GregTech Debate Thread

[ICountFrom0]

That is, a nice list of cool things. Course GT is mostly a nice list of cool things, that somehow don't quite work out... but I will reserve my opinion on everything but the block compression. The only explenation there is, "it makes it harder" only "tedious and harder to automate" is the word.

If I see one more thing that has to be silk touched and manually mined out once you are supposed to be advanced enough for automated drilling, I will surely become most aggrieved.

 

[Zelfana]

What I can see from the changes is that GregTech is more and more becoming an independent mod that should be played with only IC2 installed. As it adds its own machines and ores in the new version so nothing uses other mods. And what this means is that if GregTech is in the pack FTB just becomes GregTech with other mods that only get used for things that GT or IC2 doesn't have. The main problem again is that the tools and armor are must have and therefore people are required to progress in IC2. GT is making those slower to get so there is more to fiddle with until you get them. Other mods need alternatives to IC2 tools and armor. Or nerf IC2 tools and armor directly, not just make them slower to get. There is no other way to get variety.

As a sidenote I want to say that I will play the magic pack instead of the main pack since I don't want to play with GT and IC2. I lost interest in them since most stuff is better done with other mods and the only reason I bothered with them was to get the tools and armor. Everything else can be done with other mods plus you won't have to deal with different power grids. Also, experience actually has still use even in end game and Twilight Forest can't be raped with lasers and jetpacks.

 

[noskk]

@Zelfana Well, it's your choice.. I'm pretty sure magic carpet will be implemented soon..

@ICountFrom0 It works rather well (except for the automated machines), have you tried the latest version?
hmm.. he had added some ores to the end so that you could get platinum and iridium easier.. --> this was because people complained about platinum only available from silk-touching iridium ore in his thread (that includes me lol).. so if you have any problem, you can complain in his IC2 thread too...

 

[Dravarden]

Well, gregtech just makes stuff harder to get when there is no point for it, like the matterfrabricator or the centrifuge, it just doesn't make sense to change a mod, is like saying to the creator: "listen, your mod sucks, is unbalanced, but don't worry, I won't balance it, I will make it crap ton harder so no one would want to play with your mod and use others instead"

 

[FMan_0000]

Well, gregtech just makes stuff harder to get when there is no point for it, like the matterfrabricator or the centrifuge, it just doesn't make sense to change a mod, is like saying to the creator: "listen, your mod sucks, is unbalanced, but don't worry, I won't balance it, I will make it crap ton harder so no one would want to play with your mod and use others instead"

Gregtech makes mods harder and easier at the same time. If you don't believe me look at the centrifurge reciepes. Gold and tin from lava. Or look at normal ic2 reciepes. Before gregtech, you needed a diamond to craft a laptron crystal. Now you just need a sapphire. For the shake of god, it's cheaper. It's just a bit harder to make it balanced.

 

[Pinkishu]

I'd be fine with the Rotary Macerator and Overclockers being more expensive (which they are in GT, plus the Rotary is from an add-on mod anyway and not base IC), but that's not a reason to make the intro macerator unavailable until you use all the other mods. Currently you can't build a normal macerator until you have enough to build the Rotary so the normal one is pointless.

Depends on your local progression and priorities, they don't use the same materials and I don't see how making a macerator requires you to use other mods either but, eh.

Again, then make the Advanced solars more expensive. Currently there's no point to the noob solar because by the time you can make it you've got enough resources to go right to advanced solar.

Not sure which recipe we're talking about but its not like ultra expensive to make the "normal" solars Oo

Yes, I know all these things. I was talking about new players, and how they find all of this stuff pretty confusing, and don't fit into the "bah all the non-GT mods are so easy because you get everything in five seconds" mold that people think GT fixes.

So we should not have railcraft cause it means people cannot craft rails normally iirc? What if people find tin ore, won't it confuse them because they don't know what to use it for? Not sure which "all non-GT mods" you are talking about, these comments mostly focused on IC-balance from what I read...

When I was new to IC I thought like too that UU is unreachable, but step by step you get closer, progress, and eventually get it. Nice feeling, really.

If the "fun" comes from just switching recipes around so the ones you memorized are now wrong and you have to go read a wiki or use NEI to figure out how to now do what you used to do, then again, that's only fun for people who have memorized the old mods, and confusing for people who are new and can't figure out why every FTB server has different recipes for IC items and why they can't follow any youtube tutorials on how to use IC or anything like that.

They can follow the tutorials, just have to look up the recipes. Having to memorize them? Hmm not sure open crafting table, click item, click"?" see recipe, once you have crafted it a couple of times you know it anyway~
You make it sound like one would have to sit down 2 hours a day to learn some recipe list Oo

I don't think anyone cares about making the Quantum suit harder to get. I know I don't. I'm more annoyed at making the intro tier machines and items require a bunch of hoops to jump through.

