mod that does something simply to add convenience is hard to call "OP" because it's meant to snub it's nose at such a thing. It can do so in a balanced manner, and in the case of Power Converters, if it isn't giving you more power then what you put in, then yeah, balanced! But, say, someone finds a way to make a power loop that adds a bit of extra power, maybe using Lava somehow. OK, are they doing this with just one power system? No? Is it a vastly complicated process? Yes? Let them have their fun, then. No? Not a problem on the end of Power Converters, because it's just letting you take one power source and use it for another.
Now, I can almost hear someone saying "B-b-b-but it's only possible BECAUSE they're using a mod to turn one power source into another!", to which I can only respond "Then the mod they're using that is making the extra power needs to be fixed, because Power Converters is working exactly as it's meant to".

 

[Hoff]

It is *not*, however, a balanced mod. The power production is basically Forestry on steroids.

You're confusing DC with MFR. Or RC.

 

[snooder]

As for Force Engine, it's 12 MJ/t with liquid force (Force Log into Forestry Squeezer) + milk (1 MFR Rancher + 1 cow) and the liquid force lasts *much* longer than normal fuel in a normal engine. With a little bit of bee breeding, they can make 16MJ/t while practically sipping liquid force.

This isn't true, unless there is a bug somewhere. Liquid Force lasts 10,000 ticks in a Force Engine. Fuel lasts 100,000 ticks in a Combustion Engine or Force Engine.[DOUBLEPOST=1379627505][/DOUBLEPOST]

Or, y'know, just add it manually. Or play Unleashed and enable it.

I don't see power converting mods as "OP". Why? They are meant to make it so you don't have to have tons of power generation stuff because you use more the one power system. They're, again, for convenience. A mod that does something simply to add convenience is hard to call "OP" because it's meant to snub it's nose at such a thing. It can do so in a balanced manner, and in the case of Power Converters, if it isn't giving you more power then what you put in, then yeah, balanced! But, say, someone finds a way to make a power loop that adds a bit of extra power, maybe using Lava somehow. OK, are they doing this with just one power system? No? Is it a vastly complicated process? Yes? Let them have their fun, then. No? Not a problem on the end of Power Converters, because it's just letting you take one power source and use it for another.
Now, I can almost hear someone saying "B-b-b-but it's only possible BECAUSE they're using a mod to turn one power source into another!", to which I can only respond "Then the mod they're using that is making the extra power needs to be fixed, because Power Converters is working exactly as it's meant to".

The "unbalanced" portion of Power Converters is the steam conversion. To which I say, why should it cost more to actually use the steam you already set up a massive infrastructure to generate?

 

[Mero]

You can squeeze liquid force out of force logs. And force engines will put out 8 MJ/t when supplied with liquid force and water and 10 MJ/t with milk. To some people, being able to supply an engine that produces 10MJ/t without going through weeks of tree breeding is OP.

Weeks of tree breeding?

I had this tree after 3 days, about 12-16 hours total time spent.
http://www.reddit.com/r/feedthebeas..._much_cross_breeding_i_finally_got_my/caxgu4k

And I have to say that the tree is way op. I have close to 300k apples, 64k saplings and 30k logs.
I could turn my farm off now and not have to worry about fuel for a long time.
My issue now is making enough BC tanks to hold everything since Xycraft isn't updated and in Unleashed.

 

[MigukNamja]

You're confusing DC with MFR. Or RC.

RC power gen doesn't require 1 bit of Forestry (I used oil into fuel this last playthrough) and MFR certainly doesn't.

However, Force Logs *require* a Forestry Squeezer for liquid force. Hence, easily renewable DC power gen requires Forestry.

No, not confused at all.[DOUBLEPOST=1379629460][/DOUBLEPOST]

The "unbalanced" portion of Power Converters is the steam conversion. To which I say, why should it cost more to actually use the steam you already set up a massive infrastructure to generate?

