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gattsuru

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
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Has anyone here played much with the new Buildcraft energy network yet? The lossless pipes, lossy machines deal? I've been wondering about some details and am looking for someone to discuss with.
A bit, although I'll admit that my use patterns are a little unusual (combustion engines over steam boilers for power, and more Forestry stuff on the central power stack than most people like). Any question in particular striking you?
So how are people running custom mod packs on the ftb launcher with out touching the default instal? o.o
Generally, by importing the instance into MultiMC and not using the FTB Launcher after that point. It's possible to trick the FTB Launcher into containing two instances of the same modpack, but doing so can be irritating and I'm pretty sure it's unsupported.
 

Omicron

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Jul 29, 2019
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A bit, although I'll admit that my use patterns are a little unusual (combustion engines over steam boilers for power, and more Forestry stuff on the central power stack than most people like). Any question in particular striking you?

Well, I've noticed that many machines have an idle draw of 1 MJ/t. There are also a number of engines that will produce 1 MJ/t (or even take one that produces 6, and connect it to 6 consumers). There is obviously an issue there. Now, I've seen in various changelog blurbs things about improving the behavior of machines so that weak engines have a chance to overcome the idle draw. Like, from Forestry here. "(...) increased the minimum power required for input to make sure even low-energy (sic) engines can overcome the power loss."

I'm kind of interested in how that is solved mechanically, and what it means for setups involving low-power engines. And, considering this is Buildcraft, the power output of the engine may not be the only factor, but also its stroke length (and thereby the actual aount of energy it bursts out per stroke).
 

Dragonsama

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Jul 29, 2019
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does anyone know when xycraft will be released for 1.5.2. I know soryan wants to take it to 1.6 but I seem to recall they were using it on the forgecraft 2 server witch was 1.5.2.
 

gattsuru

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
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Well, I've noticed that many machines have an idle draw of 1 MJ/t. There are also a number of engines that will produce 1 MJ/t (or even take one that produces 6, and connect it to 6 consumers). There is obviously an issue there. Now, I've seen in various changelog blurbs things about improving the behavior of machines so that weak engines have a chance to overcome the idle draw. Like, from Forestry here. "(...) increased the minimum power required for input to make sure even low-energy (sic) engines can overcome the power loss."

I'm kind of interested in how that is solved mechanically, and what it means for setups involving low-power engines. And, considering this is Buildcraft, the power output of the engine may not be the only factor, but also its stroke length (and thereby the actual aount of energy it bursts out per stroke).
For the base BuildCraft operations, most machines simply won't work, and that seems to be intended behavior. Lasers, Quarries, Fillers, Refineries are all set to consume 1MJ/T explicitly, and either have small ranges between their MinActivationEnergy and MinEnergyReceive values and thus or otherwise won't operate without a sizable amount of spare juice in the circuit. Other operators are more interesting.

At least with Forestry 2.2.8, the issue was that individual devices would pull many small units of energy down from the central network, and then end up with enough loss that no actual work would be done. With Forestry 2.2.8.3, SirSegnir changed all Forestry Machines to have significantly higher minimum packet sizes, usually at least double minimum activation energy. This means that they should always get some work done every time they pull power from the central network, but it does affect actions at the low-power end. It's almost a mirror of how BuildCraft stroke length works. The big practical difference is that it'll take slightly longer for machines to warm up, and the engines running them will see higher base energy values.
 

Omicron

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Jul 29, 2019
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That is... more of a band-aid than a real solution, then. Unsatisfying.

But well, I've voiced my opinion on the entire system concept already, no need to rehash it <___< Thanks for the info anyway.
 

unspunreality

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Question. On vanilla I have an underwater base/train station. But I need to fill my walls with bookcases.

tl;dr

Can I grow stuff underground? Atleast sugar cane if not everything else? Do torches sub for light for them to grow?
 

unspunreality

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Jul 29, 2019
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Yes. They will grow with just torchlight.


Do they need to be in any special positions or just like regular farmland? Thank god for being able to grow underground though. My normal farm is like a billion blocks away, going from underwater to it would kill me. Guess Ill take this time to figure out how to grow mushrooms and just plant everything possible.
 

ApSciLiara

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Jul 29, 2019
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Do they need to be in any special positions or just like regular farmland? Thank god for being able to grow underground though. My normal farm is like a billion blocks away, going from underwater to it would kill me. Guess Ill take this time to figure out how to grow mushrooms and just plant everything possible.