I never really saw solar as "intro tier"? You need quite a couple of them and they eat quite the iron if you want them to produce anything useable (the vanilla IC ones).
Macerator... hmm maybe, but yet again, it doubles your ores, one might argue that theres something very OP in that being an intro-tier machine. And heck 3 or 4 diamonds aren't even that hard to find (yeah, you gotta use vanilla mining techniques instead of quarries) as far as I'm concerned, using TE you don't even need a macerator until you want coal dust and stuff...

In the end people should play how they want, personally I don't think I see a reason in playing a dumbed-down version though (meaning vanilla IC2)

 

[Crezetique]

I've been noticing players putting IC2 down to the last part of their "to-do list" due to GregTech.

GregTech isn't necessarily bad, it adds a whole new level of end-game content. The one huge factor that makes half the community vote against it is that it changes how vanilla IC2 works. The centrifuge recipes may allow you to get items in a whole new way but it is definitely unnecessarily confusing. I wouldn't say it's balancing anything, it is unbalanced because it places IC2 in the bottom because every other mod can do stuff much easier, quicker.

If GregTech simply added all the hard content after IC2 without changing vanilla IC2 recipes and mechanics, I'm sure there wouldn't be this much debate over it.

 

[Pinkishu]

The main problem again is that the tools and armor are must have and therefore people are required to progress in IC2.

No, they're not. Neither are diamond tools actually.

As a sidenote I want to say that I will play the magic pack instead of the main pack since I don't want to play with GT and IC2. I lost interest in them since most stuff is better done with other mods and the only reason I bothered with them was to get the tools and armor. Everything else can be done with other mods plus you won't have to deal with different power grids. Also, experience actually has still use even in end game and Twilight Forest can't be raped with lasers and jetpacks.

I don't see the issue in different power grid that everyone seems to be complaining about~
Miners are quite the useful tool, Trade-O-Mats too. And it just adds a whole nice chunk of stuff to do~
But ofc you're free to play the magic pack (which imo isn't very "magical")[DOUBLEPOST=1354802114][/DOUBLEPOST]

I've been noticing players putting IC2 down to the last part of their "to-do list" due to GregTech.

GregTech isn't necessarily bad, it adds a whole new level of end-game content. The one huge factor that makes half the community vote against it is that it changes how vanilla IC2 works. The centrifuge recipes may allow you to get items in a whole new way but it is definitely unnecessarily confusing. I wouldn't say it's balancing anything, it is unbalanced because it places IC2 in the bottom because every other mod can do stuff much easier, quicker.

If GregTech simply added all the hard content after IC2 without changing vanilla IC2 recipes and mechanics, I'm sure there wouldn't be this much debate over it.

Yet I see people complaining about GregTech adding useless items (silicon cells for example) instead of using old ones.
Many things that GregTech includes have been rejected as IC2 suggestions (e.g. Lightning Rods) this is partly because of the taste of the IC2 makers but also due to balance of IC2. There seems to be no good way to include Lightning Rods into IC2 balance. That imo is part of why GregTech can include them though, it rebalances IC2, which would probably be harder to do without changing IC2 recipes. Also if you ever played on servers with IC2 people just pull out UU matter out of their ten filled diamond chests with it, I like that it is harder to get.

So add new materials => "omg, why new materials we have to learn how to make"
Rebalance old ones => "omg, why weird recipe"
"omg, please don't take my <insert thingy> ressource production through UU" :3

I think at the top-end you'll sitll be able to mass produce UU, but it will be harder to get to, as it should be.

 

[Zjarek_S]

I was recently playing with greg-tech and I must say it renewed my interest in IC2. In my recent worlds I didn't do practically anything big with IC2, because it was feeling dull. For ore processing I switched to FZ, for only a couple thousands of iron you can get ore tripling facility. What's the point of developing power grid, when one non overclocked macerator and one furnace is enough for ore processing (just add hopper or two and some piping, it was more than enough for 2 quarries). For charging lappack one mfe connected to about 10 solars was enough. There was nothing really interesting in IC2 for bigger power, than massfab, but even than making quantum suit with only a couple of solars wasn't taking so long (specially when you do things in other mods). Is there anyone, who were using non upgraded drill in normal IC2? Currently upgrade requires 2 titanium ingots, which need GT blast furnace. It makes normal drill actually useful, the same with bronze tools or survivalist one. For me GT makes IC2 a lot better/more interesting mod. I don't care that other mod makes something easier, I care what is more interesting/fun to build.

 

[Mikey_R]

Not sure which recipe we're talking about but its not like ultra expensive to make the "normal" solars Oo

Well, except the cost of the Industrial centrifuge for the first solar (which easily makes up the cost of it) that is.

 

[SeniLiX]

Well, except the cost of the Industrial centrifuge for the first solar (which easily makes up the cost of it) that is.

But in the end you have free power. It's only fair that if you want something like that, you need to "pay" for it.

