GregTech Debate Thread
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I had no idea about the snowballs vs. blazes thing. Thanks for droppin' some knowledge! Did you know blaze powder + slimeballs = magma creams? Yeah, you probably did.
Much easier than finding magma cubes.Absolutely it was! But when you compare its cost to give complete fire / lava immunity (albeit for a short while) vs other options that exist / have existed (Fire resistance enchantments, IC2 Quantum Armor, EE2's Ring of Ignition / Vulcanite Amulet) I'm sure you can agree that it is absurdly cheap for what it does.
Yep! I learned it myself only just recently from the official minecraft wiki: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Blaze#StrategyI had no idea about the snowballs vs. blazes thing. Thanks for droppin' some knowledge! Did you know blaze powder + slimeballs = magma creams? Yeah, you probably did.
The full hazmat suit prevents fire damage, but it has low durability. Make sure you bring a few suits along with several stacks of snowballs!
vs Fire resist potion? (water, unlimited. Netherrack, unlimited. Slimeball, mobdrop, farmable. Blazerod (tricky, that's what we're here to get) glass, plentiful (and refunded))
Telling people that is admitting that the change is pointless. If there are better alternatives anyway why change IC2? Not to mention the harder recipe for Macerator isn't in FTB so this is a moot point.
IC2's main appeal is the toys. GT is making getting them a longer process which is what people probably dislike most. But I don't have any real opionions on this matter as I concluded that IC2 isn't really what I want to play when there are other mods. My play developed into fiddling with IC2 and GT because the tools are too good to pass. So I'm playing the Magic Pack now and having more fun when I don't have to focus on one mod.
The most direct comparison I can see is vanilla Potions of Fire Resistance, which require magma creams as an ingredient. When you compare the handful of rubber, orange dye, and iron needed per hazmat suit in comparison it's completely different. And then we haven't even mentioned that the Hazmat suit also allows underwater breathing and reduced fall damage. Honestly, I don't see how anyone could view the hazmat suit as being balanced.
...but we're getting off topic here, this thread is about Gregtech, not hazmat suits.
I would agree with you if the Pulverizer was strictly better than the Macerator in all respects. However, there's several things that the Macerator can do that the Pulverizer can't, here are a few examples:
- Macerate wool into string, which is not easy to come by without rp2 flax or a monster grinder
- Macerate a blaze rod into 5 blaze powders, which is the best way to convert in FTB
- Macerate Monazit into Forcicium, which is absolutely needed if you want to play with MFFS
- And lastly, macerate coal into coal dust to manufacture diamonds or advanced IC2 blocks and toys
Not to mention that Macerators can be upgraded into Rotary Macerators or given overclockers to have them process ores much faster than Pulverizers. I would argue that for a built-up base of operations that Macerators are the far superior choice, and I will stand by my earlier statement that for a starting out world that Pulverizers are the stronger choice.
1. Wool card, redpower 2. Yes, RP2 isn't in yet, but I don't see Elo taking it out for being overpowered.
2. No, it's not the most. You can get more from a rockcrusher or from the GT industrial grinder.
3. Monazit will get into the ore dictionary and be properly ground by other machines, eventually.
4. Agreed, coal into coaldust, only can be done by ic2. Is only needed by ic2. Slows down progress nicely for Ic2.
It's funny though, if 3 had been intentional, and from the fact that you can convert forcium with MJ's, I'm sure it's not, I would write this up as just making MFFS another mod damaged by having GT on the server.
2. No, it's not the most. You can get more from a rockcrusher or from the GT industrial grinder.
3. Monazit will get into the ore dictionary and be properly ground by other machines, eventually.
4. Agreed, coal into coaldust, only can be done by ic2. Is only needed by ic2. Slows down progress nicely for Ic2.
It's funny though, if 3 had been intentional, and from the fact that you can convert forcium with MJ's, I'm sure it's not, I would write this up as just making MFFS another mod damaged by having GT on the server.
My mistake, I'm trying to do all this from memory. I do recall that it has a better return than a Pulverizer though.
