Dartcraft, why even?

[BananaSplit2]

Is my idea of fun a problem for you? If so...well, sorry, but I'm going to have to say "tough shit.

Unless I'm mistaken, this pack isn't yours. It's a general pack which should work for the average everyone, meaning medium difficulty, with mods that can be added to make it easier or harder. It shouldn't be easy mode by default. This is the whole contrary of what the Ultimate pack did. Some like a progression in the game, and don't want instagod mode to make huge machines

If you want easy mode fine, I don't care, but then try not to think just about yourself and especially think about servers, in which dartcraft kills even more the need to play with other players, as it makes you near god in 5 minutes, and considering most server will keep "vanilla" modpack settings. And don't come with the argument of "don't care, don't use", that one is a ridiculous argument thrown everywhere all the time, it isn't that easy. (if we are to apply it how about we make a modpack with every mods in existence and we just don't use the ones we don't need ? wouldn't that feel stupid ?)

Also damn, it feels like DartCraft is there for the only reason that Direwolf20 covered it in a spotlight. It comes out of nowhere. Is the rule to add any mod that relates to technical mods, balanced or not, in the packs ?

 

[cynric]

I wasn't wearing infinite power, but it would have drained the tool if that's all there was. You'll need a batpack. I was wearing an adv nano (with no infinite power generating MPS)

I just tested this (and thanks btw., I had my mode key unbound because I don't use the IC2 tools anymore, so I really didn't know about the aoe mode). You use about 3k EU per 3x3x3 block you pick. So the tool alone is empty after 5 picks, a batpack would be empty after 20 uses IIRC. That is a lot of energy consumed, but I really don't know how that compares to other methods of mining.

 

[Dee_Twenty]

tss, Dartcraft is just the proof that everyone here just wants an easier and faster game. It is arguably the complete inverse of Greg Tech, as "broken" as GT is, but yet it's defended (with nearly the same arguments than for Greg Tech actually aka "dont like, dont use it" and co) heavily. I don't know if it's just hypocrisy or laziness

Yes, imagine that, people playing with mods that add all sorts of options for automating the process of gathering resources, from quarries to mining lasers to farms of many varieties, multiple forms of flight from several types of power armour to thaumic harnesses, multitools, unbreakable and self repairing tools, do so for the sake of making certain parts of the game easier.

 

[Skyqula]

Unless I'm mistaken, this pack isn't yours. It's a general pack which should work for the average everyone, meaning medium difficulty, with mods that can be added to make it easier or harder.

Sounds like you want the GT pack, wich is "hardmode" by default btw This pack is for those not interested in that play style hence defaults to "easy". Wich honestly is not the correct wording...

 

[The_Enemys]

Sounds like you want the GT pack, wich is "hardmode" by default btw This pack is for those not interested in that play style hence defaults to "easy". Wich honestly is not the correct wording...

Dartcraft and GregTech are at opposite ends of the difficulty scale, with vanilla Minecraft in the middle seeking a mainstream level. Offering one or the other, not both or neither misses everything in the middle, as well as all of the other ways to make the game easier or harder that wouldn't necessarily appeal to fans of either mod. For instance, GregTech makes Minecraft crafting more complex and resource consumption higher, but some people would rather crafting stay the same and mobs get tougher. Meanwhile some people might want EE2 alchemy style easy mode rather than Force themed easy mode. And, most importantly, most people want something on the middle on terms of raw difficulty, with various tastes, which neither GregTech nor Dartcraft really cater for.

Of course, I reckon we as a community should really embrace the availability of mods targeting niche interests exist, because by applying the correct mix Minecraft can almost perfectly match the play style of almost everyone. This attitude would of course require more specialised mod packs, because 2 mod packs will leave many unhappy and they end up complaining about the mod, rather than requesting more packs.

Edits made for spelling and clarity, and addition of the comment about additional mod packs.

 

[DoctorOr]

I just tested this (and thanks btw., I had my mode key unbound because I don't use the IC2 tools anymore, so I really didn't know about the aoe mode). You use about 3k EU per 3x3x3 block you pick. So the tool alone is empty after 5 picks, a batpack would be empty after 20 uses IIRC. That is a lot of energy consumed, but I really don't know how that compares to other methods of mining.

Check out Poppy's video

 

[siebharrin]

Its quite obvious that the ones complaining about dartcraft is playing SMP with the intent of 'competing' with other players and disagree with their server admins goals of the server.
If the complainers liked the mod and just thought it was OP, they would have taken to the minecraft forums and tried to talk to the developer directly - trying to influence him to have more config options or balance things directly.
But instead you post "omg omg omg dartcraft op" on both reddit and here in an effort to cook up pressure to change dartcraft into how you want to play the game instead of you playing the game the gracious developer envisioned. Dartcraft is beta, unleashed is beta - be constructive.