 

[ICountFrom0]

and then upgrade it almost instantly to advanced solar... obsolete before you can even make it. Does that seem right?

 

[Mikey_R]

I know, I was saying it's worth it and not just for the solar, for example, centrifuge 3 lots of bauxite and you get 3 titanium and alot of aluminium, use them to make mixed metal ingots and you get 6 per recipe rather than the usual 2. Plus you get hydrogen cells which you can centrifuge into deuterium.

So I do like it and if that didn't come across in my last post (which I did write in a bit of a hurry admittedly) then, my bad

 

[FMan_0000]

Solars are just free power without doing anything, so It's fine that is more expensive. Also, a solar panel is easly upgraded to advanced solar panel, so you get loads of free EU. So I think it's pretty fair the new solar panels reciepe.

 

[Zelfana]

Solars are just free power without doing anything, so It's fine that is more expensive. Also, a solar panel is easly upgraded to advanced solar panel, so you get loads of free EU. So I think it's pretty fair the new solar panels reciepe.

If it is so easily upgraded why is the basic solar even there? It is redundant if you have no use for the basic solar by itself. If it is meant as a component then it shouldn't be a working generator by itself at all.

 

[Mikey_R]

You would have a point if they were from the same mod, however, they aren't. The solar change is Greg Tech and the advanced solars are from the Advanced Solars mods.

 

[Zelfana]

You would have a point if they were from the same mod, however, they aren't. The solar change is Greg Tech and the advanced solars are from the Advanced Solars mods.

Okay? So it's fine because they are different mods. It's not like this is supposed to be a modpack or anything...

 

[Narcisism]

No, they're not. Neither are diamond tools actually.

Diamond tools aren't a must-have? How are you gonna get to the nether?

I don't see the issue in different power grid that everyone seems to be complaining about~
Miners are quite the useful tool, Trade-O-Mats too. And it just adds a whole nice chunk of stuff to do~
But ofc you're free to play the magic pack (which imo isn't very "magical")[DOUBLEPOST=1354802114][/DOUBLEPOST]

By different power grids, s/he means the mixture of IC2 EU, BC2 MJ, RP2 Blutricity, and Factorization's whatever-that-is. Since TE does a lot of the same things as IC2's machines, you could easily just remove IC2 and use TE's machines for the same purpose, and have one less power grid to maintain. The only thing I'd miss is the electric tools, really.

Yet I see people complaining about GregTech adding useless items (silicon cells for example) instead of using old ones.
Many things that GregTech includes have been rejected as IC2 suggestions (e.g. Lightning Rods) this is partly because of the taste of the IC2 makers but also due to balance of IC2. There seems to be no good way to include Lightning Rods into IC2 balance. That imo is part of why GregTech can include them though, it rebalances IC2, which would probably be harder to do without changing IC2 recipes. Also if you ever played on servers with IC2 people just pull out UU matter out of their ten filled diamond chests with it, I like that it is harder to get.

It doesn't NEED to change IC2 recipes to be balanced. It adds huge amounts of really expensive energy storage. It basically could stand on its own as an extension to IC2 that does not much more than adding another tier to the end of the tree. With the AESU and such being expensive as they are, you would have a lot more use for that extra energy from the lightning rod, and the lightning rod doesn't even work all the time anyway. Only reliably when it's storming, and much less reliably when it's regular raining.

So add new materials => "omg, why new materials we have to learn how to make"
Rebalance old ones => "omg, why weird recipe"
"omg, please don't take my <insert thingy> ressource production through UU" :3

I haven't seen many complaints about the new matter fabricator, personally. It's just nearly every other recipe change. Changing the recipes isn't really rebalancing them. It's just making you have to play more "vanilla" MC before you can really get started with the mods, which for many of us isn't fun. We play mods because we're tired of vanilla. More vanilla before we can play with mod stuff isn't fun.

I think at the top-end you'll sitll be able to mass produce UU, but it will be harder to get to, as it should be.

No complaints there. The Matter Fab is probably the only actual change that I truly like. There are some I'm a bit apathetic about (solars), but the Matter Fab is the only one I actually ENJOY.

 

[portablejim]

Diamond tools aren't a must-have? How are you gonna get to the nether?

• Manually turning water to obsidian with buckets so obsidian forms the portal frame
• Using tin cells of water and lava to get obsidian
• Using thermal expansion's igneous extruder with a liquid transposer (and possibly and aqueous accumulator, or using pumps and waterproof pips) and putting in lava and water in so you create obsidian.

 

[Mero]

Diamond tools aren't a must-have? How are you gonna get to the nether

Very easily. I can start the game and doing nothing less than gathering wood and digging down to find 4 iron and 1 flint, I can come back from the nether with netherrack, netherbrick, blaze rods, glowstone, soulsand and magma creams without dying.
On hard mode even.