I actually sort of agree with this to a small degree. I'd prefer to see the GT stuff nudged up a tiny bit and the RC stuff toned down to match somewhere.
[1.7.10][LISTED] InfiTech 2 Modpack v3.2.21 [HQM][GregTech balanced hard-mode modpack]
- Thread starter Jason McRay
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Toned down? I am running 16 coke ovens, one 36 LP boiler and a second 12 LP boiler, a TC automated alchemy alumentum machine, several GT LV crafting machines, a turbine worth several hundred steel ingots and some smaller stuff in order to generate 200 EU/t. I really don't think that needs toning down.
I just looked up on railcraft ingame, turbine rotor is worth 99 steel ingots, not too shabby.
Yeah it took me over an hour to scrounge the steel for that thing. And its worse in the early game when you get 1 plate per 2 ingots.
I think one of the problems people sometimes have with a difficult GT pack is conflating "grind" with "waste of time", or assuming that GT players confuse grind with challenge.
With GT, the challenge isn't the grind. I'm not super excited about the grind either. The challenge is in trying to figure out and implement ways to reduce that grind.
I could take the easy route and increase the value of all power generation, or leave my computer on all night while the grind handles itself, but then I'm simply taking away that core obstacle, and I'm left with EveryOtherPack. And if other GT players can handle it, well, I think I can manage too.
With GT, the challenge isn't the grind. I'm not super excited about the grind either. The challenge is in trying to figure out and implement ways to reduce that grind.
I could take the easy route and increase the value of all power generation, or leave my computer on all night while the grind handles itself, but then I'm simply taking away that core obstacle, and I'm left with EveryOtherPack. And if other GT players can handle it, well, I think I can manage too.
I'm thinking a bit differently as of late than i used to, i mean: minecraft is huge! i want to make huge factories! but just jumping the tiers with better power generators instaid of building huge amounts of lower power (inefficient, tho efficient in this modpack i guess hehe) is a bit sad imo.
I don't want my minecraft experience restricted to 1 room, i want huge groups of chunks needing to work together to accomplish something.
When i'm building dozents and dozents of high pressure coal boilers and they are like nothing, then i can think about upgrading and mass producing something even bigger and the little i gain from a single HP coal boiler is so useless.
This way i don't have to craft new components all the time and it fits with the theme of mass production.
Only doing prototypes all the time seems inefficient. i like to streamline stuff
One thing I should mention, cuz this reminds me: nowadays I frequently go to the configs and set all the generator outputs to a flat value, say 80% (varies with type), instead of getting worse and worse with each tier. I can't quite make myself set them to 100 even though they probably should be, because I don't want to give myself a huge edge of everyone else.
But the notion that technology should become increasingly inferior grates on me. So I encourage anyone who wants to to do the same.
The inefficiency would make sense if it provided exponental power generation or something but it doesn't, only 4 times as much, so what is best then? 4 LV or 1 MV power generator? 4 isn't that much more than 1 so why bother? i see your point. But because of the inefficiency you will need like 2 MV vs 4 LV or something anyways, it's barely worth it.
Too little power difference between tiers, maybe when you are in insane voltage or something can you start replacing the basic versions or just run some other kind of power generation..
What is gregs reasoning behind the inefficient MV and HV versions of the power generators?
I like how i'm saying that the tiers are too easy to achieve when i'm still LV lol, well i'm happy with my era, no reason to go further yet, there are a lot gated behind MV but there are alternatives to most stuff anyways and i need to explore that content first.
As a side note: I managed to actually run my generators at full capacity without them getting clogged up! exploring mineshafts was fun but i had to return quickly because of full inventory and fully looted shaft so i figured i would see if i could craft some instaid after researching their cost, not too expensive. So now i'm using:
0) bronze blast furnace for steel
1) lathe steel => steel rods
2) block cutter wooden planks => slabs
3) craft with creosote bottles => tracks
4) macerator on netherrack => dust
5) centrifuge => netherrack dust twise for redstone, gold, coal and some more sulfur
Its a nice feeling.
