[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]

[MigukNamja]

Neat thing I found out the other day by accident: those input numbers only reflect eIOs active pull-action. A machine which "pushes" fluid into the eIO pipe doesn't necessarily respect it.
You can see this when you attach a fluid conduit to something like the Large Heat Exchanger.

How's this:

Pressurized is now 120mB/t input per connection when conduit is extracting* and 480 output per connection. EnderFluid is 300 and 1200, respectively.

*Input limit only applies when eIO conduit is the one doing the extracting. If other block is pushing fluid into the conduit, its limits apply and not eIO's conduits.

 

[Pyure]

i have parsed some log files from yesterday and.. yes... really, there are a lot lines like this:
[14:28:48] [Client thread/WARN]: ResourcePack: ignored non-lowercase namespace: HungerOverhaul in D:\Spiele\Minecraft\FTB\InfiTech2\minecraft\mods\HungerOverhaul-1.7.10-1.0.0.jar
I hope it helps

When you have a second can you confirm which action produces these? If its just during loadup, it may not be relevant.

How's this:

Pressurized is now 120mB/t input per connection when conduit is extracting* and 480 output per connection. EnderFluid is 300 and 1200, respectively.

*Input limit only applies when eIO conduit is the one doing the extracting. If other block is pushing fluid into the conduit, its limits apply and not eIO's conduits.

Sounds awesome although I'd love if someone independently confirmed it rather than just relying on my sketchy brain.

 

[jogi01]

When you have a second can you confirm which action produces these? If its just during loadup, it may not be relevant.


Sounds awesome although I'd love if someone independently confirmed it rather than just relying on my sketchy brain.

i have checked several logs, yes, there are two bigger blocks of these lines, everytime the same and both during startup..

 

[Pyure]

i have checked several logs, yes, there are two bigger blocks of these lines, everytime the same and both during startup..

Probably not relevant then.

 

[Xavion]

So I had a random thought, there is an alternative way to the large heat exchangers to produce copious amounts of steam, that being big reactors obviously. Now the issue with needing absurd amounts of water still applies but that's actually bearable, while I can't remember if transfer nodes have been re-enabled yet as they were said to be a maxed thirsty tank produces 500mB/t iirc which is still tons, you'd only need four of them to produce the 2B/t for a max BR turbine, notably that puts the issue of actually supplying them with water into the feasible range even without transfer nodes as long as you don't want too many turbines running.

However I'm investigating large turbines, they could actually be really viable with it. To create a turbine blade you need 6.25 ingots of that substance, so for a large turbine which is the best efficiency you need 75 ingots. So let's assume you weren't lucky enough to get that much naquadah, it would just increases eff by 10% anyway. So you can build a tungstensteel turbine as you'll actually have that, it will consume for you 1.5B/t (75% of the steam of a BR turbine). That will provide you with a base of 750 EU/t, multiply by 1.4 for eff and that goes up to 1050 EU/t which after accounting for the lower steam demand goes up to 1400 EU/t which translates to 5600RF/t compared to a BR of about 24000RF/t.

So that was a bust, GT turbines are not viable for power production from steam it seems as apparently BR ones have an effective score of something like 600% efficiency. Even if you had an absolutely horrible conversion process for energy that will still easily let them beat out any other use for steam to a ridiculous degree.

 

[Pyure]

So I had a random thought, there is an alternative way to the large heat exchangers to produce copious amounts of steam, that being big reactors obviously. Now the issue with needing absurd amounts of water still applies but that's actually bearable, while I can't remember if transfer nodes have been re-enabled yet as they were said to be a maxed thirsty tank produces 500mB/t iirc which is still tons, you'd only need four of them to produce the 2B/t for a max BR turbine, notably that puts the issue of actually supplying them with water into the feasible range even without transfer nodes as long as you don't want too many turbines running.

