Because there's basically no better way of discrediting your argument than quoting it. Sorry.
Ampz + Ultimate = AWESOMENESS
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Because there's basically no better way of discrediting your argument than quoting it. Sorry.
Enigmius1, what I don't get is why you're so hung up on only talking about Ultimate exactly as it is according to your precise definition, when at the same time your point is that it's buggy and unstable and not worth adding stuff to. That seems like a good argument for caring less about your narrow definition of Ultimate and considering variants that suit your needs better.
I'm not sure how I could be more clear. We have a pack. It's called the Ultimate Pack. It has a lot of potential, and it has a lot of issues. It has a lot of problematic fluff mods. It has a lot of key mods that can create crippling performance issues or crashes under a variety of situations. So when a specific question is asked, one that poses the notion of adding another pack to the Ultimate pack, there are reasons for why that might not be the greatest idea. I would rather see a focus on resolving as many of the current issues with the Ultimate pack as possible first. That's all. But then people with agendas start chiming in and arguing points tangential to the topic, and then crying when I don't give what they feel to be adequate consideration to what they're saying. In this, and all things of a technical nature, isolation is exactly what needs to happen as part of the problem solving process. That means people arguing about other packs that are kinda sorta maybe similar based on or a bit similar to the Ultimate pack are not relevant. As I've already mentioned...this is not a debate on whether or not it's possible to have a stable, bloated mod pack. It's not hard to understand...unless you can't fit the topic to your agenda, then you get a fucking mess like this.
And you see the juvenile behavior that ensues. Half of RR here beaking off and they don't even know what the fucking topic is. Cute. All day. Without me, of course, because this has more than run its course and the longer it goes on, the more childish your chums become.
No argument there.
Yeah, someone said "It's not a good idea to keep adding and adding and adding to packs" and Dave gave information to the contrary. So this is all the fault of the person who said "It's not a good idea to keep adding and adding and adding to packs"
Who was that again?
Splitting hairs much? It's NOT a good idea to just keep adding and adding and adding. That's just common sense with validity and implications way beyond modded Minecraft. If you've got something that's already unwieldy and you must add to it, do it for a damn good reason. So arguing a completely different pack "based on" the Ultimate pack...not relevant. I'm arguing within the parameters of the OP. Others see an opportunity to crow about RR and they'll stoop to new levels of imbecility to do it, all the while crying about how misunderstood they are. It doesn't matter. The framework we were given leaves no room to be adding mod packs to the Ultimate pack. The fact that the people arguing that these "almost like" packs are "fine"...doesn't matter. Anecdotal, irrelevant, and pointless. I'd love to ask how Xycraft tanks are doing in RR but...no Xycraft tanks to talk about. RP2 frames, multiblocks and lighting? Can't...not in the pack. What about the Voxel mods, or Secret Rooms, or the ChickenChunks issues? Ender storage? On and on and on I could go. So before we start talking about adding ANYTHING, what is going to be taken out of the next iteration? Right?
Objectivity. KD associates RR in some way with Ultimate + Ampz, so if we set objectivity aside for a second, anyone rejecting the idea of Ultimate + anything right now must be talking against RR, and once that back gets up to hell with objectivity all together.
There's this horrible, horrible logical fallacy running around that telling people to "just download and install the latest version of the mod" or "just edit the config" is a suitable answer. It's not. If the majority of people who played mod packs pre-configured and downloaded through a launcher wanted to get into micro-managing the packs, they'd build their own packs and skip all the overhead they don't want. So telling people that if something in Ultimate sucks, make sure you're downloading the latest version of the mod...that's a dumbass argument. Personally, I do update problematic mods as best their revision cycle allows but most people aren't willing to do that. That means people are going to base their impression of FTB on how FTB packs perform "out of the box". Which would ideally come to mean no more fluff mods, no more "10% complete but here for the worldgen" mods, fewer duplicate mods, and revisions that reflect mod performance over a release cycle.
A lot of things to sort out. Way to many to start complicating with additions. FTB's inclusion/omission criteria will not necessarily be the same as those of other mod pack developers. To assume they are would just be naive. FTB's largest ongoing sin from BETAA to current offerings is including mods because the mod dev is on ForgeCraft even though the mod was so far from being ready it had no business in a pack. Remember when we got to alpha test Xycraft "for the world gen"? Let's see a step forward int he philosophy on that kind of thing before we start bloating bloaty packs already. Because the Ultiamte pack is bloated. That's a "fact", and there's only one mod pack to look at for proof, and it's not RR or either of the 1.5.2 beta packs. So bloaty pack plus other pack? Yes, bad idea. Unless...agenda. Then...juvenile. Right?
Inasmuch as it looks like Beta 152gt, which is very much an attempt at an ultimate release aborted because of an incoming forge-mandated reset due to liquid system rewrite: yes.
I really do not care about your opinion of my modpack, Enigmius1. If I did, you'd have already been invited.