As a grand gesture of friendship I offer you solutions. And the solutions are easy:
1: remove dartcraft - only takes 3-4 clicks in your launcher for SSP, or admins remove one file from the servers mod directory (as far as I remember).
2: Play unhinged - as thats what the majority who argue wants, but they don't want to add mods to it (yes, overgeneralizing).
3: Show self restraint. Be proud of what you do and how you do it. Stop being insecure and compare yourself to others. Minecraft is about having fun and thriving, not see who can get the furthest or live longest (unless you play PvP servers, which again leaves which mods are added into the server admins domain)

EDIT: I do admit though, that I've been on the other side of this.. complaining about the greg. I should just have tried to talk him into more config options.

 

[DoctorOr]

Its quite obvious that the ones complaining about dartcraft is playing SMP with the intent of 'competing' with other players and disagree with their server admins goals of the server.

Actually, I quite like the idea of Dartcraft. It's just so easy it takes over the entire game. What I don't like are singular best methods for anything.

After a big chunk of bug fixing, maybe some realizations that some intents are simply wrong (Fortune V, for one) and retuning the recipes it would be a fine mod.

I have similar issues with MPS in that it becomes a singular choice. In the end, the smart players will use MPS for travelling and building, but do mining with dartcraft power drill instead of that stupid hand. Then when they go fight mobs like the wither or the TE bosses, switch to a full Dartcraft suit. And the problem is that everybody will do exactly that because that path is so clearly Best Methodology.

And because these mods are so powerful, somebody else will make something to top them and it just becomes a race to PHENOMENAL COSMIC POWERS !

 

[cynric]

Check out Poppy's video

Right, that is crazy. Not sure how you could balance it though. If you increase the power draw to actually make a dent in the almost-infinite power supply the top of the line electric armors provide, it is pretty unusable without. I'd actually blame the crazy amount of power those suits provide for the imbalance. Just think about it, you are basically carrying around 512 square meter of solar power on your head with the ultimate solar helmet. The tool can store 15k eu, with the armors you carry around tens of millions of eu.

Btw. each single use of the tool basically eats the energy of a 3/4 piece of coal/charcoal, which is pretty impressive for just 27 blocks mined.

 

[Dee_Twenty]

I have similar issues with MPS in that it becomes a singular choice. In the end, the smart players will use MPS for travelling and building, but do mining with dartcraft power drill instead of that stupid hand. Then when they go fight mobs like the wither or the TE bosses, switch to a full Dartcraft suit. And the problem is that everybody will do exactly that because that path is so clearly Best Methodology.

I disagree, it may be efficient but it's not necessarily the most fun. I, for one, don't really care if there's some power tool that can mine an entire chunk down to bedrock in ten seconds flat, I'd still rather use my trust alumite pick, Pinkie Pie, just because I find it much more fun to use a pick unique to me, similarly I don't really care about the effectiveness of the MPS, I use it purely because I like customising its appearance to suit my taste, heck I don't even use it for its flight as the flight controls are wonky, I prefer the thaumostatic harness for that job.

 

[KirinDave]

Right, that is crazy. Not sure how you could balance it though. If you increase the power draw to actually make a dent in the almost-infinite power supply the top of the line electric armors provide, it is pretty unusable without. I'd actually blame the crazy amount of power those suits provide for the imbalance. Just think about it, you are basically carrying around 512 square meter of solar power on your head with the ultimate solar helmet. The tool can store 15k eu, with the armors you carry around tens of millions of eu.

Btw. each single use of the tool basically eats the energy of a 3/4 piece of coal/charcoal, which is pretty impressive for just 27 blocks mined.

The Force Drill is, um, more problematic in C+ mode.

The absolutely insane outcome is when you combine the infinite power positivity of MPS with the drill. I always sort of dismissed the drill compared to hammers with double moss and double Redstone, but I suppose this interaction does beat that. In stand corrected, it is possible to cheese this to make something better than TiCO T2 tools. Note though that you can get this performance from TiCo tools, just not in perpetuity.

 

[Jakeb]

Your block breaker frame won't come close either.[DOUBLEPOST=1375019532][/DOUBLEPOST]

I wasn't wearing infinite power, but it would have drained the tool if that's all there was. You'll need a batpack. I was wearing an adv nano (with no infinite power generating MPS)

Block breaker frame? Who uses those anymore? I was talking about my 64 long mining well frame quarry, or my 8-16 laser drills.

 

[Jakeb]

My point is that while the drill may be "OP" compared to other manual mining options, the argument could be made that those other options are very under powered compared to almost every automated mining machine out there. Which they are. The drill just bridges the massive gap in performance between the manual and automated ways of doing things.

