gregtech block breaker nerf

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MFINN23

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Jul 29, 2019
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Well maybe if you created mods as opposed to just consuming them you'd have a slighty different opinion. What I think is interesting is your implicit assumption that the recipe database for Minecraft is somehow read-only and once someone puts it there, it's essential that remain untouched. Why is that? It's a shared resource for all mods, isn't it? But let's go further: this is helping.

A modmaker now has a brutal task in game balancing: considering lots of other modpacks. Plus+, Big Dig, FTB, Technic, all these folks include a variety of modpacks and even with the best of intentions balance breaks occur. For example, FTB's modpacks have a few. A simple example in the DW20 modpack: with any ore doubler machine and a Minium stone, you can have infinite blaze rods. Once you have one, you can infinitely clone them limited only by power and minium shard availability. So if someone adding an ore doubler notices this and says, "Hey, EE. I'm here, so ima gonna fix that for you," that is a service to the user and quite frankly to Pahimar, who has enough on his plate dealing with making an exciting and well written mod.

A great example of this is a discussion I just had with MachineMuse about the expense of her gregtech recipies. Among other things (i.e., misconfigurations in the mod that were propagated by the FTB launcher and bad habits of server maintainers such as myself), Gravisuite introduced a new item that basically blew open the design space for mid-tier flight and crazily enough, everyone seems to agree the result is good and not unbalancing. But now MPS flight looks so expensive that it's not worth the comparative cost since you can keep all the MPS speed by never, ever using the MPS chest, and basically lose nothing. MPS probably needs to compensate for this, but MachineMuses had no way to anticipate this.

In another universe where MPS is much more popular and established, Gravisuite might have offered a config option to turn the cost of the recipes down for MachineMuses. She might have been a bit confused then said, "Oh, I see. Interesting." Maybe she'd be mad, maybe not. Hypotheticals in other people's head are not my forté, I leave that to the mediums. In any case, the user experience would be a lot better and there's a lot to be said for that.

Greg, like or hate him, completely changes the game. He adds a very different pacing and progression to Minecraft and he tries to listen to his users and have his mod adapt to what they're saying. So if lots of people play Mindcrack his mod starts to grow into Mindcrack's headspace and tweak things to preserve the experience he wants. This is a pretty bold plan, when you think about it. But it's also not really KingLemming or CovertJaguar or SirSengir's job to anticipate greg in their mod design, but Greg can react to his users. That is what his mod does.

If you don't like that mod, you can pull it. Everything goes back to normal. No one's IP has been stolen, no one's code has been hacked, no one's feelings should be hurt. Forge deliberately makes this possible because mod interaction is what has to happen these days to make a coherent experience. This is exactly the same stuff that's at play with Forestry and Buildcraft. And Liquid Metals and Universal Electricity. And MineFactory Reloaded and PowerConverters. These things are here because people want them, Forge purposefully enables them, and they are popular and used.

[DOUBLEPOST=1364066037][/DOUBLEPOST]

I feel pretty awesome about starting this meme here since I did a forum search and turned up empty. But protip: the proper formulation is to call them Galahad at the end. Like, "I hate to use the cliché; but slow your roll, Galahad."

36554065.jpg


Please continue to drone on, I'm sure everyone likes hearing you speak as much as you do yourself.
 
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KirinDave

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haters_fb62b5_2448292.gif


My image holster folder is ready for you and every shenanigan you can imagine.

Please continue to drone on, I'm sure everyone likes hearing you speak as much as you do yourself.

Meanwhile today I hit my 250th post like. To be quite honest I'm as baffled as you are. I certainly don't get it either! But I guess like Smaug, I'm gonna sit here on my pile of internet treasure totally oblivious to its value, unable to spend it, yet acutely aware of how much of it I have. I'd just put me on ignore and let me chatter at the void if I were you. Actually I would have done that about 4 posts ago...
 
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ICountFrom0

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Aug 21, 2012
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So.
I can say, "I dislike this" and others can say the same thing, and say that it is disrespectful, and should not be done.
And the most common reply is, "it can be done, so it gets done" and "don't white knight" but that does not address things properly.

And people act like there is nothing wrong?

Consistently any time anybody has made changes, or asked about changes, the answer has always been that the author of the mod has her own vision, and does not want it added to, reinterpreted, or changed. How is altering the result of a blockbreaker not a change? How is it not interference? And thus, how is it not rude?

Okay, so maybe gt is worth it, even with the rude behavior, or maybe most people just don't care as long as they get an end product that they can live with. I just thought FTB has higher standards.
 

DoctorOr

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Jul 29, 2019
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So.
I can say, "I dislike this" and others can say the same thing, and say that it is disrespectful, and should not be done.
And the most common reply is, "it can be done, so it gets done" and "don't white knight" but that does not address things properly.

And people act like there is nothing wrong?