Yeah, haven't tried that one yet. I always attach the steamies directly to the boiler tank. One of the reasons I like building boilers is the wheesh and steam puffs from the Industrial Steam Engines. The steel gears used to make them look pretty nice, too.

 

[Hoff]

RC power gen doesn't require 1 bit of Forestry (I used oil into fuel this last playthrough) and MFR certainly doesn't.

However, Force Logs *require* a Forestry Squeezer for liquid force. Hence, easily renewable DC power gen requires Forestry.

No, not confused at all.

You said in what I quoted(basically) DC power generation >>> Forestry.

My post conveyed that MFR and RC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC in the same terms.

 

[zorn]

Mod devs have no reason, nor should they, to create and balance their mod with respect to other mods. It's not rude to outdo a parent mod; it's inevitable and it's innovation.

This is completely ridiculous.

 

[Zealstarwind]

Dartcraft is fun but it totally needs balancing, the fact you can mine cobalt and err the yellow ore (from the nether) from Tinkers construct with your BARE HANDS thanks to Dartcraft is frankly ridiculous.

Fun yes, remotely serious, hell no.

I know... those were the 2 ores I took a bit to get to but knowing you can just mine it up with your fists makes it annoying. I always disable dartcraft by default in any packs due to it's fact that it breaks the spirit of the game in survival.

 

[Symmetryc]

Thank you. You made my point right there. Without BC, Forestry and Railcraft, there would *be* no Force Engine. Where I come from, clearly overshadowing your mod parent is considered rude behavior.

Without BC, there's no MJ, so your whole point after that is invalid. But I'll humor you

Are my eyes playing tricks on me or did you attempt to invalidate his post by saying the exact same thing he did?

 

[Bigpak]

I don't even know what you are going on about mining ardite and cobalt ore in the nether with your hands, when I try it takes like 2 minutes and after that it just breaks and doesn't even give it to me in unleashed 1.1.3

Is it only in 1.1.4?

 

[Zealstarwind]

You can mine it with sufficient level and from what I hear it's not that hard to level in dartcraft. I cant wait for a balance because that mod needs it moreso then any other mod *coughs MPS cough*

 

[GPuzzle]

This is completely ridiculous.

No.
It's okay to outdo other mods, even if it doesn't seem so (you can get more power of a single combustion engine than an HP boiler, not per tick, though, in the long run). If you have a mod that has something that is directly better and more powerful than yours (Macerator vs Pulverizer) by power usage, cost, accessibility... That thing is going to win.
You know, it works in economics too. The problem is when people try to make the mod environment a communist society - in other words, profits are good, and if people aren't using an mod's item (especially if you're an addon), what do you so?
You add something that makes it better!
Metagame is annoying and ruins fun for me (experimentation!) 90% of the time because it constricts the player within a certain number of rules.

 

[Bigpak]

*Sigh* Why does everyone only care about balance constantly? Why don't people care about it being fun? It's all I ever hear. I wouldn't mind a config with a bunch of options but a total balance that cannot be changed? I don't really like that.

 

[GPuzzle]

*Sigh* Why does everyone only care about balance constantly? Why don't people care about it being fun? It's all I ever hear. I wouldn't mind a config with a bunch of options but a total balance that cannot be changed? I don't really like that.

Exactly! That, and the end-game mentality.
Both are just as annoying as the metagame.

 

[Bigpak]

I'm not going to lie, I used to still think about end game a while back but after I just said screw it and lost that mentality and just thought about what amazing creations I could make I started having so much more fun and not worrying about what I do after I get to endgame. Endgame is literally not there.

 

[dlord]

There are actually people (like me) who love the "overpowered" stuff. Not because it makes the game easy: it opens the game for new possibilities.

We can argue all day that the Vajra is truly overpowered once you have the right gear to support it. But try making a 500x500 block structure over a void age without one, then you'll find yourself itching to go on creative mode.

If you're too worried about balance, Minecraft isn't the game for you. It started out as a creative game, and even with all the mods, it will still remain to be one. Game balance should never be an issue.

If it's still not sinking in, try playing Lego.