A Shitstorm

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Which do you prefer?


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ProfessorMudkip

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Jul 29, 2019
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What you're not understanding is that this is only a problem for players who care what their neighbors have/are doing. Some people don't, and will choose whatever mod suits their needs, whatever those may be.
I do understand that. The people that do care should not be ignored. However, the bigger problem is that the server economy cares. Server balance is important.
 

Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
FTB Mod Dev
Sep 3, 2013
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What you're not understanding is that this is only a problem for players who care what their neighbors have/are doing. Some people don't, and will choose whatever mod suits their needs, whatever those may be.
Not really. In my experience on servers, both modded, pure vanilla, and with plugins, once players reach the endgame, they tend to inflate the economy by giving out tons of high-end resources and materials to lower-end players. This severely upsets the server economy, and soon you have people getting power armor within 20 minutes of logging in because someone is selling it for a stack of clay.
 

Strikingwolf

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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Not really. In my experience on servers, both modded, pure vanilla, and with plugins, once players reach the endgame, they tend to inflate the economy by giving out tons of high-end resources and materials to lower-end players. This severely upsets the server economy.
this is sooooooo true
 

Deftscythe

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Jul 29, 2019
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Not really. In my experience on servers, both modded, pure vanilla, and with plugins, once players reach the endgame, they tend to inflate the economy by giving out tons of high-end resources and materials to lower-end players. This severely upsets the server economy, and soon you have people getting power armor within 20 minutes of logging in because someone is selling it for a stack of clay.

I've been on servers where I joined later into the map's lifespan, and been offered stuff by players that reached end-game, but I wanted to play through the game myself so I just... declined. Simple solution.
 

RedBoss

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Jul 29, 2019
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Player choice is important. Every mod should have very detailed config options to allow any type of player to enjoy the mod. If it floats your boat to make a bucket of UU matter with 1 EU, you should have that option.

On a multiplayer server, it is different. If you are using an "overpowered" mod, cross-mods, exploits, etc, then it affects the other players on the server. For example: You are using a mod capable of duplicating blocks within a week of playtime. The other players are using mods that take a month to duplicate blocks. You have an enormous advantage in this situation. Your massive growth will have an impact on the world and server economy.
You can't use configs to suit every player in an SMP situation. Plus a dev shouldn't be forced into adding configs or changes that they don't see fit to.

You're also assuming that all players care about "server economies". You're also assuming that everyone cares about what other people are doing. This is not a universal situation. These things may bother certain people, but as along as there's no world border, you can dig up anything and build whatever you want. The only true advantage one player has over another is the time available to dump into playing. That's a hurdle some people can never jump across... no matter what the configs are changed to.
 

midi_sec

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Jul 29, 2019
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I've been on servers where I joined later into the map's lifespan, and been offered stuff by players that reached end-game, but I wanted to play through the game myself so I just... declined. Simple solution.
Yeah, but sometimes it's not as overt as "Hey man, want an ultimate hybrid solar?"

All it takes is one person, or group of people to decide that they do not want to play the economy game to screw it up, especially if it's a server with a currency in addition to an economy.
 

Deftscythe

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Jul 29, 2019
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Yeah, but sometimes it's not as overt as "Hey man, want an ultimate hybrid solar?"

All it takes is one person, or group of people to decide that they do not want to play the economy game to screw it up, especially if it's a server with a currency in addition to an economy.

Wouldn't the kind of player who chooses to play on that kind of server not be the kind to value anything over the competition itself?
 
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Reika

RotaryCraft Dev
FTB Mod Dev
Sep 3, 2013
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Yeah, but sometimes it's not as overt as "Hey man, want an ultimate hybrid solar?"

All it takes is one person, or group of people to decide that they do not want to play the economy game to screw it up, especially if it's a server with a currency in addition to an economy.
Or where donations/services to the server yield ingame rewards.

Also, most players do not have the self-control to refuse the offer of cheap materials; just look how many people complain about the presence of exploits yet openly say they cannot stop themselves from using them.
 

Padfoote

Brick Thrower
Forum Moderator
Dec 11, 2013
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just look how many people complain about the presence of exploits yet openly say they cannot stop themselves from using them.

And then beg the dev to re-add said exploit when it gets patched. :p
 
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midi_sec

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Jul 29, 2019
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Wouldn't the kind of player who chooses to play on that kind of server not be the kind to value anything over the competition itself?

I guess you're missing my point.

Regardless how everybody else is playing, if you have one guy who isn't willing to play by the same rules of the "game" everybody else is playing, in this case it's the Shopowner/Shopper game, the game crumbles.

In this situation, the person who is in it just for the competition itself just unloads his materials at bargain bin prices, effectively destroying the entire market on the server. In the end, he gets exactly what he wants; the largest number of currency in his wallet.

I've seen it. I've done it single handedly. So has @Reika.
 

ProfessorMudkip

New Member
Jul 29, 2019
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You can't use configs to suit every player in an SMP situation. Plus a dev shouldn't be forced into adding configs or changes that they don't see fit to.

You're also assuming that all players care about "server economies". You're also assuming that everyone cares about what other people are doing. This is not a universal situation. These things may bother certain people, but as along as there's no world border, you can dig up anything and build whatever you want. The only true advantage one player has over another is the time available to dump into playing. That's a hurdle some people can never jump across... no matter what the configs are changed to.
I meant that you could use configs to suit every player in a SSP situtation. That is why I said it's different for multiplayer after that. Devs shouldn't be forced to add config options, but it would make it more accessible to users. For example, I like the molten metal and customizable tools of Tinkers Construct, but I don't use it because I consider it to be imbalanced. If there was config options to adjust this, I would use it.

You're also assuming that no players care about "server economies" . You're also assuming that nobody cares about what other people are doing. This is not a universal situation. Time is not relevant if mods have different scaling. If you play for 4 hours a day and I play for 2 hours a day, but I use a mod that progresses twice as fast, then your "time advantage" is nullified.

Or where donations/services to the server yield ingame rewards.
Pay2Win is awful.

Also, most players do not have the self-control to refuse the offer of cheap materials; just look how many people complain about the presence of exploits yet openly say they cannot stop themselves from using them.
This. Didn't someone complain about you removing an exploit from your mod? In my experience, players will always do whatever is easiest, quickest and cheapest.
 

McJty

Over-Achiever
Mod Developer
May 13, 2014
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I am a fan of two ways to play:

  • Sometimes I don't feel like bothering with power and then I just go with bigreactors. Without turbines big reactors are really easy. With turbines it is a bit harder but still relatively easy to do once you know the numbers.
  • Other times I feel like being challenged and want to do things the hard way. I'm currently playing Ultra Hard (ATLauncher) and I must say I'm really enjoying it. Even though I died about 30 times already in just an hour or so of playtime :)

For me it depends in the kind of mood. Personally I think RF is a great power system but I do think there should be more power options that add some challenge to RF. I have used RotaryCraft in some of my plays to generate RF which is a bit harder then the typical generator thing. Also setting up a fully automated Big Reactor with turbines that doesn't require maintenance is also some work.

What I really want to say is that I don't think that RF as a power is really a problem here. We just need more (and more challenging) options to generate RF. That way you can build modpacks around this challenge.
 
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