However I'm investigating large turbines, they could actually be really viable with it. To create a turbine blade you need 6.25 ingots of that substance, so for a large turbine which is the best efficiency you need 75 ingots. So let's assume you weren't lucky enough to get that much naquadah, it would just increases eff by 10% anyway. So you can build a tungstensteel turbine as you'll actually have that, it will consume for you 1.5B/t (75% of the steam of a BR turbine). That will provide you with a base of 750 EU/t, multiply by 1.4 for eff and that goes up to 1050 EU/t which after accounting for the lower steam demand goes up to 1400 EU/t which translates to 5600RF/t compared to a BR of about 24000RF/t.

So that was a bust, GT turbines are not viable for power production from steam it seems as apparently BR ones have an effective score of something like 600% efficiency. Even if you had an absolutely horrible conversion process for energy that will still easily let them beat out any other use for steam to a ridiculous degree.

I wish I could follow this, too many "turbines" w/o clarifying which ones we're talking about

 

[Aiwendil]

Yeah but we're talking about 80 blade ludicrite coil turbine right? That's not a cheap thing, also converting it also requires some work.

I currently have a nice lava heat exchanger and a large turbine all set up and ready to go, and I'm just waiting for the server update so that it actually works . But I calculated I would get more like 1600 EU/t from it + some normal steam which can be used in RC turbines (probably another 400 EU/t).

Also did you actually test the turbine's output ingame or are you copying numbers from the internet? Because I made exactly this turbine in V2 and it produced 17k RF/t thanks to Jason messing with configs. So convert that and we're closer to GT efficiency.

 

[Xavion]

I wish I could follow this, too many "turbines" w/o clarifying which ones we're talking about

Pretty much only refer to GT turbines and specify each time, basically just look at the end. I attempted to work out if large GT steam turbines are useful, they're not as even the very best ones are barely a quarter as efficient as BR turbines.

Hmm, you've done way more pneumaticraft then me. How well does it cope with changing huge amounts of power over? Because as long as you can get about 30% efficiency on the full output of a BR turbine it would still beat out a GT turbine for power.

Also did you actually test the turbine's output ingame or are you copying numbers from the internet? Because I made exactly this turbine in V2 and it produced 17k RF/t thanks to Jason messing with configs. So convert that and we're closer to GT efficiency.

Well as mentioned a GT turbine is worth about 5600 RF/t converted to a max size BR turbine so even with only 17k RF/t from a BR one that's still triple output of a GT turbine with the same amount of steam, and you can make smaller BR turbines way easier than building a top tier one. That and with such a higher output having a sloppy conversion process doesn't matter that much, even if you waste half the power in conversion you'd still be easily beating out GT turbines.

 

[Pyure]

Pretty much only refer to GT turbines and specify each time, basically just look at the end. I attempted to work out if large GT steam turbines are useful, they're not as even the very best ones are barely a quarter as efficient as BR turbines.

Hmm, you've done way more pneumaticraft then me. How well does it cope with changing huge amounts of power over? Because as long as you can get about 30% efficiency on the full output of a BR turbine it would still beat out a GT turbine for power.

PC is fine with the fluctuating power. The problem is converting it, and the conversion infrastructure consumes a ton of resources and space.

That's the main reason I don't push for BR to be nerfed further than it is: its kinda hard and annoying to work with already.

 

[Aiwendil]

Well I just did the math again - a large turbine (iridium in this case - cheap and easy to get) has 24000L/sec flow and 140 efficiency, which gives us 1680 EU/t. And since LHE (yeah let's make this a thing guys) produces 40B/sec = 40000L/sec, you can add a smaller second turbine with 16000L/sec with probably another 1k EU/t. How is that bad?

 

[Nickolas Wood]

Given all of this discussion it just further illustrates how weak nuclear actually is. Correct me if I am wrong but the Hu produced by a liquid IC2 can in no way produce those quantities of steam.

 

[Pyure]

Given all of this discussion it just further illustrates how weak nuclear actually is. Correct me if I am wrong but the Hu produced by a liquid IC2 can in no way produce those quantities of steam.

In truth it illustrates how overpowered BR is. IC2 nuclear is extremely powerful in this pack otherwise.

In just about any pack, Big Reactors completely eclipses any other source of power. An exception would be ReactorCraft in quasi-mainstream packs, but for the most part, big reactors is where power is at.

