An idea to prevent Nether lava exploitation
- Thread starter MrZwij
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You realize this is a bug right? It's not just the saplings it harvests, but any saplings/apples it picks up, meaning you can throw a stack of saplings on top of the hatch (probably anywhere in its pickup radius to be honest) and get 4 stacks out of the farm. Try it and you'll see that it's a pretty big bug when you actually realize what's going on and why it'll have to get changed...otherwise you'll have people running a system that simply loops saplings in and out of the farm while another part draws some of the saplings out - free saplings without any apatite needed. In fact, I can tell you a system off the top of my head - attach either a filter on a timer or a bc pipe with autarchic gate on a hatch on the top part of the farm and have another hatch connected to where you want the duped saplings to go. So, say, a filter on top on a 2 second timer, with a filter below on a 1 second timer (for a time buffer), and you'll get saplings coming out of your ears.
Personally I've found that people get too hung up on getting a reliable, yet non-"cheaty" way of generating power and end up spending a god aweful amount of time trying to get some of the less efficient fuels like creosote to be viable (*cough, cough* ^^). For me anyhow, I don't really mind the fact that some sources of energy are scaled highly when compared to the more time consuming sources, as I feel like the whole emphasis on the vast majority of these packs should be about the cool stuff you can make and do with all the new blocks and items, not becoming obsessed with a maddening search to find a fuel that needs constant maintenance and upkeep to maintain machines that you don't use since you are too busy looking for stuff to improve the fuel source.
Just my experience anyhow, for hardcore players there's always config files and voltz perhaps. For multiplayer slowdown maybe there's a way to block certain block id's in the nether? I read earlier something about the fact that FTB is not Bukkit compatible as it uses forge, but maybe there's a mod out there that would work for it? Easy way I guess would just to have two seperate block id's for lava in the nether and lava in the overworld, retaining the original for the overworld maybe so machines would still work with the lava there. Imo it's an issues for the server owners to fix, not for the modpack creators.
Interesting discussion though
Just my experience anyhow, for hardcore players there's always config files and voltz perhaps. For multiplayer slowdown maybe there's a way to block certain block id's in the nether? I read earlier something about the fact that FTB is not Bukkit compatible as it uses forge, but maybe there's a mod out there that would work for it? Easy way I guess would just to have two seperate block id's for lava in the nether and lava in the overworld, retaining the original for the overworld maybe so machines would still work with the lava there. Imo it's an issues for the server owners to fix, not for the modpack creators.
Interesting discussion though
While that is indeed a bug, you already get saplings out of your ears. I setup a steve's cart system last week (nice challenge, first time use of that mod with a bit of railcraft thrown in) and I've got 3 fermenters with hoppers stuffed full of saplings, a smallish railcraft tank full of biogas and currently 3 biogass engines currently constantly pumping away. All my overflow saplings are being stored in barrels, and I've been switching between different tree species just for a bit of variety. I'm thinking of making biofuel just for the sake of it.
Sapling drops are way to high, which is a vanilla mechanic. As a result, biofuel production from saplings should be reduced.
Sapling drops are way to high, which is a vanilla mechanic. As a result, biofuel production from saplings should be reduced.
The funny thing about all these threads?
The only really "exploitative" function involved is enderchests, but the OP wants to abuse enderchests in other ways while removing a non-exploitative, useful function from other players.
That's not even getting into the fact the subject of this thread is a logical fallacy..
There's the best idea, really. A self-imposed limitation in SSP (for me) is not touching nether lava. Collecting it from finite / smaller overworld sources (much like oil) is far less boring, and makes the devices that use it feel balanced, including the centrifuge recipe which had to be nerfed solely because of the nether. Unfortunate having to balance around multiplayer sometimes, but that's ultimately best for the community.
If it's for an SSP setting, just don't use nether lava
If it's for a server, then it's up to the server owners/admins to make the rules
In NO way is it up to the mod makers. If they want to add something/take something away then fine, but telling them to do it smacks of.. oh idk... highly presumptuous and quite arrogant.
If it's for a server, then it's up to the server owners/admins to make the rules
In NO way is it up to the mod makers. If they want to add something/take something away then fine, but telling them to do it smacks of.. oh idk... highly presumptuous and quite arrogant.
Why the hostility? I was responding to someone who wanted EU generation to better parallel the real world, where nearly all electricity is generated by steam turbines.
I disagree. The mod makers have added a mechanic that does not exist in vanilla which causes very large amounts of server lag when it is used. It is up to the mod makers to find a way to make this mechanic usable without causing large amounts of server lag. If and only if they are unable to do this, then they should remove the mechanic.