Sugarcane needs to be planted on a grass, dirt, or sand block with at least one water block (source or flowing, doesn't matter) next to it. But that shouldn't be too hard!
 

unspunreality

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Jul 29, 2019
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Sugarcane needs to be planted on a grass, dirt, or sand block with at least one water block (source or flowing, doesn't matter) next to it. But that shouldn't be too hard!


Er. I meant via lighting. If lights needed to be above to simulate light or if just putting it in corners of a 9x9 square would work.
 

gattsuru

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
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That is... more of a band-aid than a real solution, then. Unsatisfying.
Yeah. At the very least, I'd prefer if BuildCraft had a config option to set the default and BuildCraft-specific powerPerdition values. There's a number of modpacks where the current values will obviate the use of a lot of BuildCraft-based machinery.
Will a light source (glowstone, lamps, fire, lava, torches) outside of loaded chunks continue to produce light and prevent mobs from spawning in a loaded chunk?
That's a complicated question. Unloading chunks doesn't seem to reliably trigger a lighting update, even though loading chunks with light sources in them does seem to force a lighting update. I'd expect the behavior to become a little unpredictable in extreme edge cases.

In practice, it's likely a moot point, since mobs over 128 blocks away from a player will instantly despawn (and those between 32 and 128 blocks will despawn over a minute).
 

Jakeb

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Jul 29, 2019
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As sort of a follow up to my previous question, does forestry, and by extension extra bees + trees, require buildcraft to be installed? Or can I get by with just Thermal Expansion?
 

BlackFire

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Jul 29, 2019
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As sort of a follow up to my previous question, does forestry, and by extension extra bees + trees, require buildcraft to be installed? Or can I get by with just Thermal Expansion?
It does not require it but it is HIGHLY recommended.
 

gattsuru

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
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As sort of a follow up to my previous question, does forestry, and by extension extra bees + trees, require buildcraft to be installed? Or can I get by with just Thermal Expansion?
It'll run without crashing, although I warn that it will change some recipes, often to more expensive variants. The lack of item pipes (or major power sources for AE/Infinitubes) may be an issue for automation, however
 

Jakeb

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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It'll run without crashing, although I warn that it will change some recipes, often to more expensive variants. The lack of item pipes (or major power sources for AE/Infinitubes) may be an issue for automation, however

What recipes does it change exactly?
And the major power sources thing won't be a problem. The reason I'm asking is that I'm thinking of putting together a smaller modpack for 1.6.2, with a focus on UE mods as well as thermal expansion, forestry, and mfr.
 

BlackFire

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Jul 29, 2019
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What recipes does it change exactly?
And the major power sources thing won't be a problem. The reason I'm asking is that I'm thinking of putting together a smaller modpack for 1.6.2, with a focus on UE mods as well as thermal expansion, forestry, and mfr.
Thinking about item transport, will mfr conveyer-belts play nice with tesseracts? Never tried.

EDIT: I take that back, just remembered mfr has a block that picks up the item an deposits it in the adjacent inventory, ie. tesserract.
 

gattsuru

Well-Known Member
May 25, 2013
364
103
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What recipes does it change exactly?
I've not tried it long enough to have a comprehensive list, but gears change to use ingots as the center rather than wooden gears -- and thus any engine, many farm blocks, and some other components will have slightly different costs.
And the major power sources thing won't be a problem. The reason I'm asking is that I'm thinking of putting together a smaller modpack for 1.6.2, with a focus on UE mods as well as thermal expansion, forestry, and mfr.
That should work, although MFR makes a number of design assumptions that work best where some form of strong item transportation is available.

Note that the 1.6.2 version of Applied Energistics (versions beyond rv11d-1.6.2) may not support UE as a power source, although the changelogs have been cryptic about how long-term this will be (and I've not tested it with Universal Cable).
 

Jakeb

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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I've not tried it long enough to have a comprehensive list, but gears change to use ingots as the center rather than wooden gears -- and thus any engine, many farm blocks, and some other components will have slightly different costs.

That should work, although MFR makes a number of design assumptions that work best where some form of item transportation is available.

Note that the 1.6.2 version of Applied Energistics (versions beyond rv11d-1.6.2) may not support UE as a power source, although the changelogs have been cryptic about how long-term this will be.

Hmm, that change could range from either mildly annoying to crippling, as AE would be the main form of item transportation in this modpack.
None of those other changes seem like they would be crippling, but I will have to play around with it in 1.5.2 to know for sure.