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Whilst we're 'confessing', I hate the notion of having to power chunkloaders in single player mode - seems very silly that if you go for a walk suddenly all your machines go on hold, your plants and cows stop growing etc. I turn that fuel cost off immediately.
Originally he figured that because machines and cables are lossy, it would be more inefficient to spam them. In a sense, he's half-right: 4 LV generators may be more efficient than 1 MV generator, but its probably difficult or impossible to make 16 LV generators as efficient as a single HV generator, due to all the transformer boxes you have to go through etc.
I'm just hoping he thinks it through better for GT6, and in the meantime, Blood gave us the means to fix the problem ourselves. (Which I've forgotten to do in the last 8 versions or so,I should really do that)
I agree. Chunkloading is purely to deal with a "problem" in minecraft: we can't run the entire universe at once. Adding cost to the chunkloaders just turns it into a weird meta-game.
(But, I just pay the cost and not care much. Fuel is cheap)
I've never had a problem with that in my world, i wonder if it is the thaumcraft golems or other TC stuff that is chunk loading stuff? or my systems to basic for me to notice ^.^
Yeah, LV and MV is too close to make sense, but LV => HV is large enough for inefficiency to show, i think a larger voltage gap might be for the better.
I like taking time out and going on long exploration trips - usually a lot further than my 12-chunk render distance.
Is there another way to get an achivement on singleplayer? I mean, with gamemode 1 or config files
bc I cant get the bronze dust achivement on this version, it seems that it need gt bronze dust but
everytime you craft or get it with creative mode it changes to ic2 bronze dust,
I've tried with the normal craft (3 copper dust + 1 tin dust on inventory)
Give me it with creative
Using a mixer
Crafted it with small bronze pile dusts
Nothing seems to work..
bc I cant get the bronze dust achivement on this version, it seems that it need gt bronze dust but
everytime you craft or get it with creative mode it changes to ic2 bronze dust,
I've tried with the normal craft (3 copper dust + 1 tin dust on inventory)
Give me it with creative
Using a mixer
Crafted it with small bronze pile dusts
Nothing seems to work..
I am very much aware of that. Do you know why I went up the wall at the suggestion to increase the Plutonium cost of the RTG fuel by 9? Because there is no way at all to reduce the resulting grind. It's just a lot more prospecting and nothing else. Did I mention that's boring? If the suggestion had been "Add a component that needs to be built in an EV machine", maybe I wouldn't have exactly liked that either, but it wouldn't add grind.
Yep, I'm doing that as well. Even more, I cheat the chunkloaders in, always. I think a technical issue should not interfere with world simulation. At all.
I recall the time when chunkloaders could be crafted with four iron ingots. I guess they made them expensive because people would overuse them on servers, but I don't feel I should suffer for that.
Yes there is, and its a rather proper solution: you create fewer RTGs. That's precisely why the grind was suggested: to create a conundrum where you're faced with the decision of ignoring RTGs, creating fewer, or waiting until you have enough plutonium to create the number you want.
Exactly. If the minecraft devs could, they'd keep the entire world chunkloaded at all times. Its a restriction purely for performance reasons.
I am already not creating more than one of these clusters because mining for another 6000 iron does not appeal. Conundrum enough I say.
Conundrum enough for you specifically, that's the part you're not getting dude
Its not like the RTGs need to be acquired in clusters. Piecemeal they're dirt cheap, even if you're not getting infinite resources from bees or ic2 crops or whathaveyou. (Whathaveyou being infused crops I guess)
I'm not trying to argue here to nerf them further. Like I said, I don't care about the RTGs that much. I'm just pointing out the problems with your exact arguments. If RTGs were easier to make, then our GT experience would be wussier than the next GT pack's experience, and we wouldn't be "hard mode" anymore.
And not enough for some other people. So what? I'm beginning to resent these insinuations. We're all posting from our respective viewpoints here, and I am going from the assumption that my viewpoint doesn't count more or less than anyone else's. I was pointing out that the RTGs are NOT easy to make. At least not at a point in the game where what they give you is significant. I guess you could make it so that any gain you'd actually notice is delayed until you have enough resources to make a fusion reactor, but what would be the point of that?Conundrum enough for you specifically, that's the part you're not getting dude