From my point of view, this is a similar issue to the state of Buildcraft pipes in 1.2.5. They were a lag-intensive mess and I had to tell my friends to only use tubes. Now they've had a thorough rewrite and can be used with no more lag than tubes create. Something similar needs to happen with the way the pump handles large bodies of liquid.
Or people are just offering their opinions and ideas in an open environment and doing so in a fairly polite and respectful way. Constructive criticism is healthy and good. People are spit-balling - no one's telling the modders they have to do anything.
Disable flowing lava animations?
Seriously, that's the ONLY way you're going to eliminate lag from lava pumps. The lag is caused by the updates for minecraft because of the flowing lava animations. Hundreds of blocks of individual animation. Until *THAT* code is re-written (and that is vanilla code, and trying to change it significantly is going to be *extremely* invasive), you won't be able to eliminate lag from lava pumps.
Furthermore, I strongly disagree with the implication that this is the mod author's fault. That would be like trying to blame a gun manufacturer that people use their products to kill people with.
And the mod makers have NOT added a mechanic which did not exist in vanilla. You can achieve the same thing with a bucket. The only thing they have done is to facilitate automating it.
Slight correction, AFAIK it's the load of computing the lava flows on block update that the pumps cause. The animations are all client side and may or may not be laggy depending on the user's system. The flow computation issue is server side and can't really be remedied.
crappy analogy... along the lines of "don't blame the cigarette manufacturers! It's the people who smoke them that are to blame!"
also, sorta flamebaiting a gun debate
dey turk er gurnnnns!!!
There has been at least one suggestion in here to replace lava source blocks with cobblestone as they're pumped out (I'd use netherrack if in the nether, but that's just a quibble). If that were implemented, I'd think it would help a great deal with server load, no?
Forge pull requests exist for editing base classes. It is how mods can get completely new off the wall features that require vanilla tweaks into the game.
There is an alternative: when you remove a lava source block, don't leave empty air. Either convert it to cobblestone with less lava, or require a source of fill material to replace. No empty air blocks, no flowing lava blocks, no lag problem.
You'd have no reason to drain a million buckets from nether lava lakes in vanilla. The mod makers first added a use for large amounts a lava, then a way to cheaply collect large amounts of lava, then a way to interdimensionally transfer large amounts of lava. I'm not attempting to assign any sort of negative value to them. The server lag issue is an unintended consequence that only recently became a significant problem as nether pumps become en vogue. A more palatable solution for server admins would be a fix for the lag that nether pumps create. Banning them in the server rules and then policing the world and blacklisting offenders is more work for the server admin. Removing geothermal generators and magmatic engines takes away a really cool option. I'm asking for a way to leave the option available, but remove the lag it creates.
Though, if you only got half a bucket of lava per source block and had to melt the rest from netherrack at a smaller profit, it'd probably work out. It'd also be a cute way to create netherrack in the overworld, and from it nether brick (IC2 compressor)
There is an alternative: when you remove a lava source block, don't leave empty air. Either convert it to cobblestone with less lava, or require a source of fill material to replace. No empty air blocks, no flowing lava blocks, no lag problem.
You'd have no reason to drain a million buckets from nether lava lakes in vanilla. The mod makers first added a use for large amounts a lava, then a way to cheaply collect large amounts of lava, then a way to interdimensionally transfer large amounts of lava. I'm not attempting to assign any sort of negative value to them. The server lag issue is an unintended consequence that only recently became a significant problem as nether pumps become en vogue. A more palatable solution for server admins would be a fix for the lag that nether pumps create. Banning them in the server rules and then policing the world and blacklisting offenders is more work for the server admin. Removing geothermal generators and magmatic engines takes away a really cool option. I'm asking for a way to leave the option available, but remove the lag it creates.
Netherrack would look better, but it would let you pump the lava, then harvest the netherrack to melt into lava in a crucible, providing 1.5 buckets per source block.
Though, if you only got half a bucket of lava per source block and had to melt the rest from netherrack at a smaller profit, it'd probably work out. It'd also be a cute way to create netherrack in the overworld, and from it nether brick (IC2 compressor)
not sure if it was a bukkit plugin, but in the resources world that my old server implemented, lava/water didn't flow.
Cite? The only changes to lava centrifuging was a reduction from 64 lava to 16 and the minor change from 6 electrum for 64 to 1 for 16. All other outputs, and eu and time required are direct quartering.
This is clearly a change for ease of use, not "nerfed solely because of the nether"
So you change the pump to pull the furthest block it can access first instead of the nearest. Heck, I thought they already did that, it makes more sense from a number of standpoints.
i think pump pumps the most distant blocks first and nearby last so that wouldn't be a problem. The problem would be if you wanted to drain a lava lake to make space