I know I'm probably beating a dead horse here but.. Dartcraft.

[MichaelAbbott]

So I just soent about 20 minutes tinkering with Dartcraft with the things I already had in my relatively new FTB Unleashed SSP world and.. Wow..
With very few starting materials I now run at about 4x vanilla speed on the ground, and have made myself some tools that afaik resemble somewhat enchanted diamond tools.

Really? I understand people have been saying this is OP for a while now, along with spoils bags and stuff. Another thing I noticed is the fact you can, in fact, wrench full diamond chests. Screw the force and ender bag, i'll take everything I need for a massive spelunking trip in one inventory space sized diamond chest, please!

Now, I thought about it for a few moments, and I thought, perhaps some kind of config should be necessary with mods that add so much "convenience" to the pack - like Dartcraft, it's like the total opposite of Gregtech from Ultimate, and GT had configs, which I'm not sure DC has.

My issue is I don't think it should have been defaulted in the pack - yes, I know, I can turn it off, but in my mind it doesn't feel complete without an FTB based API (which we can't force the DC author to include, but nobody was forced to add DC to the unleashed pack) that defaulted to giving the force engine it's own power output that only DC power requiring machines could use. That, for me, would make it immediately more like vanilla. The only way I managed to get to where I got in the DC route so quickly was because I used a stirling engine to power my infuser. If I'd required the force engine to power it, it would have slowed me down a little more.

DC looks like it'd be fine in vanilla, because without grinders and macerators and all kinds of ore mining automation and ore-output-doubling systems, working up through the DC "ranks" would take more time. But in FTB we have these things, especially things like EE3 and soul shards, as well as all the relatively easy BC3 stuff, getting the required materials to quickly get huge perks from dartcraft is not only automatable, but also renewable and abundant.

I guess what I'm saying in, maybe taking more care to rule out the "absolute easy mode" option from the default pack could be taken, I don't feel that DC "belongs" in FTB as it stands because, whilst DC is a nice addition and i'd certainly re-use it outside of FTB, I feel with all the ways FTB can automate, renew and make abundant, the vanilla materials that DC requires, it's far too easy in the default settings to power-scale much much quicker than previously. Which, although doesn't effect people who can remove it from their SSP worlds, might make server life a bit bland for people who want to do things with a little more effort.

Sorry if I appear a little bold, I'm still mostly new to FTB, and especially the Unleashed pack, but this is just my opinion on DC in terms of how packs are put together, and how multiplayer might be effected. Thanks for reading my wall of text.

 

[DREVL]

eh, people like it. thats why they'll keep it in.

 

[b0bst3r]

Dartcraft is fun but it totally needs balancing, the fact you can mine cobalt and err the yellow ore (from the nether) from Tinkers construct with your BARE HANDS thanks to Dartcraft is frankly ridiculous.

Fun yes, remotely serious, hell no.

 

[MigukNamja]

/agree

DC is not balanced with the other mods.

 

[MigukNamja]

eh, people like it. thats why they'll keep it in.

Yes, but needs a better config. Cool things that people generally don't have balance issues with, like Ender Tots have a good config : spawn chance and tots per spawn. That's good, seriously.

OP things like OP early-game tools and 8 MJ/t for a Force Engine don't have a good config option other than removal entirely.

 

[DREVL]

/agree

DC is not balanced with the other mods.

A mod is not generally made up with other mods in mind. It is either a coincidence or a mutual agreement that it coincides with other mods and isn't OP in your opinion.[DOUBLEPOST=1379524456][/DOUBLEPOST]I don't use it as I think its ridiculous. But so is TiC in most cases. So is MPS in most cases. hell, so is Twilight forest in most cases.

 

[JunpakuKarasu]

I just use it for the shears, especially with the 'Rainbow enchant'. It's been so much fun to hop in my sheep pen and cause a Rainbow Explosion of Wool that I haven't bothered to set up a wool farm yet. ^w^

 

[MigukNamja]

A mod is not generally made up with other mods in mind. It is either a coincidence or a mutual agreement that it coincides with other mods and isn't OP in your opinion.

