You have that problem now, 'cause you'll have a ton of sourceless flowing blocks that take a long time to go away, or you need to use a filler to get rid of them and dig it out.
An idea to prevent Nether lava exploitation
- Thread starter MrZwij
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You have that problem now, 'cause you'll have a ton of sourceless flowing blocks that take a long time to go away, or you need to use a filler to get rid of them and dig it out.
You want to replace a mechanic people use that causes no server load or strain and force people to move to insane lag inducing tree farms or something along those lines that will crush servers and cause people to be in an uproar until mod makers change things to fix it? All over something that is in no way exploitative?
Just curious about what you're trying to accomplish.
I don't get how this effects the Server? For my understanding a block solid lava or a block flowing lava ist only different because of its id? Or does the game recalculate to often how the lava should flow.
If it is because of the animation then it should not be a problem when the area ist chunk loaded...or why should the server be handling the animation of flowing lava?
Is it the same Problem when pumping water?
Like to understand the problem better so if someone can clear it up a bit.
Which mechanic do you think causes no server lag? Flowing liquid blocks are very lag-intensive.
It was said by a mod dev that the server needs to send 3x the information for a flowing block that it does for a source block. Multiply that by the entire nether sea, and the area becomes a laggy mess. I've seen people disconnected for walking into the area, I've seen others disconnected because that person walked into the area, and I've seen the entire server come down when four people went to the pumping area at the same time.
It's not due to the animation, but due to the calculations the server has to perform to see if lava/water should flow, and if so where it should go. With lava, there's also the slight extra hit of lighting calculations. One lava has reached it's flowing limit, there's no further calculations.
That's why new chunks in the nether are slow to load, lots of new lava source blocks that have to flow to ground level and spread across the land. Once that is done, those chunks load quicker.
I think that is right.... Most likely wrong
That's why new chunks in the nether are slow to load, lots of new lava source blocks that have to flow to ground level and spread across the land. Once that is done, those chunks load quicker.
I think that is right.... Most likely wrong
Are you talking about the 'flowing' lava part that takes forever to go away after the source is removed? I've never had a problem, not even after 3 separate lava sites pumped dry, but still all flowing, and leaving the anchors in place at each site because I specifically want the flows to decay. When I pump lava from the nether, it's for revenge for all the times I've died in it more than energy
Well, for both..Now I let my steve carts 14x15 tree farm run till it overflowed the wood barrel once (fell asleep and left the server running). Manager was stuffed full of wood/apples/saplings, the filter pumping from the manager was backlogged and the area was full of half cut down trees and the cart itself appeared to be broken down. Talk about LAG, it took me 20 minutes to get to the cart, take the fuel away and get to the manager/barrels/filters and start clearing some of the crap before the lag started to work itself out. I deleted at least a double chest worth of wood and saplings just to get the system back. I'm still over-stocked in wood from that incident.
Are you talking SSP or SMP? Yes, you need an overflow outlet for steve's carts tree farms, but they shouldn't cause noticeable lag in a system built to account for overflow and not using a ridiculous timer. The lava flowing lag issue primarily shows up in SMP because of the data transfer between server and client.
You agree with the premise of your own post? I hope so!
Anyway, I really don't see it as a problem. Maybe it needs to be made a little more difficult? Maybe. But remove it entirely? Well, a big problem is that while lava is plentiful, it can often be a real nuisance to pipe a lot of it to a destination. Things like anchors now requiring an ender pearl every 12 hours doesn't help (though it does help deter this Nether behavior you're posting about.) I'd rather first address it with more practical ways to transport lava and oil around the world. We should have a better solution than everything requiring ender materials, IMO.
It's SMP, but I'm the only one on it 90% of the time. My son is the only other player. The lag was only partially the overflowed system, a good portion of it was all the trees growing in such a small space. At least it didn't all go away until I chopped down all the trees manually.
It doesn't matter if its server or client lag. Lag = hard to get anywhere. My point was lava pumps NEVER caused a spot of lag. At least not with 3 anchor spots of flowing lava. Maybe if I had a dozen or more, I'd see a problem.
It does matter, actually. Client lag makes your life miserable. Server lag makes the life of everyone on the server miserable. Server lag isn't usually seen in stuttering frame rates or trouble moving from one spot to the next. Instead, it's seen in tick rates dropping (I've seen it get as bad as 1 tick every 2 seconds, normally it's 20 ticks a second), in not being able to open doors, in delays when opening chests or bags, in mobs rubber-banding around.
And yeah, on a small 1 or 2 person server, you won't see the lava lag. The information is only being sent to one person. When that same information is being sent to 20 people, however, things start to break. By contrast, the tree farm graphical lag you had would only effect those clients who were trying to render that clump of leaves, and who were set to fancy, and who couldn't handle that much transparency all at once. The lava lag effects everyone, no matter where they are or what they are doing on the server.
They can cause lag when lots of people are doing independent power supplies from the nether. SMP admin woes are different from small server woes.
EvilHamster (and anyone else in this thread): You're hereby cordially invited to come play on our server. Hopefully you'll never experience any server lag, but in the unlikely event that you do 
you'd get a sense of the difference between what people call "block lag" and "frame rate lag." Ignore all the "clan" stuff, it's a good server with good citizens and admins that try hard.
Hopefully you'll never experience any server lag, but in the unlikely event that you do you'd get a sense of the difference between what people call "block lag" and "frame rate lag." Ignore all the "clan" stuff, it's a good server with good citizens and admins that try hard.EvilHamster (and anyone else in this thread): You're hereby cordially invited to come play on our server.
Actually the lines kind of blur a bit. A certain number of block updates in a given tick forces the chunk to be resent, which triggers the world renderer, leading to frame rate lag on top of the server-end block lag. In vanilla Minecraft, this actually made sense, but since that also has to send Description Packets for every tile entity, it's really really bad in modded MC. That's what a lot of people are experiencing with RP2 relays right now (which will no doubt be sorted out by Eloraam).
You could use three redstone engines, which is all I ever use, and it's plenty. Or one magmatic engine. But I've heard better ideas than mine in this thread for possibilities of dealing with the problem.