 

[Zelfana]

But why would manual mining need to be super effective? It's not supposed to be the method to go to for everyone. If you enjoy manual mining you enjoy it without those ridiculous tools and if you don't enjoy manual mining you won't enjoy it even with those powerful tools at least after a while. Inventory management becomes tedious when you have to do it every 10 seconds.

Let's take Fortune for example. Level III is the best way to process some ores already without having better Fortune. Silk Touch for others some depending on if you have GT or not. So why should we have better levels of Fortune available when it isn't supposed to go past III? And it is also a delicate process choosing between Silk Touch and Fortune as needed, with both of them active via DartCraft armor you can just ignore everything and blast away everything without even caring what it is you are blasting exactly.

Besides, without GT you don't even need all that much of mining, manual or automated. And there's no RP2 in Unleashed either so there's even less stuff to mine.

And the point about player commitment is debunked with Quartz Grindstone. The only thing you are doing with that is using yourself as the fuel and it's even slower than the Macerator or Pulverizer. So manual grinding is less effective, why make manual mining better either? And don't bring the turtle automation to this, it is unintended. Besides, is there really anything you can do manually that is the most effective way? No, and you know why? You can build automated processes infinitely but you are still only one person.

 

[Skyqula]

But why would manual mining need to be super effective? It's not supposed to be the method to go to for everyone. If you enjoy manual mining you enjoy it without those ridiculous tools and if you don't enjoy manual mining you won't enjoy it even with those powerful tools at least after a while. Inventory management becomes tedious when you have to do it every 10 seconds.

Because some people would like to stay competitive or atleast have the feeling that there time spend mining was actually usefull? Also, Dartcraft bags takes care of inventory management. Especially when you get the ender variant.

Let's take Fortune for example. Level III is the best way to process some ores already without having better Fortune. Silk Touch for others some depending on if you have GT or not. So why should we have better levels of Fortune available when it isn't supposed to go past III? And it is also a delicate process choosing between Silk Touch and Fortune as needed, with both of them active via DartCraft armor you can just ignore everything and blast away everything without even caring what it is you are blasting exactly.

Why do we have macerators/pulverizer? They go beyond vanilla in adding fortune to iron/gold/copper/etc. Metals where not supposed to be affected by fortune yet these machines allow it! Crazy! (I am actually serious here, if fortune IV/V is OP then so is the macerator/pulverizer).

Then there is also the vanilla reasoning behind fortune vs silk toch. Space. Redstone dust for example wich quickly clutter your inventory, but silk touching it to mine it with fortune later saves massive amounts of space.

And the point about player commitment is debunked with Quartz Grindstone. The only thing you are doing with that is using yourself as the fuel and it's even slower than the Macerator or Pulverizer. So manual grinding is less effective, why make manual mining better either? Besides, is there really anything you can do manually that is the most effective way? No, and you know why? You can build automated processes infinitely but you are still only one person.

The Quartz grindstone, just like the clockwork engine, are meant as starting items. Just like your first pick is a wooden pick. The dartcraft tools are midgame, where as the drill/T2 TiC are endgame. As for what i can do better manually, everything untill you upscale automation beyond reason. As it stands alot of the automated farms already provide all you need in there smallest format. Something you can easely keep up with with manual farms. It starts to go crazy when you make huge farms and end up with "hey i got a million of X and everything else".

Dont get me wrong though, i think the power drill is not balanced. But the problem here lies with IC2 and its exponential power system, huge storage spaces and the Armor suits basing there energy system around it.

 

[Dee_Twenty]

Then there is also the vanilla reasoning behind fortune vs silk toch. Space. Redstone dust for example wich quickly clutter your inventory, but silk touching it to mine it with fortune later saves massive amounts of space.

I would say that's kind of a moot point since they added redstone blocks, now you can easily convert 9 stacks of redstone dust into one stack of redstone blocks.

 

[Skyqula]

I would say that's kind of a moot point since they added redstone blocks, now you can easily convert 9 stacks of redstone dust into one stack of redstone blocks.

Sure, if you want to spend the time doing that. Note that in vanilla that requires making crafting benches and needs to be done alot and not just with redstone dust. Makes me loves those portable crafting grids more and more <3

In this particulair case, i woudnt want to fortune redstone/coal because i already got to much of it. Id rather silk it and let a pulverizer deal with it if i did need it.

 

[Poppycocks]

The Force Drill is, um, more problematic in C+ mode.

 

[Zjarek_S]

T2 TiC are endgame.

T2 TiC aren't endgame. Even stone lumber axe is a huge help in cutting down trees (and collecting apples for golden ones), which you can get access to with only 18 iron ore for tool forge. In my latest UHS world I had it before iron pick, because I was unlucky in finding copper.

 

[Hoff]

The Force Drill is, um, more problematic in C+ mode.

I knew that looked a little odd lol.