For what it's worth, I believe (unless I'm reading the notes wrong... I haven't tested yet) coal/charcoal dust can be made in the Pulverizer since version 2.1.0 of Thermal Expansion (2.1.3 is the most current). I believe every version after 2.0.5 or so require Minecraft 1.4.5 which is why it's not in FTB yet.
Thermal Expansion Patch Notes
2.1.0
-Added: Pulverizer Ore Dictionary support for Coal and Charcoal Dust.
Right, that makes it official, there's no reason for the recipe that gregarious wrote to make the macerator harder.
Anyone that denies that the changes GT makes to other mods IC2 included serve almost any other purpose than artificially lengthening the time needed to play the mods to their fullest extent is a fool. On the same note anyone who believes the custom items added by GT are useless/not well done/etc. Is also a fool. He ought separate the two things or make it much easier to manipulate.
So I am apparently very late to the debate but as an Advanced MC player I have been waiting for something like GregTech for a very long time. MC is way too easy and mods made it worse although more interesting. With GregTech gone are the days of having a diamond drill in 30 minutes and a full bank of solar panels in a 4 hours. I seriously doubt i will be able to make my usual 5 nukes in two weeks like i typically do. IC2 farms for advanced game? Really? Please. Fusion Reactor now there is a goal.
It's funny how people complain about EE to the point where the Mod maker remakes it to deal with the easy mode but as soon as someone else does the same thing for IC/Forestry/Railcraft they have a fit.
I am loving that working to get power is hard now and I actually have to plan to do it. I am 4 days in no and I still don't have a diamond drill. Awesome.
I am also loving that finally someone it tying the mods together is something of a cohesive manner.
If you just want easy mode or creative good for you. But if you want something more challenging than putting a few diamonds in a crafting table and pulling out a quarry GT is the way to go. I dare you to try GT without draining the nether with mystcraft cheese.
I dare you.
PS. Etho is a smart guy. Probably smarter than you. Leave him to play his game. He learned MC the same way he is learning the Mods. By doing and failing and then learning. Something I wish more people did.
It's funny how people complain about EE to the point where the Mod maker remakes it to deal with the easy mode but as soon as someone else does the same thing for IC/Forestry/Railcraft they have a fit.
I am loving that working to get power is hard now and I actually have to plan to do it. I am 4 days in no and I still don't have a diamond drill. Awesome.
I am also loving that finally someone it tying the mods together is something of a cohesive manner.
If you just want easy mode or creative good for you. But if you want something more challenging than putting a few diamonds in a crafting table and pulling out a quarry GT is the way to go. I dare you to try GT without draining the nether with mystcraft cheese.
I dare you.
PS. Etho is a smart guy. Probably smarter than you. Leave him to play his game. He learned MC the same way he is learning the Mods. By doing and failing and then learning. Something I wish more people did.
Just a reminder to everyone: This is a DEBATE thread. Debate means you give reasons for your opinions, explain your point of view, listen to an argument, then provide a counter-argument.
Calling everyone who disagrees with you a "fool" is NOT how debate works. Please keep the insults out of this thread. I know it's a semi-controversial topic, but the forum rules DO still apply, and I will alert a moderator if it gets out of hand.
Thanks,
~Narc
First off there are far too many mini-mods on this forum. Don't add to it.
Second it is an opinion and I did say that it adds unnecessary length to the game yet adds wonderful end items. If you care to refute that please have at it. Also if you find it an insult that I personally consider you a fool if you think some particular way; too bad. I was insulting no one in particular merely expressing my opinion of those that think the opposite of what I said.
E:
Also @Xaviorm adding tedious farming to the game is not adding challenge. It's adding wait time. If you have the time to waste; good for you. I doubt most people want to dedicate triple the time to achieve the same end result with less satisfaction due to unnecessary convolution.
wow just wow ...... as Narcisism has said this is a "debate thread" absolutely nothing is to be made personal if you have opinions you are free to share them but you have to be willing to accept the opinions of other people as well.... As I was writing this you then directed another personal attack at a member of the forums. so a warning has been issued.
Now down to this thread ....... I'm leaving it locked for now I might open it back up once you guys have had a chance to thing about the point you are all trying to make.
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