There is nothing wrong with modders modifying games and allowing those mods to be applied to other peoples games. Full Stop. No discussion.

Nothing changes just because that game is an already modified game.
 
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Dravarden

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Jul 29, 2019
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So, if I made something, and I said, "don't change it" it wouldn't be wrong if somebody changed it?
Feels bad to me.

he doesn't change the recipe at redpower's, he changes minecraft's way to read the recipe, or something like that.

like, there is a box (recipe), and you can't touch it, but you put a fake box (another recipe) in front of it so the person that comes to 'grab the box' (minecraft to load the recipe) it grabs the first, fake one.
 

ICountFrom0

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Yes, I see that you understand how it works, but I also see that you don't understand that I think the interference is rude.

It's technologically possible, just like so many other things, but it does not make it polite.

The standards of politeness are higher then legal requirements, higher then technical ability, and higher then even moral standards.

Not everybody is going to be polite, I know this. Not everybody is going to be moral, I understand this. Not everybody is going to be legal, I comprehend that. Some people are going to do it, just because they can.

It's still not polite.


If asked to not interfere with X, Y, Z. And then you produce the same exact effect as if you'd interfered with X, Y, or Z. You've still gone against the stated wishes of another person.

I'm not saying it's impossible.
I'm not saying it's illegal.
I'm not even saying that it's immoral.

I'm just saying it's rude.

I understand that you might not agree, and that's okay, I'm just keeping a higher standard. My big complaint is that I thought FTB was about keeping a higher standard.

Go ahead, tell me that I thought wrong, go ahead, break my heart.
 

Dravarden

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Jul 29, 2019
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Yes, I see that you understand how it works, but I also see that you don't understand that I think the interference is rude.

It's technologically possible, just like so many other things, but it does not make it polite.

The standards of politeness are higher then legal requirements, higher then technical ability, and higher then even moral standards.

Not everybody is going to be polite, I know this. Not everybody is going to be moral, I understand this. Not everybody is going to be legal, I comprehend that. Some people are going to do it, just because they can.

It's still not polite.


If asked to not interfere with X, Y, Z. And then you produce the same exact effect as if you'd interfered with X, Y, or Z. You've still gone against the stated wishes of another person.

I'm not saying it's impossible.
I'm not saying it's illegal.
I'm not even saying that it's immoral.

I'm just saying it's rude.

I understand that you might not agree, and that's okay, I'm just keeping a higher standard. My big complaint is that I thought FTB was about keeping a higher standard.

Go ahead, tell me that I thought wrong, go ahead, break my heart.

I do not agree? dude, I hate greg and his nerfs! whatever he does, even if me makes rain be diamonds, will be wrong at my eyes, but yeah, I do find it rude, just like him changing every recipe he doesn't need to touch.

greg needs to learn from people like Immibis, he can (and he did) make his microblocks work with redpower's pneumatics, but he disabled that, because he has respect.
 

Dravarden

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Jul 29, 2019
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Blockbreaker is an optional config.

@Dravarden you just GregTech just admit it, not the nerf.

I just gregtech

wut

I think you mean hate, detest, abhor, loathe, abominate, excrate, dislike, despise, hatred, odium or abhorrence (google, yay!)


and well, I can also make a mod that changes everything in redpower (by breaking copyright and shit) but put it optional in the config, so if they sue me, I'd say ''oh, is optional only, not my problem.
 
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noskk

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Jul 29, 2019
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I just gregtech

wut

and well, I can also make a mod that changes everything in redpower (by breaking copyright and shit) but put it optional in the config, so if they sue me, I'd say ''oh, is optional only, not my problem.

lol forgot the word *hate*, will IC2 sue Railcraft author because he make an optional config for steel instead of refined iron? maybe..
 

Dravarden

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Jul 29, 2019
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lol forgot the word *hate*, will IC2 sue Railcraft author because he make an optional config for steel instead of refined iron? maybe..

nope, because CJ is cool with that, and doesn't cry like a baby when somebody touches ''my precious!'' mod.
 

CrafterOfMines57

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Jul 29, 2019
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and well, I can also make a mod that changes everything in redpower (by breaking copyright and shit) but put it optional in the config, so if they sue me, I'd say ''oh, is optional only, not my problem.
Except that that is different. GregTech in no way breaks copyright, I would assume reflection is used (even though reflection is not necessary to remove a recipe), that is completely within legal grounds.
 

noskk

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Jul 29, 2019
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nope, because CJ is cool with that, and doesn't cry like a baby when somebody touches ''my precious!'' mod.

Well we'll see if RP2 author has any time to sue an IC2 add-on author lol..
Why everyone is flaming GT for this optional nerf?
Oh yeah that's because Greg did it.. yeah it's probably true.

@Dravarden if you didn't see the last edit: why do you hate GregTech so much? I heard it's because of bauxite and implosion compressor..
 
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