But what's nice about big reactors is that its very configurable, and if people think its dominating Infitech2 too much, we can just adjust a few multipliers to smooth that out a bit.

 

[Xavion]

PC is fine with the fluctuating power. The problem is converting it, and the conversion infrastructure consumes a ton of resources and space.

That's the main reason I don't push for BR to be nerfed further than it is: its kinda hard and annoying to work with already.

That's why I asked about how it goes when you're not trying to get a high efficiency rate with tons of resources sunk in because of it, I was just wondering if you knew. I can try in some hours but not right now, I'll do it when I get the chance though. Because I was asking about how like 70% or even 50% efficiency fairs with it. Heck, Galacticraft is still an option right? Because it has a flat 75% efficiency and is far, far easier to manage then pneumaticraft.

Well I just did the math again - a large turbine (iridium in this case - cheap and easy to get) has 24000L/sec flow and 140 efficiency, which gives us 1680 EU/t. And since LHE (yeah let's make this a thing guys) produces 40B/sec = 40000L/sec, you can add a smaller second turbine with 16000L/sec with probably another 1k EU/t. How is that bad?

Steam is worth 0.5 EU/L at 100% eff, so 40000L/sec is 2000L/t which is 2000EU/t which when given the 140% eff increases to 2800EU/t assuming you're getting everything out of the steam. A BR turbine with 75% conversion efficiency for reference will produce at least 15% more, possibly as much as double depending on the actual numbers.

Really though BR isn't end-game power, that's definitely fusion in this pack as even BR struggles to match that. I mean a basic large iridium turbine will generate 67200 EU/t and consume 48000 EU/t in power. For sulfur plasma that's about 1.5mB/t in consumption, so you could run two off the output of a Mark 2 Fusion rector comfortably, a third smaller turbine too to push you over the 150k EU/t mark. Quick calc means that may even take two maxed BR reactors to match, more then one seems accurate. It's just for steam power that that BR turbines draw ahead, the non-steam late game power still blows them out of the water.

 

[Nickolas Wood]

In truth it illustrates how overpowered BR is. IC2 nuclear is extremely powerful in this pack otherwise.

That is a fair point.

Really though BR isn't end-game power, that's definitely fusion in this pack as even BR struggles to match that. I mean a basic large iridium turbine will generate 67200 EU/t and consume 48000 EU/t in power. For sulfur plasma that's about 1.5mB/t in consumption, so you could run two off the output of a Mark 2 Fusion rector comfortably, a third smaller turbine too to push you over the 150k EU/t mark. Quick calc means that may even take two maxed BR reactors to match, more then one seems accurate. It's just for steam power that that BR turbines draw ahead, the non-steam late game power still blows them out of the water.

While I agree the problem I see is this. The progression, with bigreactors remaining as powerful as it is, would see bigreactors replace IC2 nuclear as mid game power. Bigreactors is less complicated, even with the PC conversion, and produces more power then the IC2 nuclear power train. It almost seams like the best thing to do is relegate bigreactors to a power tier below IC2 nuclear and gate access into IC2 nuclear by a material only acquired from bigreactors while simultaneously increasing the output of the IC2 nuclear power train. In this way, both mods are used to progress to end game power, both mods are required to do so, and, the crazy gap between fusion and anything else is shrunk a little. Don't get me wrong, fusion should produce double the power of anything else but right now it is an order of magnitude.

 

[Pyure]

That's why I asked about how it goes when you're not trying to get a high efficiency rate with tons of resources sunk in because of it, I was just wondering if you knew. I can try in some hours but not right now, I'll do it when I get the chance though. Because I was asking about how like 70% or even 50% efficiency fairs with it. Heck, Galacticraft is still an option right? Because it has a flat 75% efficiency and is far, far easier to manage then pneumaticraft.

This array handles around 7200RF at 4:1 RF:EU with 93-94% efficiency. That's 6 pneumatic generators, 6 flux compressors, lots of speed upgrades, and an awful, awful lot of compressed iron. At a wild guess, without adding anymore pieces to the array, it would probably convert 8000 RF at around 88% efficiency, and so on.