I offered my germane observations for 1.4.7 and 1.5.2 because they were germane. If they really aren't, report my posts and let's let the mods sort it out. But then there is your subsequent behavior... because I disagree with you and I'm doing so calmly and with data, you flip out. And yes, flipping out is an adequate characterization. You sit here beating a drum of objectivity when it's convenient for you; but when actually confronted with objective metrics you reject them. Specifically saying: "I don't care who has what spreadsheet or who is empowered by their pocket protector, someone who hasn't been playing Ultimate isn't in a position to be commenting on what is or isn't currently working with it."
And since you opened the door of logical fallacy citation...
There are two specific logical fallacies you've been engaging in constantly. There is name for what you've been doing as you deride anyone else with an opinion or information counter to your assertion is called a "No True Scottsman Fallacy". "You don't understand enough about how mods interact," you claim. Anyone who does offer credible information, no matter how much, is dismissed as "not playing hard enough" or "not knowing enough". It doesn't matter how much they can say, any "true scotsman" (in this case, "person who is correct") would agree with you. Every other party: lacks experience and expertise.
The second logical fallacy you're engaging in to defend your argument are several cases of "continuum fallacy". You basically collapse the entire continuum of modpack stability into "good" and "unplayable" and treat it as a binary threshold when the reality is that there are a whole continuum of categorizations there. Anything you don't like is bloated and therefore bugridden. One really wonders where you draw that line, but you've been incredibly elusive about specifics here, especially since we really are talking about 3-5 mods for 1.4.7.
I am not sure why you are so invested in this conversation. I am not sure why you don't take your own advice and be "done" with this thread. But you're an adult, and you seem like a smart enough man that at some point it stops being a funny show and starts being depressing. You throw insults around and when people react, you call them defensive. You demand experience but when you receive anything resembling concrete data you say that's not really what you wanted and you don't care about it. If anyone approaches you with a softer claim you beat them up for rigor.
Obviously, despite your protestations to the contrary, you care enough about what the people here think to keep posting over and over. You should consider what you stand to gain and lose carefully by by posting here again. This post here, where I talk to you like an adult and say, "This behavior is unbecoming of someone as smart as you," this is the last courtesy you get from me. We won't talk again.
JUST TO REQUOTE MYSELF
Can a moderator please close this topic before Enigmius1 has a meltdown over something I've totally lost track off.
Can a moderator please close this topic before Enigmius1 has a meltdown over something I've totally lost track off.
Enigmus1, we all understand your point about Ultimate. Yes, just carelessly adding stuff to it is a bad idea as you say. Yes, it's bloated.
However, you're the one who generalised to the topic of adding to packs in general. And it's to your point about adding to packs in general that other successful modpacks are relevant. I don't think anyone's saying "RR proves that Ultimate+Ampz will work" because we know (as you do) that it doesn't. RR was brought up just to show that big packs with lots of mods can work if you do it right. Yes it's not directly relevant to the OP's idea of Ultimate+Ampz. No, we're not saying that slapping Ultimate+Ampz won't be a mess. The simple point is that contrary to what you implied, packs with a large number of diverse mods can be made to work well. (So long as they're not built directly on Ultimate as it currently stands.)
tl;dr I think Enigmus1 mistook the point of disagreement and has been unintentionally railing against a strawman. I hope this clears it up and he can see that there is more agreement than he realises.
However, you're the one who generalised to the topic of adding to packs in general. And it's to your point about adding to packs in general that other successful modpacks are relevant. I don't think anyone's saying "RR proves that Ultimate+Ampz will work" because we know (as you do) that it doesn't. RR was brought up just to show that big packs with lots of mods can work if you do it right. Yes it's not directly relevant to the OP's idea of Ultimate+Ampz. No, we're not saying that slapping Ultimate+Ampz won't be a mess. The simple point is that contrary to what you implied, packs with a large number of diverse mods can be made to work well. (So long as they're not built directly on Ultimate as it currently stands.)
tl;dr I think Enigmus1 mistook the point of disagreement and has been unintentionally railing against a strawman. I hope this clears it up and he can see that there is more agreement than he realises.
Interesting that you infer I'm the only person to have misunderstood anything. I'll leave the RR circle-jerk now. You should take a glance through this thread. It's mostly RR posters claiming to have objectivity and credibility. It's like junior high all over again. I'm sure there's an argument to be had there, too. I know better. That'll be good enough.
Of course, I wouldn't be commenting if my server consisted of 5 people macerating ores.
We have a dozen players running dozens of chunk loaders, dozens of full speed quarries, full time working AE systems, a higher than default spawn rate on Mo'Creatures, and much more.
And the mod pack creators can only do so much if the mod creators don't fix bugs and update their mods.. I mean, look at RP2.. I'd rather 6-8 more mods loading than to wait around months for RP2 to get updated.
Regardless, it's widely considered that ultimate *is* stable. It might not be to your standard, but that is your problem, and not everyone elses. Nothing is 100% fool-proof stable. If Ultimate is so unstable, please tell me what you've done to break it. I'll replicate it on my server.