One has to exercise incredible willful ignorance to ignore the elephant (ex: BC3) in the room.

But, the OP's point, DC in just *vanilla* is already OP. Running 4x faster than normal and having better than enchanted diamond tools 20 minutes into the game is just....wow.

 

[MichaelAbbott]

But DC has it's own specific list of mods it has "compatibility" with. It was clearly written with mod-packs in mind but took no consideration for the power-scaling having those mods together would cause. I'm sorry but who, writing mods compatible with TE, TC, BC and IC2 ISN'T thinking about tech-based mod-packs when they sit down and plan their content?

One has to exercise incredible willful ignorance to ignore the elephant (ex: BC3) in the room.

But, the OP's point, DC in just *vanilla* is already OP. Running 4x faster than normal and having better than enchanted diamond tools 20 minutes into the game is just....wow.

In DCs defense, you appear to have misread my post, or, admittedly, I worded it badly. I had only known about DCs content for 20 minutes in an Unleashed world that was so new, my base is still a hole in the ground with a sugar farm and my only machinery is a TC (I think it's TC.) Grinder and Powered furnace. Before exploring DC I had iron armour and tools, and had only found/created a handful of diamonds that were sat in my chest.

Using the limited resources I had (I wasn't using a quarry, let's put things into perspective) I managed to create what I had in a very short period of time, the armour, unenchanted, I assume is the same strength as iron, then speed enchants without having to level my tome.

Well, I digress, the point is, without manipulating even very much of the mod pack's full potential, I had managed to get entry level DC equipment, which, let's face it, is much more of an impact on the power scale than even some mods' mid-game equipment.

 

[DREVL]

I just use it for the shears, especially with the 'Rainbow enchant'. It's been so much fun to hop in my sheep pen and cause a Rainbow Explosion of Wool that I haven't bothered to set up a wool farm yet. ^w^

it does some pretty ridiculous stuff. It just so happens some people don't care. Some people have it for the lolz.[DOUBLEPOST=1379525048][/DOUBLEPOST]

One has to exercise incredible willful ignorance to ignore the elephant (ex: BC3) in the room.

But, the OP's point, DC in just *vanilla* is already OP. Running 4x faster than normal and having better than enchanted diamond tools 20 minutes into the game is just....wow.

so?

 

[DREVL]

But DC has it's own specific list of mods it has "compatibility" with. It was clearly written with mod-packs in mind but took no consideration for the power-scaling having those mods together would cause. I'm sorry but who, writing mods compatible with TE, TC, BC and IC2 ISN'T thinking about tech-based mod-packs when they sit down and plan their content?



In DCs defense, you appear to have misread my post, or, admittedly, I worded it badly. I had only known about DCs content for 20 minutes in an Unleashed world that was so new, my base is still a hole in the ground with a sugar farm and my only machinery is a TC (I think it's TC.) Grinder and Powered furnace. Before exploring DC I had iron armour and tools, and had only found/created a handful of diamonds that were sat in my chest.

Using the limited resources I had (I wasn't using a quarry, let's put things into perspective) I managed to create what I had in a very short period of time, the armour, unenchanted, I assume is the same strength as iron, then speed enchants without having to level my tome.

Well, I digress, the point is, without manipulating even very much of the mod pack's full potential, I had managed to get entry level DC equipment, which, let's face it, is much more of an impact on the power scale than even some mods' mid-game equipment.

That's impressive... I use DW1.5. I just choose not to use EE3. If I did, it would be ridiculous too. Still, there are times where my cares to give kinda give up and I go there. EE3 is even more ridiculous than DC.

 

[Bigpak]

I personally like dartcraft for some of the stuff it adds, it'd be great if it could get config options on every last thing that'd be great but it probably won't happen, and I am fine with that. IF you really don't like it and cannot stand it just remove it. It would be nice to have config options but at the moment there aren't many. IF you don't like it don't use it.