GC iirc was more like 50% because you have to convert twice at whatever % we set it at, I forget what that was. It also suffers from the problem of requiring many machines to do the conversion, because you can only convert something like 220 RF at a time or some such. And frankly I had a lot of minor stability/bug problems with GC, although they've been mostly addressed by the gc team since then.

That is a fair point.

While I agree the problem I see is this. The progression, with bigreactors remaining as powerful as it is, would see bigreactors replace IC2 nuclear as mid game power. Bigreactors is less complicated, even with the PC conversion, and produces more power then the IC2 nuclear power train. It almost seams like the best thing to do is relegate bigreactors to a power tier below IC2 nuclear and gate access into IC2 nuclear by a material only acquired from bigreactors while simultaneously increasing the output of the IC2 nuclear power train. In this way, both mods are used to progress to end game power, both mods are required to do so, and, the crazy gap between fusion and anything else is shrunk a little. Don't get me wrong, fusion should produce double the power of anything else but right now it is an order of magnitude.

Fusion should be an order of magnitude better, otherwise its too easy to just double your fission output with another fission output

Honestly another strike against Big Reactors is that fuel is frankly a lot easier to find for IC2. You could plonk down a quarry of some sort and get a ton of Yellorite, but the energy costs of maintaining that quarry are going to cut into or negate your energy gains.

With Uranium, once you know where some is, you can mine tons of it cheaply using whatever means you like.

 

[DarknessShadow]

Honestly another strike against Big Reactors is that fuel is frankly a lot easier to find for IC2. You could plonk down a quarry of some sort and get a ton of Yellorite, but the energy costs of maintaining that quarry are going to cut into or negate your energy gains.

With Uranium, once you know where some is, you can mine tons of it cheaply using whatever means you like.

Big Reactor CAN use uranium and we could REMOVE the yellorium ore generation but I was the only one who wanted it at the time -> https://github.com/JasonMcRay/InfiTech-1.7/issues/236
(Jason disabled the use of uran in the big reactor after that)

Btw you get so much yellorium from the quarry that the energy cost to run the quarry is almost nothing (dont forget about all the other ores you will get which is why you want a quarry anyway).

The Galacticraft conversion RF -> EU is really really really easy
lol I used the GC cables to transfer RF -> RF and it lost almost 50% over a distance of 1 cable.

 

[Nickolas Wood]

I would be in favor of removing yellorium ore generation. I have simply found a crazy amount of it scattered. Now, to be fair, I haven't found many veins yet. In most packs that I play that include bigreactors, I get to a point where I am voiding yellorium as I have far too much of it and it is used slowly.

I was surprised to find yellorium at all actually. I had thought that ore generation by all other mods was disabled

Also, it carries none of the radioactive dangers that uranium carries correct? At least, it never does in any other pack. So, add to the pile of reasons bigreactors are over powered, even in this pack, the fact that the processed material is not dangerous to handle.

 

[DarknessShadow]

Also, it carries none of the radioactive dangers that uranium carries correct? At least, it never does in any other pack. So, add to the pile of reasons bigreactors are over powered, even in this pack, the fact that the processed material is not dangerous to handle.

Uran ingot don't give radiation only the uranium fuel rods do and EVERYTHING that has plutonium in it.

 

[Nickolas Wood]

Uran ingot don't give radiation only the uranium fuel rods do and EVERYTHING that has plutonium in it.

Ya, but you have to make the fuel rods to use it as a fuel so you have to deal with the danger before you get energy. Yellorium is not like this.

 

[DarknessShadow]

Have you tried using the regulator to send the fluids per/tick instead of per/second to see if it makes a difference? (dividing by 20 obviously). Unlike other machines, the Large (Generator) expects fluids at a certain rate. Also iirc you're on v25? v26 made some adjustments to this.

I've tried it now with Fluid Regulator set to 1mb/t and the liquid amount in the input hatch doesn't change at all now. (strange it should be 2,93 mb/t if the wiki is correct)

Ya, but you have to make the fuel rods to use it as a fuel so you have to deal with the danger before you get energy. Yellorium is not like this.

Yes but Big Reactor needs ingots so sadly that wouldn't change even if it used uran.