And yes, the RR circlejerk is here, and it is strong. It's something you have to deal with, as they are obviously friends.
I didn't mean to infer that. I hope you didn't intend to infer that I intended to infer that. Did you intend to infer that I haven't taken a glance through this thread?
But I'm not seeing that it's "mostly RR posters claiming to have objectivity and credibility". Dave mentioned the fact that RR works pretty well as being an objective fact. The other RR people mostly showed up because you started insulting them for not pushing limits and stuff.
[edit] It's odd how the RR people are being insulted for merely saying that the pack works pretty well and they have fun playing it.
The question isn't how many mods is enough. It's never enough. The question is how many mods does it take before the JRE just gives up, refuses to run and begs for a merciful death.
Given what FTB is it is surprising this even exists and is playable. I hear code gurus moaning about how bad and inefficient vanilla Minecraft is all the time and you took that unstable base and you had a hundred unpaid strangers add code to that with features like nukes and moving platform in a voxel universe and power armor and somehow it still runs together 99% of the time. Every version I can think of has had at least one memory leak but where the leak is keeps changing as old leaks are fixed and new ones get added and because of what it is (a massive pile of shit) this will probably never change.
You also get exploits on top of exploits due to cross-mod interaction and not even Greg can find and nerf them all. Personally I'm open-minded about exploits. Finding all the cool ones is just part of the fun. There are three completely unrelated ways to breech bedrock in the Twilight Forest alone, three I say!
Tl;dr If you can put Ampz into Ultimate and then have it run on a server for more than two hours at a time then you win the internet and I'll try it.
Given what FTB is it is surprising this even exists and is playable. I hear code gurus moaning about how bad and inefficient vanilla Minecraft is all the time and you took that unstable base and you had a hundred unpaid strangers add code to that with features like nukes and moving platform in a voxel universe and power armor and somehow it still runs together 99% of the time. Every version I can think of has had at least one memory leak but where the leak is keeps changing as old leaks are fixed and new ones get added and because of what it is (a massive pile of shit) this will probably never change.
You also get exploits on top of exploits due to cross-mod interaction and not even Greg can find and nerf them all. Personally I'm open-minded about exploits. Finding all the cool ones is just part of the fun. There are three completely unrelated ways to breech bedrock in the Twilight Forest alone, three I say!
Tl;dr If you can put Ampz into Ultimate and then have it run on a server for more than two hours at a time then you win the internet and I'll try it.
Ultimate modpack is really awesome , and the Ampz is a lot of fun, but some aspects of the Ampz modpack (Galacticraft, Calcavia's MFFS, Atomic science, Minechemistry, ICBM e.t.c) are missing from the Ultimate modpack. Do you guys think that some of the mods from Ampz should be added in the Ultimate pack?
P.S Also... traincraft and maybe a zeppelin mod would also be great additions to both packs
What do you think?
It would be unwise to add the ampz mods to the current official version of FTB ultimate as it's already pretty bloated as is, and adding more mods really doesn't seem like a good idea. But if I'm right, it looks like you're looking for an integration of the UE mods and the standard BC/IC2/etc mods that are in Ultimate. In that case I'd like to point you in the Direction of Resonant Rise. It isn't public (yet) but the config files are free to download and there is an in depth mod list that tells you exactly which mods and their versions to download. I did it myself and yes it is a bit of effort, but I believe that effort is fully justified. I believe this pack is closest to what you're looking for. You can find it here: https://plus.google.com/communities/109856948017213754039
*Patpat* It'll be ok, Maybe one day far far in the future everyone will see how awesome you are...
He also talked about 1.6 and looking forward to the updated mods, so there was never any need to limit the conversation to an outdated mod pack. The OP wanted updates.
Generalized Godwin's Law: "Every discussion within an online community converges to a zero-information signal characterized by empty assertions concerning the foundational dichotomy of that community." The fundamental disagreement here is, roughly, that Enigmus is an Aristotelian and KirinDave, et al are Platonists. For Enigmus, there is no ideal form of the Ultimate pack separate from the pack that actually exists. The phrase "the Ultimate pack" literally denotes the collection of bits that you can download today through the FTB launcher. For KirinDave, "the Ultimate pack" is a particular embodiment of some ideal. Depending on how abstract you want to get the ideal could be a set of mods (irrespective of version), or a particular kind of gameplay, or a position within the Minecraft modding ecosystem.
This disagreement, seeing as it's persisted for several thousand years and seven pages of this thread, is literally unresolvable. Someone's going to have to agree to shift their metaphysics, or this thread is only going to be good for schadenfreude.
This disagreement, seeing as it's persisted for several thousand years and seven pages of this thread, is literally unresolvable. Someone's going to have to agree to shift their metaphysics, or this thread is only going to be good for schadenfreude.
Bravo, bravo. I feel bad for posting without adding much to the conversation but I really enjoyed that post.