 

[Necr0maNceR]

Hasn't a bunch of the stuff in Dartcraft already been nerfed somewhat and given config options in the most recent version?

so is Twilight forest in most cases.

You think Twilight Forest is OP? How so? Do you think the hollow hills have too many ores? Other than that, the only thing I would consider overpowered is the twilight scepter, and maybe the zombie scepter. All in all, I think the Twilight Forest is really well balanced in respect to vanilla. So much so, that much of its equipment and stuff is rendered totally useless due to Tinker's Construct and just about any other mod that adds armor and/or tools. Honestly, the Twilight Forest's utility is hurt due to how much more powerful other mods are by comparison. Good thing it's so much fun to explore, otherwise a lot of people probably wouldn't bother with it at all.

 

[DREVL]

Twilight forest by itself is very interesting. Used with any mods that have heavy resourced end game items that would typically be fairly difficult to attain are easily collected from the TF world. Rare ores are common in consolidated places. General ores are in more open areas and require less exploration. Need charcoal, take out the trees anywhere around TF. Need odd blocks like mossy cobble or special stone? Its all over the place over there. You are practically given a map of exactly where things are. There is no night so there is no creeper surprise. There is no need to try and find a mining world from mystcraft. Its better to just rape the TF. Its the most efficient way of getting any resource. It is op, but I love it. The hell if I want to look forever to get enough lapis for my fortune 3 TiC. I can get enough charcoal for a boiler to start and maintain in like 15-20 minutes. I can actually get to all the end points of all the mods with TF, where as without it I probably couldn't.

 

[PierceSG]

The mod author did do some balancing for the mod but AFAIK are for 1.6. I might be wrong.

Still, you can disable the mod if you do not like it. Or control yourself.

Server wise, you can either not give a ding about other players using it, suggest to the admin to disable it or find another server.

The only instance I'll find reasons for balance would be a pvp based server, even then it is up to the admins to decide.

Players can always feedback to the author but bear in mind it is their project afterall and you are free to not use it.

 

[RedBoss]

The phrase is is "Kicking a dead horse," and you have pulled a full David Beckham on this subject.

 

[JunpakuKarasu]

The phrase is is "Kicking a dead horse," and you have pulled a full David Beckham on this subject.

'Beating a dead horse' is correct as well.

 

[snooder]

Dartcraft is fine. I've been running with it heavily in my latest build and while it's nice for the early game, it lags behind MPS and even good old Quantum armor when you get to the late game. The tools also aren't better than the top-end TC tools or the MPS power glove. I'm actually planning to swap back to MPS tonight because the lackluster flight and lack of underwater breathing are getting to me. Between that, and the power drill draining my advanced nanochestplate ridiculously quickly, it's not worth it any more to go so heavy on Dartcraft stuff.

Really the only benefit of Dartcraft stuff is that it's cheaper so you can get to the nether faster without dying instantly to mobs. Once you're there though, you should have enough stacks of iron and redstone to make a decent set of MPS armor + advanced nanochestplate.

The force punch is somewhat unnecessary though. I think it might be better if those bonuses only applied to force mitts. But that's very minor, and by the time you can stack enough bonuses on your armor, you should have a decent tool anyway.

 

[RedBoss]

'Beating a dead horse' is correct as well.

Either way, how many of these threads do we need?

 

[Enigmius1]

I am my own mod config. It works out pretty well that way. If I think something ruins the game, I don't use it. If I think something is an inordinate grind, I don't do it, I bypass it, or I put it off until I can set up something ridiculous to manage it minus the soul sucking grind. I think there are enough people who have done the early-game process numerous times by now that a lot of them are happy for an opportunity to bypass some of the grind in the name of getting back up to speed quickly with the basics. I'm one of them, though I've been carrying a stone pick for an awfully long time in my new world.

The number of people who are comfortable editing configs and who see the option to adjust "balance" tuning with them are the extreme minority. Sometimes ya gotta learn to just play the game as it is instead of micro-managing every last detail. It's amazing how much more fun it can be.